Where to for Super Rugby?

[RedsHappy]

If South Africa are looking to get a team in Europe, could the cut Australian team break into Japan?

Obviously plenty of hurdles, logistical issues and far from ideal, but would it be better then the current alternative which the ARU are pushing?

In many ways a very good, creative suggestion, the only 'but' is: where are the $s coming from to fund it all (lot of travel) and the ARU wants (in its view) the desired benefit of releasing the best of the culled team's players to the remaining 4 teams so they may well block or inhibit such an innovation.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^ or alternatively the Sunwolves can play in Japan and the Australian team can play in Australia. If we contrive to have that situation come about i'd be absolutely gobsmacked.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Only thing I can say is that we have BP on about 1.5 million (est)

How can any Australian organisation (or from anywhere) afford to pay a bloke that sort of money when his "organisation" is on shit street AND he doesn't really SEEM to be doing fuckall to reverse the trend.

Bloke is like our fearless leader down in the ACT - bland.

Better and more qualified posters out there than me, so go for it

 

[Rebels3]

If South Africa are looking to get a team in Europe, could the cut Australian team break into Japan?

Obviously plenty of hurdles, logistical issues and far from ideal, but would it be better then the current alternative which the ARU are pushing?

The NPC is the best option, if that were the case. But i wont hold my breath for any action.

 

[Braveheart81]

Only thing I can say is that we have BP on about 1.5 million (est)

How can any Australian organisation (or from anywhere) afford to pay a bloke that sort of money when his "organisation" is on shit street AND he doesn't really SEEM to be doing fuckall to reverse the trend.

Bloke is like our fearless leader down in the ACT - bland.

Better and more qualified posters out there than me, so go for it

Where do you get that figure from?

It would imply that his salary has doubled in the space of two years when the overall corporate expenditure has dropped. Seems unlikely to me.

 

[RedsHappy]

Where do you get that figure from?

It would imply that his salary has doubled in the space of two years when the overall corporate expenditure has dropped. Seems unlikely to me.

IIRC his base salary was c. $850,000 pa which is still very substantial, arguably unnecessarily high, for a business that is:

- not large
- loss-making and generally remaining so
- effectively a community-oriented NFP with no shareholders per se

I regularly recruit senior executive and CEOs and I guarantee I could find numerous first-class CEO candidates that would do that job for (range) $475k-$650k base salary (plus, quite reasonably, bonus incentives if and when they fixed it).

 

[Braveheart81]

IIRC his base salary was c. $850,000 pa which is still very substantial, arguably unnecessarily high, for a business that is:

- not large
- loss-making and generally remaining so
- effectively a community-oriented NFP with no shareholders per se

I regularly recruit senior executive and CEOs and I guarantee I could find numerous first-class CEO candidates that would do that job for (range) $475k-$650k base salary (plus, quite reasonably, bonus incentives if and when they fixed it).

The last time it was disclosed (until the requirement stopped) it was $736k.

I agree with you that it is probably too high.

Worryingly, it's a lot less than John O'Neill was paid before him and also a lot less than CEOs of other sporting codes (albeit with substantially higher revenues).

You have to wonder what the parameters in terms of salary etc. were when the board sought to hire the CEO?

 

[RedsHappy]

Only thing I can say is that we have BP on about 1.5 million (est)

How can any Australian organisation (or from anywhere) afford to pay a bloke that sort of money when his "organisation" is on shit street AND he doesn't really SEEM to be doing fuckall to reverse the trend.

Bloke is like our fearless leader down in the ACT - bland.

Better and more qualified posters out there than me, so go for it

Pulver's only demonstrable success has been in Women's 7s, and, arguably but it was not in any way sustained into 2017, the Wallabies entering the GF in RWC 2015 (if not winning can be seen as a kind of secondary success which I suppose it can).

(The NRC so far is, on objective grounds, by no means a proven success; it's an experiment which at this time is showing none of its pre-stated objectives are achieved (if we judge same on Super Rugby team form after some NRC seasons so far).)

