Where to for Super Rugby?

[ChargerWA]

Agreed. Make a decision and live with the consequences. I am sick to death, wishing the worst for the fellow Aussie teams and their fortunes. Only 10weeks ago I was loving watching all Australian teams and wishing each and everyone of them the best. I am sure most force fans probably think the same in that they are tired of wishing the rebels the worst. I just want to go back to watching Australian rugby and collectively rejoicing in their success as well.

And just like that the ARU are winning. They have managed to drag this thing so deep in the gutter loyal fans are ready to give up. I feel exactly the same way, and I bought a share in the Force only a month ago. If this isn't resolved in the next 10 days just shut them both down, they're going to have no players left. Wonder how many of our off contract guys have quietly agreed to terms overseas while the embargo on signing new contracts is in place. This is their fucking job, they need to pay their mortgages and feed their kids, if they weren't looking for something solid for next year they'd be dumb.

 

[dru]

From what I understand SARU have not made an official announcement either. Why would it only be the ARU that gets a bollocking from SANZAAR?
Maybe the Aussies & Saffas will get a scolding from NZ & Argentina?(OK, maybe simplifying it too much) but why is the pressure on the ARU to make a decision and not South Africa?

SARU have every indication of being able to handle their cut. Yes it's early days and the problems will build. There are just starting arguments between different fans about amalgamating Gauteng, others around EP amalgamating with West Cape. Or Durban. Or Bloenfontein. Growing recognition that the Kings might be the second best team in SA right now.

SARU have a timetable, for now they are on it.

ARU had a timetable, aggressive timetable, but no apparent way of doing it. What is happening here is we fans are speculating that the ARU may not be able to execute the cut. There is no such suggestion, yet, in Africa.

 

[Dave Beat]

It's a bit of both, Dave. Chicken and egg.


Some players go offshore just for more money, like Timani, even though he was an established Wallaby with a pretty good contract, presumably.


Some like Brock James just did not look like cutting it here, even though he was an established first grader with the Golden Club.

There are hundreds of players offshore, and hundreds of different reasons, I would guess.



What counts is that there is a lot more money there than here, and in a free market, the weight of money always wins.


Watching Eastwood yesterday, it struck me that the game is becoming more and more suited to people other than white boys like me. We are not tough enough, frankly!

Look at the players like Allalatoa, Digby, with the Crusaders.
Nandalo who was one of the best wingers in Soup after he couldnt progress here. There is plenty of potential off shore, and in a number of cases they are better players than some of the boys in Soup now.

 

[BLR]

Nandalo who was one of the best wingers in Soup after he couldnt progress here. There is plenty of potential off shore, and in a number of cases they are better players than some of the boys in Soup now.

He got a kick in the ass going overseas I would say. He was super lazy when he played here, I wouldn't say that is a fault of the system, more a fault of the man.

 

[Highlander35]

At this stage, is Australian Rugby not better off abandoning Super Rugby, allowing full overseas selection, and creating a 10-12 team league for developmental, depth and domestic broadcast purposes, aligned Calender wise so its players can also play in the Japanese Leagues if they choose to do so?

No.

But we're not far away from it.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[BLR]

At this stage, is Australian Rugby not better off abandoning Super Rugby, allowing full overseas selection, and creating a 10-12 team league for developmental, depth and domestic broadcast purposes, aligned Calender wise so it's players can also play in the Japanese Leagues if they choose to do so?

No.

But we're not far away from it.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Judging on the quality of rugby shown during the NRC, if they advertised it correctly then yes, I would say it is a much better product in Australian than Super rugby.

We can't play our traditional running rugby game in Super Rugby when the Kiwi's will smash us every day of the week at it, so we resort to boring rugby to try and be competitive.

 

[kiap]

No.

But we're not far away from it

18 months away from it, or so?

That's when they're going have to start re-heating the supe deal.

It's going to be a watery old soup.

