Where to for Super Rugby?

[Omar Comin']

To sum up, for a professional domestic rugby competition to go anywhere, it would have to be based on 10 or 12 most traditional and recognisable clubs.

Nah, it'd be based around the 5 fully professional franchises we already have.

The rest of the teams could be existing clubs with the backing to go to the next level, new teams, or maybe even teams from Asia or the Pacific.

 

[half]

wow 5,000 post from 5/3/17 in about 10 weeks 500 post a week.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think Sir Humphrey would be most impressed with the one Foxtel comms have designed especially for our Super Rugby coaches:

'Dew on the pitch tonight has really contributed to all the handling errors we've seen'.

Yes, I can see why after 20 years of playing super rugby matches at night that dew would be something unexpected.

Imagine that, dew on the ground in the evening in winter. Who'd have thought?

As an aside, I've always found it interesting that professional footballers (league, union and AFL) play most of their games at night, but training is during the day in the heat. At the same time, amateur players of the same codes play all their matches during the day, but train in the evening when there is (shock, horror) dew on the ground.

 

[dru]

Interesting / Fair / Can it happen?
My biggest concern here would be - could the players suffer by none payment?

As Wamberal points out, its a scenario not a strategy. Somewhat pedantic on a site like this where few true strategies would be laid out, but You'd hope a group like the ARU are doing their jobs closing the difference between the two.

Or somethingelse. Something. Anything.

 

[stoff]

If these idiots in Melbourne think that the game of rugby owes them anything, they are deluded.

How much money did the 13 tests in Melbourne (including 3 sold out Bleds in Australia's biggest stadium, and three sold out Lions tests) in the professional era make the ARU. How much has the Vic government tipped in to attract these events. How much money have Victorian fox subscribers helped increase the games revenues by? Given the hammering ARU revenues take in World Cup years, I would say tens of millions. It would massively outweigh what extra the Rebels have been funded the past five years (and remember we are only talking about the extra over, not the base payments), and the VRU over the past 20 odd. Seems like everyone was happy to take our cash. Who pissed away the rest of the money we contributed. It wasn't us.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Quick Hands]

How much money did the 13 tests in Melbourne (including 3 sold out Bleds in Australia's biggest stadium, and three sold out Lions tests) in the professional era make the ARU. How much has the Vic government tipped in to attract these events. How much money have Victorian fox subscribers helped increase the games revenues by? Given the hammering ARU revenues take in World Cup years, I would say tens of millions. It would massively outweigh what extra the Rebels have been funded the past five years (and remember we are only talking about the extra over, not the base payments), and the VRU over the past 20 odd. Seems like everyone was happy to take our cash. Who pissed away the rest of the money we contributed. It wasn't us.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ARU are experts at pissing money up against a wall, but it's also an insult they like to fling at others who are far more responsible with funds.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Excerpt from an interview Steve Tew gave before leaving to attend the RWC draw in Kyoto:

"Among a series of sitdowns in Kyoto, where the World Cup pool draw would take place on Wednesday, Tew hopes to receive a detailed update on where his Australian and South African counterparts have got to with their already agreed decision to reduce Super Rugby by three teams for next year and beyond.

"That will see one Australian and two South African sides drop out of the competition, though neither national union has provided any detail yet around who those teams may be.

"Already in Australia there has been the threat of legal action from the Force and Rebels franchises identified as being the contenders for axing, and earlier this week the ARU's chief operating office Rob Clarke resigned suddenly, further clouding the issue of just who would drop out of the competition.

"In South Africa the Super Rugby remake is also a political hot potato.

""It is in their hands, but at the very least we'll be looking for a very firm update," Tew told the Star-Times.

"Asked whether Australia's unstable political climate around rugby and their ongoing troubles on and off the field were a concern for New Zealand, Tew said: "The work we're doing to get to the 15-team competition will be a topic [in Japan], but I don't comment on what's going on with the Australian Rugby Union. It wouldn't be appropriate."

"Questioned whether the reduction to 15 teams remained on course, he added: "We haven't heard otherwise.""

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...inalised-super-rugby-scenario-still-up-in-air

 

[mst]

Can you be a little more specific? I did not say that we do not need a professional component, did I?