Against that there are many, many post-Pulver flops, failures, omissions and serious, highly damaging debacles all of which have been elucidated on these boards.

 

[RedsHappy]

Should Aus rugby collapse (likely) and post that when World Rugby comes here to fix it, or if there's a revolt that kicks out the living-on-another-planet ARU board, the first person I'd persuade to come out and help our revival here would be Ian Ritchie who's just announced his 2017 retirement from the England RU CEO-ship.

He gets what a genuine 'whole-of-code' development strategy needs to look like, what it actually is.

 

[Killer]

Pulver's only demonstrable success has been in Women's 7s, and, arguably but it was not in any way sustained into 2017, the Wallabies entering the GF in RWC 2015 (if not winning can be seen as a kind of secondary success which I suppose it can).

(The NRC so far is, on objective grounds, by no means a proven success; it's an experiment which at this time is showing none of its pre-stated objectives are achieved (if we judge same on Super Rugby team form after some NRC seasons so far).)

Against that there are many, many post-Pulver flops, failures, omissions and serious, highly damaging debacles all of which have been elucidated on these boards.

to me he seems devoid of ideas? I would guess it was people like Clarke who drove most of those?

 

[RedsHappy]

The last time it was disclosed (until the requirement stopped) it was $736k.

I agree with you that it is probably too high.

Worryingly, it's a lot less than John O'Neill was paid before him and also a lot less than CEOs of other sporting codes (albeit with substantially higher revenues).

You have to wonder what the parameters in terms of salary etc. were when the board sought to hire the CEO?

Just for the record, I'd be 100% OK with paying the right ARU CEO - objectively and professionally chosen with all applicable due diligence and with great qualifications in successful pro sports administration (ideally globally) - $1.0-$1.2m base pa if we recruited that way and found that person.

Versus the old school GPS, golf buddies, rugby and Mosman-down-road-from-me mateship-driven selection process we so obviously had in late 2012.

 

[Braveheart81]

Just for the record, I'd be 100% OK with paying the right ARU CEO - objectively and professionally chosen with all applicable due diligence and with great qualifications in successful pro sports administration (ideally globally) - $1.0-$1.2m base pa if we recruited that way and found that person.

Versus the old school GPS, golf buddies, rugby and Mosman-down-road-from-me mateship-driven selection process we so obviously had in late 2012.

It is my understanding that a multi-national recruitment firm specialising in C-suite employees handled Pulver's recruitment.

Can I ask if you have put yourself forward to the nominations committee for board members of the ARU? You have an obvious passion and claim to have extensive relevant experience.

 

[blues recovery]

It is my understanding that a multi-national recruitment firm specialising in C-suite employees handled Pulver's recruitment.

Can I ask if you have put yourself forward to the nominations committee for board members of the ARU? You have an obvious passion and claim to have extensive relevant experience.

Really come on . So after a global search we come up with an old school buddy of the Chairmen with no Sports Administration experience .
All I can say is whoever the multi national search company was did a terrible job and probably typical of the ARU wasted a lot of the games money when all that apparently was needed was a phone call from Hawker to his mate .

 

[Braveheart81]

Really come on . So after a global search we come up with an old school buddy of the Chairmen with no Sports Administration experience .
All I can say is whoever the multi national search company was did a terrible job and probably typical of the ARU wasted a lot of the games money when all that apparently was needed was a phone call from Hawker to his mate .

This was told to me by a guy I went to school with who works in executive recruitment and was involved in the process.

I don't know anything more than that.

 

[Gnostic]

From the Marks' piece this is the point I find very telling.


I shall give credit to O’Neill for his marketing of the best group of players this country ever had but he should remember that the likes of Eales, Horan, Little, Gregan, Roff, Wilson and most of them were in a crop that came out of a wonderfully tended garden.
When these blooms withered with age, the subsequent crops lacked the same quality because of one simple thing. The garden in which they grew had been neglected and certain vital elements in the soil had been removed. The in-house people in charge just didn’t know enough about “rugby horticulture”.


