Where to for Super Rugby?

[NTT]

But they weren't and frankly if WA had tried to put them on in 1997 no one would have gone there

Except for the 40 000 going to the one off anual Springboks tests we used to host. And the 100 000 plus people who attended the 2003 World Cup. And the 30 000 who turned up for the Lions tour of 2002 at the WACA. The 30 000 who turned up to Perry Lakes to watch WA vs NZ in 87. Not the numbers seen in other states but our biggest stadium has been limited to 40 000 seats.
Yep, no one goes to WA.

 

[lou75]

The Victorian state government built AAMI Park to cater for the Storm and the multiple A league clubs in Victoria. It was not built in "retaliation" of or "as part of the bid" to being awarded a Super Rugby franchise. This figure of $350 million is misleading as this stadium was being built regardless to cater for existing sports teams.
Not all monies from test ticket sales goes to the ARU. There is costs associated with the venue that needs to be taken into consideration, staffing, rent etc. The Victorian government also benefits from the ancillary revenue of hosting a test such as tourism income from hotels, restaurants etc. Without knowing the exact split, the ARU would only see between 10 - 20% of ticket sales revenue and that may be a bit generous. The Victorian government would make its initial investment back first then the ARU might make a couple million more on top, so the total the ARU makes is the $5 million to host the game, merchandise sales and a bit on change from tickets. I doubt the Victorian government would host such an event if they gave away all of the money earnt using their infrastructure. Heck, the ARU struggles to turn a profit hosting a match at Homebush in Western Sydney where they get 60 000 - 80 000 attending.
I struggle to see how the ARU is half a billion dollars better off by investing in Victoria as your figures are very inaccurate and misleading. Rugby may have generated half a billion dollars of economic activity inside of Victoria but as revealed by multiple ARU financial statements, the ARU is not $500 million better off from any state. If they were, we wouldn't be having the discussion about culling a team.
If anything, your figures actually show the ARU is better off hosting the one off blockbuster test matches in Victoria rather than trying to facilitate a Super Rugby team. Theres more money for the ARU to be had from Victoria hosting a Bledisloe than there is the ARU continally propping up the Rebels and fighting the AFL for weekly exposure that the AFL can easily out spend the ARU on.
My summation most probably wont be popular amongst the Rebel Army. Backlash away.

1. AAMI park was purpose built for Rugby, Soccer and League. the timing of the announcement to build it was in advance of the ARU to select another Ruper rugby team and was done to entice them to chose Melbourne over WA.
2. Your figures re the test ticket split are frivolous in the extreme, either you dont know the split or you do and if you dont know then dont pluck some random figures out of your arse. From what I do know, the stadium is rented based on occupancy fill and I suggested an average price of $100 after those costs.
3. I didnt say the ARU was half a billion dollars better off, I said Victoria had invested about half a billion in rugby and I stand by that.
4. Of course the ARU is better off hosting the blockbuster tests in Victoria, we know how to host an event that brings bums on seats
5. Lets get the test figures over the years and see what their game revenues have been

 

[Highlander35]

Long and the short?

ARU have proven year on year that they are not only are they mismanaging things in the short term, but there is not, and never has been a serious look at the future as to how to make it better, and this holds for basically all the State Unions as well.

I'd love for it all to collapse and force a fresh start on a national level, but the wankers most likely to seize the power vacuum are Papworth and his ilk, and I can't help but feel that they are the only force capable of making domestic Rugby in this country even worse.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Killer]

I see it as a play for Andrew to make it hard for the ARU to put an offer on the table. Instead of dealing with one person, he needs to deal with four. Judging by the board profile, there is enough intellectual firepower to make the ARU shit bricks.

I would think it unlikely that Mr Cox does not still have full control. If the directors did contribute I would think it would be in the belief that Mr Cox would stay the course.
I agree with a previous Rebels poster who said Mr Cox is probably just waiting for the right opportunity to exit but still look like he did everything he could to save the Rebs.
This is the weak link in private ownership, the majority are at the mercy of one.
Hopefully all five will survive.

 

[FiveStarStu]

The Victorian state government built AAMI Park to cater for the Storm and the multiple A league clubs in Victoria. It was not built in "retaliation" of or "as part of the bid" to being awarded a Super Rugby franchise. This figure of $350 million is misleading as this stadium was being built regardless to cater for existing sports teams.

On this, Lou was actually correct. The MRS was announced as part of the 2004 bid for Super 14, before either of the A-League clubs existed.

After Victory sold out Olympic Park regularly in the first year of the A-League, they decided to continue with the plan despite the loss.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Bunnies fans still had the option to watch 6/7 other teams in their own city each week.