And as an outsider, this kind of sums up the attitude that seems to prevail south of the border towards the game of rugby.

If it does, you deserve to fail, and you will fail. Rugby in Australia is not a business. It is, at heart, an amateur game, with a little bit of professional icing.

Amateurism is primarily about love of a game. You people do not seem to love the game. You seem to want to exploit it.

What part of professional sports is not a business?

So Super Rugby franchise are not business? No wonder Cox is pissed. What did he buy, a charity?

Even Shute Shield has became a business to sustain itself and some of the clubs. They directly exploit what they have to keep them going.

I hate to break it to you but the ARU has been a business for a long time. The profit and loss sheets should have been a clue.

Wow! we have really entered the irrational desperate out of touch realm here.

 

[mst]

To sum up, for a professional domestic rugby competition to go anywhere, it would have to be based on 10 or 12 most traditional and recognisable clubs. The others, their players and their supporters, would presumably just fade away into the sunset.

It might be viable as a stand-alone entity, but it is mind-boggling to think that it would generate much excess revenue. And, by the way, the chosen clubs would still rely heavily on volunteers at all levels, amateurism in action.

So you mean something like the manufactured teams in a standalone competition like the big bash wont generate much of a following or income?

 

[Quick Hands]

Excerpt from an interview Steve Tew gave before leaving to attend the RWC draw in Kyoto:

"Among a series of sitdowns in Kyoto, where the World Cup pool draw would take place on Wednesday, Tew hopes to receive a detailed update on where his Australian and South African counterparts have got to with their already agreed decision to reduce Super Rugby by three teams for next year and beyond.

"That will see one Australian and two South African sides drop out of the competition, though neither national union has provided any detail yet around who those teams may be.

"Already in Australia there has been the threat of legal action from the Force and Rebels franchises identified as being the contenders for axing, and earlier this week the ARU's chief operating office Rob Clarke resigned suddenly, further clouding the issue of just who would drop out of the competition.

"In South Africa the Super Rugby remake is also a political hot potato.

""It is in their hands, but at the very least we'll be looking for a very firm update," Tew told the Star-Times.

"Asked whether Australia's unstable political climate around rugby and their ongoing troubles on and off the field were a concern for New Zealand, Tew said: "The work we're doing to get to the 15-team competition will be a topic [in Japan], but I don't comment on what's going on with the Australian Rugby Union. It wouldn't be appropriate."

"Questioned whether the reduction to 15 teams remained on course, he added: "We haven't heard otherwise.""

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...inalised-super-rugby-scenario-still-up-in-air

He's too smart to get involved in the problems of Aust and SA.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

• Is there a pathway?
• What is the pathway?
• Is there a way to hop on the path?

These questions relate to a wrath of threads I've posted on / in.


As if the pathway is grand, our Wallabies can be to. But I feel because the pathway has been neglected rugby at the varying levels down from the Wallabies is now feeling the pinch BIG TIME.

I honestly believe the 2 best pathways in Australia at present relate to the Force & the Rebels - and cudos to both of them.

Here is a question and I'm guessing the answer.
Q. In the starting 13 of all NRL teams what % of players went through the public high school system?
A. I'm guessing greater than 70%.
So I ask the questions - is public high school on the radar because the talent is there.

Don't disagree Dave and actually think that Club --> NRC --> Wallabies is the pathway I favour. For the underage rep teams in WA we've got club and school players competing, which I also favour.

What I mean about the Wallabies being the primary product is that we're an international sport, just like cricket. The Aussie cricket team is our primary product, even though the BBL is also a part of it. The Shield makes no money but is an important pathway for blokes playing at the elite level. I see the NRC or a variation of it being the future. I'd even be happy if we kept the Force, Rebels, Tahs, Reds and Brumbies and augmented the comp with say QLD and NSW Country, plus a PI team.

 

[mst]

He's too smart to get involved in the problems of Aust and SA.

Tew has got 18 months to play it cool then watch him sweat - and what we and SA do will determine the fate of the Kiwis.

The travelling side show the All Blacks have become, have been used by the Irish in the US as a quick payday for the AB's but a market in the US for the Irish, the French are about to do the same with a game in the UAE late this year. So another sideshow payday for the NZRU.

