Where to for Super Rugby?

[blues recovery]

BTW Kiap do you know if any other team that has had to sell their soul when getting assistance from the ARU.
The Rebs who have received ivo 20 mil?
The Tahs in their 2 bailouts
The Reds in their 1 bailout
The Brumbies in their 1 bailout

The WF had a need for a bailout and iot ensure it is not needed again have put plans in place eg Own The Force
What have the other teams done?
What about the 7mil debt the Reds apparently have?

Clearly the WF have not been treated fairly here. We needed 1 bailout in 12 yrs and that won't happen again. The continued talk of the WF being a financial drag on the ARU is completely untrue. We can pay back our bailout now, have any of the others besides the Brumbies done so?

Anyway can't elaborate got to go and do the school run, then rugby training

Sorry can't let this post go without correcting your 20 million statement re Rebels
ARU payments to the Rebels that exceed those to other Super teams over the journey would tally well less than half that .
Not denying it's still a shit load but is dwarfed by what they cost Harold Mitchell who didn't even like the game !!

 

[TOCC]

They shouldn't have a vote then, just the same as the Union doesn't have a board room vote in a Corporation but they certainly have a consultancy role.

They shouldn't have a voting right, its stated so within principle 1.8 working the Australia Sport Commisions governance guidance. It was a token gesture, dilutes voting power and in effect gives more strength to the ARU.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They shouldn't have a voting right, its stated so within principle 1.8 working the Australia Sport Commisions governance guidance. It was a token gesture, dilutes voting power and in effect gives more strength to the ARU.

I prefer your original "risk feature" and wanted to know if it was to remove or create risk

 

[RedsHappy]

RUPA has had its power eroded within Australian Rugby since 2012, prior to the Arib review RUPA held a seat on the board of the ARU, this was removed and appointed as an independent director. RUPA were then given 1 of the 16 votes offered to members unions. Scott Bryant at the time commented that this diluted power of all members and in the process consolidated power within the ARU.

The same ASC principle which stated RUPA should be removed from the board also stated that the Chairman should be separate as well, this didn't happen and Pulver is a director on the board.

I tend to think that the ARUs willingness to exclude the Brumbies from the list of teams been considered for the chop was to shift the balance of power. Special resolutions require a 65% vote, and with Tasmania, NT and SA in their pocket already(check ARU Annual report for debtors), they only need a few more votes from either QLD, NSW or ACT to ensure they have a voting block to prevent any EGM resolutions.

Sick culture, sick system, sick modus operandi.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sick culture, sick system, sick modus operandi.

I tend to think that it can't be reformed. I'm really at a loss, the whole system is geared to preserving the rights and privileges of those in power and ensuring that there is no mechanism for peaceful, orderly change.

We're really in the realm of pre-revolutionary France in terms of the disconnect between the ruled and the rulers and just as the privileged elite in France had made peaceful and orderly change impossible, the rugby elite have done the same here.

Unless someone has other information to the contrary there would seem to be no internal mechanisms for those not on the various RU boards to have any opportunity to do anything. And as all board vacancies are either filled by board appointed casual vacancy or unopposed "election". There doesn't even seem to any process whereby any ordinary rugby member can nominate themselves for office (if there is such a process it is such a well-guarded secret, that it might as well not exist).

In view of the foregoing, only a situation where the ruling elite are swept aside by external action can result in change.

 

[Boomer]

I am sure.

ARU acquires Western Force’s IP rights, but denies it’s a rescue​

​

The Australian: February 18, 2016​

Bret Haris​

The ARU has acquired the intellectual property rights of the Western Force, including their Super Rugby licence, in a deal believed to be worth $800,000 in an effort to help the franchise out of financial difficulty.​

​

… Sinderberry acknowledged that the ARU’s buyback was financial assistance for challenges the franchise was facing.​

​

“It actually doesn’t mean a lot because we have an option to buy back at any time. That’s the most important thing,” Sinderberry said. “It was a way of assisting us with some funding challenges and also it protects the game more broadly. …​

​

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...e/news-story/22beb2a88c0918d22a5b466bd5d167a0​

​

I cannot tell you how much I love this. The lawyers will weasel their way through it, but here it is, for all to see ...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I tend to think that it can't be reformed. I'm really at a loss, the whole system is geared to preserving the rights and privileges of those in power and ensuring that there is no mechanism for peaceful, orderly change.