As for taking it well....... Their was marches down the street, people who vowed to never watch the game and the governing body was forced by the courts to re-instate them back into the competition.

Unless that was a sarcastic comment. lol then nice humor

Merely an observation that being cut by the ARU is not the end of the road.
Selling the Rebels back to them would be.

 

[Scooter]

One thing for certain the one true loser in this whole sorry saga is Australian Rugby.

One non-traditional development area will be chopped down at the knees, which will mean one junior pathway will be gone.

A large portion of fans of the club that is culled are likely to turn their back on ARU, so may not be much point in playing future Wallabies matches there. In any case it will be significantly harder to enter back into the market if they plan expansion in the future.

I also wonder about long term life of Spirit or Rising in NRC. At the moment teams include strong Force and Rebels contingent respectively. Do ARU keep the NRC team in impacted area? And if they do how competitive will they be with a predominantly local team?

Then you have pending legal actions with RugbyWA and the Rebels. So ARU will be spending money on lawyers and legal battles instead of on the game.

 

[RedsHappy]

Long and the short?

ARU have proven year on year that they are not only are they mismanaging things in the short term, but there is not, and never has been a serious look at the future as to how to make it better, and this holds for basically all the State Unions as well.

......

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Indeed, and that is why I have argued a view here that, sadly, the only catalyst for real, fundamental change in the conduct of rugby in this country will come when the unfolding disaster induced by severe, continuous incompetence is at a cataclysmic stage and the ARU is at or near bankruptcy, which is likely within 2-3 years**.

The existing code-wide institutional system for running rugby here is so sick, so consciously self-perpetuatiing and utterly bereft of accountability and real responsibility to the rugby community, there is no rational hope or basis for us to believe it will self-correct and self-repair, in a deep enough manner.

Following the cataclysm it is likely that a revival plan for the code here will be developed by the then-intervening World Rugby actively supported in that plan and its following execution by the NZRU.

(** If latest rumours are in any way correct that, insanely, the ARU and Cox are negotiating the close-down-related sale of the Rebels for the breathtakingly irresponsible figure of $6+M (and added to which will be many millions of ARU cash $s to actually pay out all residual obligations etc), the ARU's financial crisis will come sooner than I would otherwise have predicted.)

 

[FiveStarStu]

Smash the Pulverarchy.

 

[RedsHappy]

Wow, so this continues the implication that Cox is running out of money, or perhaps never had as much as he suggested in the first place?

Is this still the board? https://melbournerebels.com/about-us/board/

RY, my strong suspicion is that it is today, or recently, not so much a case of 'running out of money' by Cox & Partners but rather the realisation inside that tight circle of how far the Rebels have continued to fall commercially and playing wise and thus the considerable $Ms in investment cash that will be required for at least 3 years from 2018 on in order to have any credible chance of fixing the Rebels as a business and playing unit.

No pro sporting franchise is sustainable today (without v large ongoing cash investment) with 6-8,000 home crowds and a terrible w-l rate.

And all this whilst the ARU's forward subsidies markedly decline.

It's the larger-than-ever-planned projected future capital requirements that will if anything get Cox to the ARU's poisoned table. (Elsom has openly stated that the ARU has made a material cash offer to buy the Vic license back.)

However, if the Vic Govt comes to the party with significant financial support as a new source of subsidy for Cox, his attitude to what action is now best may change.

 

[kiap]

Smash the Pulverarchy.

Totally.

De-cline the Clyne.

 

[RedsHappy]

Smash the Pulverarchy.

It'll all come to nothing though if the QRU and NSW RUs don't want their ARU mates and kith and kin out coupled with these bodies' perceived threat to their own RU positions if the ARU board changed radically in culture or type of director.

The interlocking system for maintaining directorships on the ARU and the larger State RUs is generally one of 'mutually assured protection from removal, public criticism, or the need for accountability, responsibility-taking and transparency.'

 

[cyclopath]

It'll all come to nothing though if the QRU and NSW RUs don't want their ARU mates and kith and kin out coupled with these bodies' perceived threat to their own RU positions if the ARU board changed radically in culture or type of director.

The interlocking system for maintaining directorships on the ARU and the larger State RUs is generally one of 'mutually assured protection from removal, public criticism, or the need for accountability, responsibility-taking and transparency.'

M.A.D.
Mutually Assured Degustation.

 

[RugbyReg]

Voting rights as follows:

o one vote for each Member Union
o one vote for each Super Rugby team as a condition of their licence
o one additional vote for each Member Union with more than 50,000 registered players (for a maximum of one additional vote)
o one vote for the Rugby Union Players’ Association.