Those quoted and the others alluded to are the fruits of the "amateur" garden. What happened to the systems that when people became professional and started to get paid to play AND more importantly IMO train and practice so that outcomes declined so spectacularly?

I think Australia was very lucky to a certain extent in the late 90's early '00s in they had some once in a generation players come through the old development pathways all at once. They learned some in depth skills and were able to execute across a number of game plans and coaches. Once they were gone the outcomes declined and this decline has continued the further we get from that experience and impact that the last of those "professional amateurs" delivered. Into that mix we have injected some truly elite athletes who have managed to be a point of difference and hence the constant search for the next "X" factor player to provide buoyancy to the sinking vessel for a bit longer and the constant shuffling of coaches and struggling for improvements in outcomes when the very base remains faulty.

JON took a huge amount of credit from the transition from amateur to pro and the results in those years, but we really have to consider the results now over the long term and what his systems have delivered, even before we consider the debacle and waste of the Flowers era and the arrogance and failure of JON MKII.

 

[Gnostic]

Really come on . So after a global search we come up with an old school buddy of the Chairmen with no Sports Administration experience .

All I can say is whoever the multi national search company was did a terrible job and probably typical of the ARU wasted a lot of the games money when all that apparently was needed was a phone call from Hawker to his mate .

Perhaps it was like the selection of Deans as coach after the interviews were all completed they appointed a bloke that didn't apply and didn't interview.

 

[cyclopath]

Should Aus rugby collapse (likely) and post that when World Rugby comes here to fix it, or if there's a revolt that kicks out the living-on-another-planet ARU board, the first person I'd persuade to come out and help our revival here would be Ian Ritchie who's just announced his 2017 retirement from the England RU CEO-ship.

He gets what a genuine 'whole-of-code' development strategy needs to look like, what it actually is.

He might not get it so much when he saw the operating budget he'd get to play with, as opposed to that of the England RU. That enables him to draw a far broader flow-chart and put in place better structures. Plus, over there, they don't really have to worry so much about the health of the clubs who seem to be doing just fine, so focussing on national academies / coaching structures etc is far easier. I'm not excusing the omissions we've seen here, but it's a different beast over there. Plus, we seemingly can't afford the board we have, despite the cut backs in spending (failures aside). I doubt we'd have the coin to attract an even higher calibre candidate, unfortunately. Why the fuck would they want to do it?

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave,


No doubt if we could get everybody who lives within a reasonable distance of a club like yours to attend a few games we would be better off.


On the other hand, look at Gordon. A very accessible home ground plumb in the middle of Chatswood. Anybody who lives, shops, or works anywhere near it must know that there is something happening every second Saturday during winter.

Where are they? This would be a pretty good test case - especially given that Gordon claims to have the largest number of junior players in Australia in their catchment. Where are they and their parents?

Good points.
I'm guessing their junior players range from Hornsby to say St Leonards - the affluent private school strip.
Home ground being Chatswood in alargely asian demographic area I see reasons why it may struggle with crowds.
I think people see Chatswood as a place you go to shop, not play rugby.

 

[blues recovery]

This was told to me by a guy I went to school with who works in executive recruitment and was involved in the process.

I don't know anything more than that.

Look I don't question for a minute that an exec recruitment firm was used for "due process". My and I think a lot of Australian Rugby stakeholders problem is who was recruited and his relationship to the then Chairmen and his lack of credentials for the gig .
Then this pair go and appoint their other old schoolmate Clarke as COO.
So all the senior roles in Oz Rugby at the time just coincidentally are filled by blokes who all went to school together at Shore .
Perhaps just a coincidence as clearly the record will show they were all the best candidates .

 

[RedsHappy]

Really come on . So after a global search we come up with an old school buddy of the Chairmen with no Sports Administration experience .
All I can say is whoever the multi national search company was did a terrible job and probably typical of the ARU wasted a lot of the games money when all that apparently was needed was a phone call from Hawker to his mate .

I'll bet such a form was involved, but de facto for the sake of appearances and rather like the similar 'extensive global search' the Reds conducted for its new HC in 2016.