NZRU have the BIL then the Poms, then the RWC, so they are banking on the coffers being filled pre 2020.

From 2020 their fate rests with us and SA and if we go domestic orientated and with Super Rugby (whats left of it) as a supplementary product, SA do similar but also go play in Europe the AB brand will be confined to a small market.

But they will have the money so they can fund the SANZAAR venture as they will need it more than anyone as being trapped in the Kiwi market would be almost fatal.

 

[dru]

Don't disagree Dave and actually think that Club --> NRC --> Wallabies is the pathway I favour. For the underage rep teams in WA we've got club and school players competing, which I also favour.

What I mean about the Wallabies being the primary product is that we're an international sport, just like cricket. The Aussie cricket team is our primary product, even though the BBL is also a part of it. The Shield makes no money but is an important pathway for blokes playing at the elite level. I see the NRC or a variation of it being the future. I'd even be happy if we kept the Force, Rebels, Tahs, Reds and Brumbies and augmented the comp with say QLD and NSW Country, plus a PI team.

If we default to a Domestic comp, call it NRC if you want but it will be different. A full season for one thing. Talent through the current Soup teams needs to be spread. In NSW you have to turn to the SRU and offer them the chance to determine a couple of teams. Let them bring through traditional clubs if that is their wont. But however it works it needs their buy in.

Forget PI (and Japan) unless fully funded. That means the domestic teams have funds to fly there as well as the o/s team being self perpetuating.

Small steps. Its going to be a huge transition as it is. Pipe dream probably.

 

[RedsHappy]

wow 5,000 post from 5/3/17 in about 10 weeks 500 post a week.

Means: Passion Index to Save Australian Rugby = 10/10

A Very Good Thing

 

[cyclopath]

Which they have both played their part in creating.

A small part, in truth - I'd be reluctant to sheet home too much blame on them. The genesis of our current problems goes back way further than the influence of either of these guys. They may not be helping it, but the vast majority of the blame lies with neglect of proper coaching structures, systems and pathways over the past 10-15 years. Brief successes have glossed over the gaping holes too much.

 

[Quick Hands]

A small part, in truth - I'd be reluctant to sheet home too much blame on them. The genesis of our current problems goes back way further than the influence of either of these guys. They may not be helping it, but the vast majority of the blame lies with neglect of proper coaching structures, systems and pathways over the past 10-15 years. Brief successes have glossed over the gaping holes too much.

Absolutely agree. It wasn't my intention to give them any more than their fair share of blame.

They just happen to be left holding the parcel when the music stopped.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Did I miss anything in the last hundred?

Yes.
It turns out that we are in a feedback loop based on a book by Joseph heller called "fair catch 22".
A bloke called milo has sold all the teams in return for shares in a circus which will move from st Leonard's to Moore park.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If we default to a Domestic comp, call it NRC if you want but it will be different. A full season for one thing. Talent through the current Soup teams needs to be spread. In NSW you have to turn to the SRU and offer them the chance to determine a couple of teams. Let them bring through traditional clubs if that is their wont. But however it works it needs their buy in.

Forget PI (and Japan) unless fully funded. That means the domestic teams have funds to fly there as well as the o/s team being self perpetuating.

Small steps. Its going to be a huge transition as it is. Pipe dream probably.

True, but you have to start somewhere I guess. We need a circuit breaker on this whole palaver or there will be permanent damage to the game at all levels.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

True, but you have to start somewhere I guess. We need a circuit breaker on this whole palaver or there will be permanent damage to the game at all levels.

You'd think so - it really is beyond belief that we are limping along with no clue as to the future.
Maybe the ARU boffins in Kyoto have done a runner and they won't be back?