We're really in the realm of pre-revolutionary France in terms of the disconnect between the ruled and the rulers and just as the privileged elite in France had made peaceful and orderly change impossible, the rugby elite have done the same here.



Unless someone has other information to the contrary there would seem to be no internal mechanisms for those not on the various RU boards to have any opportunity to do anything. And as all board vacancies are either filled by board appointed casual vacancy or unopposed "election". There doesn't even seem to any process whereby any ordinary rugby member can nominate themselves for office (if there is such a process it is such a well-guarded secret, that it might as well not exist).



In view of the foregoing, only a situation where the ruling elite are swept aside by external action can result in change.

Yes I think many of us dreamed of change and that there might be a saviour or white knight riding to the rescue but the model is so broken and cronyism and old boys club ruling the roost over rugby seems as inevitable as rugby's continue decline.

Many now want after this fiasco a revolution and major change - and just solid leadership. But no contenders seem to be emerging and the damage financially this latest fizzer has done and is doing now with crowds well down - can only see this getting worse.

Use to hold onto dreams of 10 year plan....now I just see a forthcoming decade of gloom ahead for professional rugby in this country.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes I think many of us dreamed of change and that there might be a saviour or white knight riding to the rescue but the model is so broken and cronyism and old boys club ruling the roost over rugby seems as inevitable as rugby's continue decline.

Many now want after this fiasco a revolution and major change - and just solid leadership. But no contenders seem to be emerging and the damage financially this latest fizzer has done and is doing now with crowds well down - can only see this getting worse.

Use to hold onto dreams of 10 year plan..now I just see a forthcoming decade of gloom ahead for professional rugby in this country.

Professional rugby in this country is now in grave danger of extinction. There is no reason to believe that having 4 franchises will be any more profitable than having 5.

 

[Cpt Crow Eater]

Not denying it's still a shit load but is dwarfed by what they cost Harold Mitchell who didn't even like the game !!

You know I have forgotten about this bloke in all this discussion.

There were a few comments earlier about potential re-entry of the Force or Rebels after the current 2020 broadcast deal is complete.

But tell me how we are ever going to get backers and private investment in the game ever again when the ARU decides 5 or 6 years later it's gonna to completely evaporate your time and money.

I was always against it initially, but I think the only way for a strong game into the future is to put every Rugby man with money together in a room and ask them what kind of national comp THEY want to see.

Make it like the A League. Every team is privately funded. They're in charge of their pathways for recruitment. It's in their best interests to grow the pie and a bigger financial return.

Perhaps we could have our top team play off against the winners of the other club comps in the world. Brisbane v Saracens or Toulon or something similar.

Fuck, in Germany the company Red Bull took a 5th division licence of a defunct Leipzig club, pumped 100 million Euros into it and 5 years later they're qualifying for champions league......

Would I give a fuck if my team was called the Coca Cola Adelaide Falcons and our shirts were in the shape of fucking coke cans if it meant Adelaide had a team made out of ZERO South Australians but was kicking arse as a team? Fuck no!

Despite the controversy, the people of Leipzig don't give a shit about the Red Bull connection. Despite the problems in East Germany they finally have a kick arse team to support. They have sell out stadiums and are up there with Bayern Munich in terms of revenue and results.

Now i'm just rambling...... I have not thought this through one iota.

I'm just so angry, sad and annoyed at the incompetence of the ARU that I think now the only way for us as a code in Australia to survive is to leave Super Rugby and start from scratch in some form or another. I want an end to this shit where half of the rugby fans in Oz don't watch our premier club competition or can't tell you the names of the any of the teams.

I'm frustrated that club games can get 4000 people but the NRC struggles for air time and fans.

I want every Aussie fan on the same page, invested in the same competition and finally together cheering on the Wallabies at the end of it....

Sorry for the rant........

 

[blues recovery]

I think a lot of us feel your pain

 

[TOCC]

I'm certain at different points in time Australian Rugby has occasionally had the right people, so where's the disconnect?

Peter Cosgrove, from 2012:

"If we want to be the best rugby nation in the world not just at the elite level but as a community game we can't circle the wagons," he said.

"We've got to be as creative and energetic as we expect our players to be.

"This is not a time for old men in blazers to say, 'not on my watch.'

"We've got to make sure the governance of the game is appropriate and suitable and serves the very elite level of rugby, the Wallabies and the Super Rugby (competition) right down to the little kids running around.