• Australian Capital Territory Rugby Union = 2
• New South Wales Rugby Union = 3
• Northern Territory Rugby Union = 1
• Queensland Rugby Union = 3
• South Australia Rugby Union = 1
• Tasmanian Rugby Union = 1
• Victorian Rugby Union = 2
• Western Australia Rugby Union = 2
• RUPA = 1

Assume participation numbers in ACT, VIC and WA are still below 50,000?


16 votes all up of which NSW and QLD control 6.


I think any special resolution requires 75% of the votes cast by members.


That's 12 votes needed.


RH is right. Any substantial change needs at least one of QLD or NSW to flip.


Bugger.

 

[Killer]

RY, my strong suspicion is that it is today, or recently, not so much a case of 'running out of money' by Cox & Partners but rather the realisation inside that tight circle of how far the Rebels have continued to fall commercially and playing wise and thus the considerable $Ms in investment cash that will be required for at least 3 years from 2018 on in order to have any credible chance of fixing the Rebels as a business and playing unit.

Sure smells like a money issue to me.
He, it seems hasn't even approached the Vic Govt.
He must know that even if he can get a Govt sponsorship he is still going to be out of too much money to bother continuing.
The size of the ARU offer is probably a small lotto win for him in what was looking to be cascading into a financial disaster.
Hard to know but he sure isn't giving off any positive signals. I doubt the ARU would have put a figure on the table unless they knew something or had already spoken to him.

 

[NTT]

1. AAMI park was purpose built for Rugby, Soccer and League. the timing of the announcement to build it was in advance of the ARU to select another Ruper rugby team and was done to entice them to chose Melbourne over WA. And to cater for other sports. This is still money not spent for the exclusive benefit of the ARU as you stated. It took 7 years before Rugby Union had anything to do with the stadium and the stadium was going to be built anyway.
2. Your figures re the test ticket split are frivolous in the extreme, either you dont know the split or you do and if you dont know then dont pluck some random figures out of your arse. From what I do know, the stadium is rented based on occupancy fill and I suggested an average price of $100 after those costs. Your analysis of the test ticket prices are also frivolous and extreme and without base. You dont know the exact split either so that tells us youve pulled your numbers from "out of your arse" aswell. Also, as youve stated the venue is rented. Rented from the Victorian government, not the ARU.
Once again, no benefit to the ARU.
3. I didnt say the ARU was half a billion dollars better off, I said Victoria had invested about half a billion in rugby and I stand by that. Your whole statement was that Victoria had rescued the ARU with a half billion dollars worth of investment. Justify your original statement, dont shift the goalposts.
4. Of course the ARU is better off hosting the blockbuster tests in Victoria, we know how to host an event that brings bums on seats. Parochialism at best, assumption at worst. You are also neglecting the fact that Victorian Rugby, or as you put it, the saviours of the ARU, are piggy backing off the work of cricket and AFL to get a 100 000 seat stadium built. The MCG was not purpose built for Rugby, we just benefit from borrowing it.
5. Lets get the test figures over the years and see what their game revenues have been. So you want to compare attendances and profit/loss of hosting events in different size stadia? Hows that going to back up your statements that Victoria has invested $500 million into the ARU and that Victoria should be seen as the ARUs saviours?[/quote]


I understand you are anxious about the future of the Melbourne Rebels. Hell, us Force fans are in the same boat next to you. I just dont understand why you need to make such misleading and outlandish statements about how the ARU "owes" Victoria for a "half billion investment" that was never actually made to the ARU. There are plenty of real facts that Melbourne and its supporters could use to justify their inclusion in Super Rugby, like the long term benefits of growing the player base through grassroots in Victoria, that make the case much better than saying "the ARU owes Victoria half a billion dollars".

 

[FiveStarStu]

Sure smells like a money issue to me.

He, it seems hasn't even approached the Vic Govt.

He must know that even if he can get a Govt sponsorship he is still going to be out of too much money to bother continuing.

The size of the ARU offer is probably a small lotto win for him in what was looking to be cascading into a financial disaster.

Hard to know but he sure isn't giving off any positive signals. I doubt the ARU would have put a figure on the table unless they knew something or had already spoken to him.

He has approached the Victorian Government, they met last week. The Sports Minister has given tepid approval to assistance in return for a public show of support.

 

[KevinO]

The price is going up daily, read 9 Million today.

 

[Twoilms]

Man, i thought that things were bad when it came out that a team being cut was imminent. The speed of our descent has been so much faster than i had anticipated. There have been no demonstrations of even vague competence or leadership. The nature of the ARU's failures must be straddling the line over which lies civil negligence.

 

[Jon]

we might finally find out some more after this EGM that was voted on earlier this afternoon