 

[RedsHappy]

Michael Lynagh: Puts the boot into SANZAAR big time and further stresses the growing prowess of rugby in England in terms of crowds, viewership, systems etc (extract):

Wallabies great Michael Lynagh slams SANZAAR for Super Rugby mess​

Christy Doran, FOX SPORTS​

May 9, 2017 2:21pm​

​

FORMER Wallabies captain and respected rugby pundit Michael Lynagh has taken aim at Super Rugby’s governing body SANZAAR for announcing structural changes to the competition mid-season.​

​

It’s now been a month since SANZAAR announced that Super Rugby would be cutting three of its franchises — two South African and one Australian — for 2018 and returning to a 15-team competition.​

​

But the changes have proved more complicated than anticipated with the Rebels and Force — the two Australian franchises on the chopping block — digging their heels in and threatening legal action against the ARU.​

​

SANZAAR officials will meet in Tokyo on Friday and the ARU will be asked to report on their culling progress.​

​

The messy state of affairs has harmed the credibility of both Super Rugby and the ARU while the domination of New Zealand teams has exacerbated the competition’s problems.​

​

In an interview with foxsports.com.au, London-based Lynagh — who with former All Blacks captain Sean Fitzpatrick analyses Super Rugby for Sky Sports each week — slammed SANZAAR for its lack of foresight and leadership in expanding to 18 teams in 2016.​

​

“It was just wrong from the start,” said Lynagh, a 1991 Rugby World Cup winner and Australia’s all-time leading Test pointscorer.​

​

“We’re all for expansion, but it just wasn’t ready and it was ill-thought out from the start.​

​

“I get asked continually in the streets: ‘which team is going to be cut?’​

​

“Nobody’s talking about how the competition is going except: ‘aren’t the New Zealand games great?’​

​

“What we used to have with the Super 12 and Super 15 was a great competition.​

​

“You’d play a home and away on a yearly basis.​

​

“You’d play all the games very quick, a very good standard, you’d have a playoff and then a final and it was done in one go.​

​

“Now you have a break for the international tour, and who knows what happens when you come back, and you’ve got this convoluted points scoring system — that nobody understands — where you don’t get the best teams in the finals.​

​

“It’s just craziness.​

​

“Then you have Japan, who couldn’t decide whether to give it to Tokyo or Singapore, so they (Sunwolves) play in both so their home games are spread across the two countries.​

​

“It’s just ludicrous.​

​

“How are they supposed to get home support going when they’re travelling every week?​

​

“Then you have one South African conference that doesn’t play a New Zealand team and you have the Blues, who are last in the New Zealand conference, that play half their matches against New Zealand teams.​

​

“I just find it bizarre that they’ve got to this stage.​

​

“And now mid-season they’re deciding: ‘let’s change it.’​

​

“They’ve sort of procrastinated over this decision when they could have made a decision in the off-season and done it then.​

​

“I don’t understand it at all — it’s just such a mess that it’s been allowed to get to this.”​

​

While Super Rugby is struggling — particularly in Australia and South Africa — the English Premiership is going from strength to strength.​

​

Attendance numbers have increased by 10 per cent and TV audiences by 13 per cent, according to statistics revealed by Premiership Rugby this year.​

​

And on the back of an improving player development and pathways system, Lynagh believes English rugby will now enjoy a period of great success.​

​

“It’s a difficult and a long season (in England), but yes it is (getting stronger),” Lynagh said.​

​

“The conditions change from when it (Premiership) first starts in September and then you go into winter and it’s quite attritional in some cases.​

​

“But with the advent of very good pitches over here... a lot of them having hybrid artificial and grass... you’re starting to get some better quality rugby even in winter months.​

​

“The competition has a lot of good players and it’s going very well.”​

​

Lynagh has a unique insight into England’s rugby landscape having played for Saracens in the 1990s and his son, Louis, now representing the national under-16 team and a member of the Harlequins academy.​

​

“When I look at England at the moment — the senior team are doing very well — I go down to what I see at the Harlequins academy and Saracens academy and all those things that my son’s involved in and the quality of the rugby and the players in all those academies, even at the under-16 level, is outstanding.​

​

“And then you think England have won the last two under-20 World Cups, they’re starting to get it right over here.​

​

“We’ve always said that if England with all their resources and all the players that they’ve got, if they ever get their structure right they’ll be incredibly good.​

​

“And I’m here to tell you that they have, because I can see it from under-16 up and it’s pretty strong and it’s not going away.​

​

“Whereas down in the southern hemisphere, apart from New Zealand, we seem to be going the other way.”​

​

​