"Now is a really important time to get out governance right so every dollar we gain ... we invest properly and wisely and effectively back into rugby.

"They (rival codes) are out there and they're very aggressive and we've got such a great game, we want to say, 'and we've got a great governance.'"

 

[brokendown]

like sands through the hour glass,these are the days of our lives

 

[mudskipper]

BTW Kiap do you know if any other team that has had to sell their soul when getting assistance from the ARU.
The Rebs who have received ivo 20 mil?
The Tahs in their 2 bailouts
The Reds in their 1 bailout
The Brumbies in their 1 bailout

I believe the Brumbies are the only club to pay back their loan

 

[Killer]

Sorry can't let this post go without correcting your 20 million statement re Rebels
ARU payments to the Rebels that exceed those to other Super teams over the journey would tally well less than half that .
Not denying it's still a shit load but is dwarfed by what they cost Harold Mitchell who didn't even like the game !!

At this stage its neither here nor there, I just gave the figure because I did not know how many bailouts the Rebs had had.
The figure I quoted of 20mil given to the Rebs comes from WF people in relation to the 28mil extra that Clyne mentioned was given to all the Teams since 2012.
I cannot verify the figure but have read in SMH by GeeRob that, including this years expected -2mil, the amount given to the Rebs was 15.8mil. So it's seems as though it's a min of 15.8mil but Clyne has refused to give the breakdown which suggests to me it is probably right as he wants to get rid of the WF.

Real reason why the Force are getting boned
All that said these are imo just justifications to cull a team and specifically the WF. The real reason is because if a team has to go Foxtel wants it to be the WF. I posted this thread detailing it, from TWF, some pages back but maybe no one bothered to read it? Again I cannot verify the comments.

Read the posts from LMSC http://twf.com.au/showthread.php?t=38764

 

[Killer]

I believe the Brumbies are the only club to pay back their loan

yes I said that further down in the post

 

[mudskipper]

yes I said that further down in the post

In a very rounbadout way... Credit to the Brumbies call in ASIC they paid back the ARU

 

[BLR]

In a very rounbadout way. Credit to the Brumbies call in ASIC they paid back the ARU

This didn't make sense to me. Are you giving credit to the Brumbies for calling ASIC on themselves for their own dodgy dealings?

 

[Runner]

What may be missing is what Cricket found in the 1970's a Packer to shake up the place and cause that revolution.
It will not come from within the system as it would be an act of suicide for those in the system to change it substantially.

 

[Omar Comin']

I was always against it initially, but I think the only way for a strong game into the future is to put every Rugby man with money together in a room and ask them what kind of national comp THEY want to see.

Make it like the A League. Every team is privately funded. They're in charge of their pathways for recruitment. It's in their best interests to grow the pie and a bigger financial return.

I basically agree with this. I also think it could be beneficial if the ARU just focused on the Wallabies and the grassroots and left the domestic professional game to some independent body (representing the clubs) to run. Like how it works in England and France.

 

[kickedmyheight]

I'm certain at different points in time Australian Rugby has occasionally had the right people, so where's the disconnect?

Peter Cosgrove, from 2012:

"If we want to be the best rugby nation in the world not just at the elite level but as a community game we can't circle the wagons," he said.

"We've got to be as creative and energetic as we expect our players to be.

"This is not a time for old men in blazers to say, 'not on my watch.'

"We've got to make sure the governance of the game is appropriate and suitable and serves the very elite level of rugby, the Wallabies and the Super Rugby (competition) right down to the little kids running around.

"Now is a really important time to get out governance right so every dollar we gain . we invest properly and wisely and effectively back into rugby.

"They (rival codes) are out there and they're very aggressive and we've got such a great game, we want to say, 'and we've got a great governance.'"

The problem as I see it is that when we have the right people in place it is a happy accident rather than a result of a well functioning process. So unfortunately, when the right person has been at the top, they haven't had the right people or mix of people around them because the system is not fundamentally geared towards finding these people. The system rewards the cronyism and so the cronyism flourishes.

As has been said, there is little point hoping for change from within, as those within directly benefit from the status quo. Unless there is a wave of egalitarianism that flows through the power chambers, those in power will cling to whatever personal benefit they can eek out, even as Rome burns around them.

The only chance for true reform will be some kind of external pressure. We should be exploring this option to see what we the people (the actual rugby fans) can do to exert this pressure. Or influence someone who can exert this pressure for us.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk