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Where to for Super Rugby?

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ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
The salary cap actually means movement however, look at the MacKenzie brothers. Both from Invercargill, now play for the Chiefs.

Look at the Highlanders championship squad, was players from all around the place playing for them as it seems that they were given the tip off it was the place to be (however that was done, monetary or verbally telling them to go) despite the fact it was a basketcase a few years before. Don't tell me the NZRU didn't have anything to do with it. Look at that initial squad and the NPC teams associated with them, not too many in the Otago & Southland catchment zones.
2015-squad-announcement-without-captains.jpg


This is talent equalisation at its best and it won a championship. Lima Sopoaga moved from Wellington down to Southland to get a game, when in the past there would be very little luck getting a lad from the North to come down.

The days of "protecting" players within the catchment are over. Direct contracting is occurring, allowing for greater player movements.
 
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James Pettifer

Jim Clark (26)
Lou75, you must admit your rant was quite ludicrous and irrelevant as an argument relevant to keeping the Rebels.

BLR, don't take the bait.

What the fuck is with you guys? Quite obvious directing your anger at each others franchises will win you no fans. The ARU is the enemy, not the Force/Rebels.

How about joining forces to start more Brumbies rumours - it is quite funny watching Slim293 run in and hose each and everyone of those down.

Ok, I'll have a go ...

We have to drop a team. Can't drop the privately owned Rebels. Can't drop the force due to the signed agreement. So that only leaves the brumbies.

They have less than $1.5 million in cash. Have been losing around $1 million a year. Are being investigated by ASIC. Have crowds only slightly better than the Rebels and the Force but have been materially more successful- if they had the recent record of the Rebels then crowds would be lucky to hit 5000. Is by far the smallest of the cities involved. Hasn't had a decent test match in years and I am sure that their mascot smells funny.

You are right. That was fun.
 
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Leo86

Guest
Rant start

WTF there seems to be an abundance of money/support to save the Rebels/Force but according to the ARU Super Rugby is unsustainable. Maybe you are just absolute F****N USELESS C***S Who couldnt organise a root in a brothel. Im ashamed you call yourselves the ARU when your F****N HOPELESS and need to refer to yourselves as DUMBSHITS.

Rant over

Sorry
 

Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
did anyone hear that melbourne brumbies has been trademarked


Nothing for the "Southern States Brumbies" either.

No one fucking trademark it. The last thing we need is for the ARU to see reason and merge the Rebels / Brumbies only to have Shiggins / Dismal / Inside Shoulder / Gnostic / (insert GAGR fanatic or zealot here) hold the ARU ransom for the trademark.

On the ARUs reasons to cut a team - its almost entirely financial, with not much of its reasoning finding itself within performance.

If the Rebels and Force shore up their finances to the point of being more than sustainable into the long-term, does this mean they'd reconsider their opinion? Can they even reconsider their opinion?

I think the definite answer is no given SANZAAR would tear them a new one but if anyone thinks otherwise feel free to share why.
 
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Leo86

Guest
Thats the overall problem. It never mattered if they could be made to be sustainable. The (and i hate referring to it) so called ARU sold out big time. They cant pull their heads out of their own ass. If in any way a loss of team could some how actually jeopardised their team/s it never would of considered it and vetoed straight away. Unfortunately they use the name ARU but have never once thought to represent it, hence our current situation.

I wish i had the answers but sorry im just full of passion
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
Across almost all metrics, apart from history, the ACT doesn't deserve to have a Super rugby team (or, at the very least, no more claim to a team than Melbourne or Perth).
Going back a few pages... But this can't stand. I get it: Australia having to cut a team sucks. I want us to stay at five teams: Australian teams have been in half the grand finals since expansion, and won a third of them. We've won the Tri Nations, the Rugby Championship, went up to second in the world for a time, and came third and second at two World Cups. The 2011-2015 period is clearly our most successful since the 1999-2004 period.

But to take this out on the Brumbies? Utterly rediculous. And this will no doubt be a rant, but I'm tired of seeing people say that cutting the Brumbies could be preferable to cutting either of the expansion teams.

First of all, dismissing history is a bad idea. It's a proven record of turning decent club players into good (often great) Wallabies. Besides 1998, 2008, and 2011, it's a constant presence in or around the finals. It's more finals appearances and titles than any other team in Australia. Second to the Crusaders, it's the team which has beaten the most Australian teams in finals games. And that even applies recently; since 2011, they've been the best Australian Super side in three of the six seasons, and it came down to a tie-breaker in one of the three they weren't. They've made the finals in four of those six seasons, making a final and two semi-finals. This season? They're top of the Australian conference and have taken at least a point from all but one of their games (i.e. 90%). The rest of the conference? Reds at 55%, Waratahs at 50%, Rebels at 50%, and Force at 40%. So, in Super Rugby, the Brumbies are alongside the Reds and Waratahs as the flagbearers for Australian rugby.

What about translating that to the international level? How many players from each side started for the Wallabies at some point in 2016?
1) Brumbies 10
2) Waratahs 8
3) Reds 6
4) Force 4
=4) Rebels 4

But that might be deceptive, it could just be that the Brumbies recruited a group of established Wallabies. No, they didn't, they turned club players into test players. Let's talk about players who had their test debut since 2011, and which team they were playing for. It breaks down to:
1) Brumbies 16
2) Reds 13
3) Waratahs 11
4) Rebels 8
5) Force 6

So, in terms of translating Super performances into the test side, the Brumbies are the side to look to, especially at taking club players and making them test players.

But they're the team to look to for performance in Super Rugby, and for producing test players. But what does that matter if nobody is turning up? Isn't this a business, no point keeping the Brumbies if nobody turns up and nobody is watching. Well, look at the attendence. Despite having the lowest population, they're third in terms of attendence-per-game in Australia:
1) Reds 16,100
2) Waratahs 15,008
3) Brumbies 10,025
4) Force 9,231
5) Rebels 8,446

And what about TV viewership? Of the recorded ratings (i.e. those that are above 10k), they have the second highest number watching per-game, with all of their games recorded:
1) Waratahs 69,125
2) Brumbies 53,100
3) Reds 49,888
4) Force 47,666
5) Rebels 42,444

Imagine having to sell the Brumbies, Force, or Rebels to an advertiser. For the Brumbies, you can say "I can get 2.8% of the population to the event, and over 50,000 people watching around the country.". For the Force, you can say "I can get 0.4% of the population to the event, and a little under 50,000 people watching around the country.". For the Rebels, you can say "I can get 0.1% of the population to the event, and a little over 40,000 people watching around the country.". Tell me, which one of those sells?

This isn't a go at anyone, this isn't a "the Brumbies are perfect" post. I just want to put to bed the idea that the Brumbies are a basket case that are hurting Australian rugby. They're not, and it's right to take them out of the conversation of which team to cut. And a merger is a cut by another name.
 

lou75

Ron Walden (29)
Wayne is all over it:
"Victorian government issues $14m threat to save Rebels"

now I hope the other state governments will be onto this vile treatment and reassess their relationship with the ARU if the Victorian team is cut.
 
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BLR

Guest
Wayne is all over it:
"Victorian government issues $14m threat to save Rebels"

now I hope the other state governments will be onto this vile treatment and reassess their relationship with the ARU if the Victorian team is cut.

Why would other governments care about a team being cut in Victoria?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Wayne is all over it:
"Victorian government issues $14m threat to save Rebels"

now I hope the other state governments will be onto this vile treatment and reassess their relationship with the ARU if the Victorian team is cut.
Has the Vic government already paid that money to the ARU?
 
B

BLR

Guest
I think it's a wider issue of not being able to trust them

I think that ship has sailed well and truely long ago and would happen no matter who, if anyone gets cut.

As for the money issue, I know that the ARU went in the meeting with RugbyWA telling them the Force will be cut because of some understanding that the Vic government were going to pay them X amount for the British Lions & Bledisloe far off in the future, despite no concrete deals being done. If the Vic government can pull the funding for this I would be thinking these fund haven't been paid or signed off on.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think that ship has sailed well and truely long ago and would happen no matter who, if anyone gets cut.

As for the money issue, I know that the ARU went in the meeting with RugbyWA telling them the Force will be cut because of some understanding that the Vic government were going to pay them X amount for the British Lions & Bledisloe far off in the future, despite no concrete deals being done. If the Vic government can pull the funding for this I would be thinking these fund haven't been paid or signed off on.
Yeah,but if that's right why are they worried the ARU will spend Victorian money to euthanise the Rebels? Money they don't yet have.
Unless they are locked into paying it already - but their hood faith argument sounds weak: try probably never contemplated tat therebels could be at risk of extinction.
 
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BLR

Guest
Yeah,but if that's right why are they worried the ARU will spend Victorian money to euthanise the Rebels? Money they don't yet have.
Unless they are locked into paying it already - but their hood faith argument sounds weak: try probably never contemplated tat therebels could be at risk of extinction.

My understanding is much of this future money is handshake agreements, RugbyWA actually said when this was told to them they could seek to match these agreements to save the Force.
There must be significant pull however as these agreements were seemingly the main justification to take out the Force that was presented to RugbyWA, even if they weren't contracted at the time.

EDIT: Unless they are talking in the past with the $14 million dollars.
 
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