 

[wamberal]

Actually some Shute Shield games are better to watch than the Soup when an Aussie team is involved.

 

[RoffsChoice]

We can't play our traditional running rugby game in Super Rugby when the Kiwi's will smash us every day of the week at it, so we resort to boring rugby to try and be competitive.

I actually think the alternate rules of the NRC are hurting us here. I know a few potential converts who went down to some Vikings games, had a good time, but were confused by the differences when they went out to Super games. And the changes have alienated a lot of core fans, too; I see bigger crowds at most Royals and Wests games than NRC games.

Yeah, a lot of games that come down to trading penalties and five-minute scrum battles can be boring as hell (Wallabies 6-France 0 comes to mind.........), but who would say that Ireland-England this year was boring? And the boring games don't go away at those levels just because the NRC has different rules. Meanwhile, we're really making a lot of potential fans confused and pushing a good portion of the core away from the NRC.

 

[BLR]

Yeah, a lot of games that come down to trading penalties and five-minute scrum battles can be boring as hell (Wallabies 6-France 0 comes to mind.), but who would say that Ireland-England this year was boring? And the boring games don't go away at those levels just because the NRC has different rules. Meanwhile, we're really making a lot of potential fans confused and pushing a good portion of the core away from the NRC.

I would say that the World Rugby official rule set doesn't match the skill set Australian players generally have. At least if we played amongst ourselves we would get at least a few good games out of it that matches what Australian audiences like watching.

And who knows, maybe if we don't play our main opposition so many bloody times we can perhaps show them something they haven't seen before and get a W for once.

 

[Rebels3]

Judging on the quality of rugby shown during the NRC, if they advertised it correctly then yes, I would say it is a much better product in Australian than Super rugby.

We can't play our traditional running rugby game in Super Rugby when the Kiwi's will smash us every day of the week at it, so we resort to boring rugby to try and be competitive.

We haven't played running rugby for 20 odd years. Somewhere in that time our play turned into choreographed rugby with some fancy looking set plays. Instinctually our players are close to the worst in modern rugby. I grew up and participated in many of the current pathways that have produced most of the current crop of players. Our training sessions no matter if it was school, clubs, representative or development camps were run around set play after set play, after set play, after set play, we get the idea. This worked brilliantly when defenses focused on slightly moving forward but drifted. Then we had a change around 2011 when defenses started to press and very aggressively press, this caused huge issues with the choreographed plays that were based around 5 phase plays where everything was planned to the extreme. Suddenly you were under extreme pressure to perform set plays, despite having less time to execute and opposing players basically standing in your attacking line, but we blindly kept the faith with our plays as that's all we knew. By 3rd phase generally balls were starting to be thrown behind the man, knock ons were happening etc as the defensive presence was immense. Often all that was needed was for someone to play what was in front of them every now and then and space and holes open up in the rush defense.

Anyway long story short, the single biggest issue with aus rugby is philosophy. Somewhere along the line during the 1980s to 2003 we went from innovativors as our philosophy to a religious like blind faithful commitment to immense structure.

Coaching needs to be invested first and foremost and taught with the modern game in mind, not 2003. Its no wonder the 3 teams that have suddenly declined in quality (SA, FRA and AUS) are the 3 that have failed to embrace the modern style of the game, it's only been this season South African sides look like rectifying this and strangely enough they look better for it. The lions over the past few seasons are the greatest example of it.

There is skills, athleticism and talent in the game. It's just the top few inches that is letting us down, the brains trust is failing how to teach players how to execute rugby in 2017, because they are being taught how to execute in rugby 2003

 

[ChargerWA]

I would say that the World Rugby official rule set doesn't match the skill set Australian players generally have. At least if we played amongst ourselves we would get at least a few good games out of it that matches what Australian audiences like watching.

And who knows, maybe if we don't play our main opposition so many bloody times we can perhaps show them something they haven't seen before and get a W for once.

I would say that's giving us too much credit. Our skill set is just worse than NZ. The only way it's different is we do the same things with less skill and urgency. Playing amongst ourselves will disguise it until the first Bledisloe.

I still think we should pull out of Super Rugby, but it's a long game strategy to try and broaden the base. But make no mistake, were so deep in the hole we're probably going to fall out of the top 6 teams internationally for the next 10 years.

 

[BLR]

I would say that's giving us too much credit. Our skill set is just worse than NZ. The only way it's different is we do the same things with less skill and urgency. Playing amongst ourselves will disguise it until the first Bledisloe.

Hey, ignorance is bliss right? If the AFL can say they are the best game in the world and the MLB say they play in the world series. Let's just fake it until we make it, getting our faces rubbed in the dirt every occasion doesn't help our losing culture.

Is it any surprise since Super Rugby kicked into gear Australian rugby has slowly been losing what made it great?

 

[RoffsChoice]

Is it any surprise since Super Rugby kicked into gear Australian rugby has slowly been losing what made it great?

I'll disagree with that completely. The Brumbies were absolutely glorious during Super 12, but I think most people would agree that Australian rugby has gotten better since then.
Hell, during Super 14, the Waratahs made the finals three times! And remember that three-way tie between the Brumbies, Bulls, and Sharks for 4th in 2006? This was a seriously tough competition, and you only have to look at the quality of sides that the Force were finishing above to remind yourself that they weren't underperformers.
And with the expansion, the Rebels were really inconsequential, and we saw our three foundation teams go to finals, two of them winning for the first time.

Super Rugby has given us some of the best rugby and players this country has ever seen. 2016 and 2017 have been bad, but you didn't see South Africa pull out of the comp when they went the entire decade of Super 12 with only two finals appearances and zero titles.

 

[BLR]

I'll disagree with that completely.

Yet our World Cup triumph's (which at the end of the day is the main thing we should be aiming for) came out of a brilliant amateur era set up. A few good performances against the odds but since the amateur era started and Super Rugby began, there has been a very steady decline.

 

[RoffsChoice]

A few good performances against the odds but since the amateur era started and Super Rugby began, there has been a very steady decline.

We'll agree to disagree, I don't put that on Super Rugby.

 

[Twoilms]

Blows my mind A league is outstripping Super rugby for popularity. Both these teams would lose to a 5th division Scottish side. Terrible, terrible stuff.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[TOCC]

Sacking the leadership would be a good start, would it? Who do you imagine would be interested in taking on their roles? To say that anybody who is silly enough to take the job (s) on would be on a hiding to nothing would be the biggest understatement of the age.


And, by the way, exactly who would do the sacking, and who would do the attempted recruitment of the next bunch of lemmings?

Yep, as i thought Wamberal, you think we should maintain status quo...

 

[wamberal]

What I think is immaterial. I have already said what I would do in the extremely unlikely event that I took on the role of Australian Dictator of Rugby (which, by the way, is the only possible mechanism to change some aspects of the game - meaning, those aspects which are under our control).



Even if a Dictator were to be appointed, that would still leave 70% or more of the success or failure of the game in external hands.


The status quo will not be maintained. Things will get worse.


Does that make you happy?

 

[I like to watch]

Some whispers that the ARU are trying to buy back the Rebels $5-7 m now the selling price range.
I would suggest that even if the ARU could buy back the Rebels licence, they still need a unanimous member vote to cut them and the VRU would never agree to it.
The members control the ARU in this instance, not the other way around, (and this is something that Pulver doesn't comprehend and why he is in this shithole)
On anther thought, the ARU only have $3.6 m profit this financial year. (I think that was the figure) and to blow it on this exercise is unbelievable
Further, it would be interesting if forensic accountants could add up the total amount of money that the ARU ended up paying the Rebels over and above the team costs and regular funding that Tahs / Reds got.

I can absolutely see the ARU paying out $6M, then being amazed that the VRU veto it!
Someone get a film crew in there & do a fly on the wall doco.
It will be hilarious!