Where to for Super Rugby?

[Killer]

Argentina was included as they're a full member of SANZAAR now -- hence the acronym addition. Japan was included largely at the NZRU's behest as Super Rugby needed a final team to bring the competition up to 18 teams. IIRC the only other option was another SA team, which not even SARU wanted.

Also, the fairness argument doesn't seem to cut it for the competition itself (deciding matches and guaranteeing finals spots based on geography, to the detriment of the NZ sides), so it certainly won't cut it in the board room.

EDIT: The NZRU have also only been the most powerful member of SANZAAR for the last few years. Prior to that it was SARU dictating terms (additional teams, reduced travel, guaranteed positions etc.). So if you are going to argue on fairness, then it should be SARU who should suffers. And they certainly are suffering -- both for their own earlier mistakes and as the ANC's beaten housewife.

All teams & countries have good, bad and better times.
NZ is as responsible as every other member for the situation the competition finds itself in.
If the competition needs to make very very difficult cuts NZ should share in them equally too.
Two members having to chop off limbs for the benefit of all does not seem to me to be a recipe for longevity.

Edit: btw do you think the NZRU and the NZ media would be so sure that this is the only solution and has to go ahead if one of their teams needed to go also. I think not, and I am sure we as a group can come up with a better and more sustainable system without destroying Australia's Rugby growth areas.

 

[Boomer]

I think this would be foolish by the ARU. They will just further galvanise the WF, the Public and the Govt. Money will not be a problem with the "us and them mentality"
The ARU cannot continue to be seen as unfair in the way they are judging the sustainability criteria, their credibility/reputation is extremely important.
Any court case discovery procedure could be very harmful in ways they probably do not even know.

If the ARU is the ultimate old boy's club, the airing of dirty laundry is the stuff of a TV miniseries.

I hope the Force takes them all the way. I'll donate another grand for the entertainment value.

 

[zer0]

All teams & countries have good, bad and better times.
NZ is as responsible as every other member for the situation the competition finds itself in.
If the competition needs to make very very difficult cuts NZ should share in them equally too.
Two members having to chop off limbs for the benefit of all does not seem to me to be a recipe for longevity.

Edit: btw do you think the NZRU and the NZ media would be so sure that this is the only solution and has to go ahead if one of their teams needed to go also. I think not, and I am sure we as a group can come up with a better and more sustainable system without destroying Australia's Rugby growth areas.

Those two members were also the ones to insist upon adding more limbs to themselves, for various reasons. Aside from the occasional spot of hot air from NZ Texas (Taranaki), there's been no desire within NZ to expand upon the five foundation sides. To pinch a mantra that's popped up a few times in this thread, "last in, first out".

 

[Killer]

Those two members were also the ones to insist upon adding more limbs to themselves, for various reasons. Aside from the occasional spot of hot air from NZ Texas (Taranaki), there's been no desire within NZ to expand upon the five foundation sides. To pinch a mantra that's popped up a few times in this thread, "last in, first out".

ok, that's The Sunwolves, Jags and Kings

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If the competition needs to make very very difficult cuts NZ should share in them equally too.

What should NZ do to solve this problem? Why? How do they have any blame?
if the ARU turned up in London all those weeks ago and said nope we're keeping 5 teams they might have been able to bargain to a better solution which they could actually implement. Instead they gave every one what everyone wanted - in particular NZ - for nothing in return.

Without trotting out something "transcending and legally superior and predominating", RugbyWA have the option to buy back the IP rights.

Do you mean the RugbyWA have a call option on the IP rights?

 

[Killer]

What should NZ do to solve this problem? Why? How do they have any blame?
if the ARU turned up in London all those weeks ago and said nope we're keeping 5 teams they might have been able to bargain to a better solution which they could actually implement. Instead they gave every one what everyone wanted - in particular NZ - for nothing in return.

yes I said that in my first post

I blame our Management and Board for this lack of foresight in allowing this to happen as it has. No innovation, no backbone just lazy.

Edit: are not NZRU involved in all SANZAAR decisions

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Edit: are not NZRU involved in all SANZAAR decisions

Yes - but everyone, I gather, has a power of veto.
Nothing can happen except by total agreement.
So the ARU could block all moves.
The fact that they were ignorant of the potential consequences is mind boggling but that they agreed without extracting something for their agreement shows they don't know much about negotiating.

 

[Killer]

Yes - but everyone, I gather, has a power of veto.
Nothing can happen except by total agreement.
So the ARU could block all moves.
The fact that they were ignorant of the potential consequences is mind boggling but that they agreed without extracting something for their agreement shows they don't know much about negotiating.

Yes, but the thrust of my argument is that if NZ was also in the position of having to cut a team it would suddenly not seem to be the only viable solution to the competitions problems.
I am sure with the combined brains of Rugby people there is a very good solution out there that does not entail killing off Aus rugby growth areas.

 

[Blue]

The Commentary Box is a veritable cornucopia of excreta - Kafe and Kearns like some dew, but often become more viscous as they focus on their various parochial fascinations; Clarkieeeee likes plain old spittle; Marto favours dribble; the rest something more purulent.

In contrast Joel Stransky absolutely laid into the Bulls over the weekend during live commentary. Refreshing.

He actually sounded angry. Basically said that their is nothing they should not take to the drawing board. From top to bottom. He ripped into the coaches for their terrible attack.

Probably got wrapped on the knuckles by the producer but good on him.

Mehrts started criticising the Tahs this week on Fox but host McCargill quickly interrupted him.

 

[Twoilms]

Yes, but the thrust of my argument is that if NZ was also in the position of having to cut a team it would suddenly not seem to be the only viable solution to the competitions problems.
I am sure with the combined brains of Rugby people there is a very good solution out there that does not entail killing off Aus rugby growth areas.

We've been through what should've happened way back before what actually happened. 3 x 6 team conferences should have been tried. Should have been the format from the beginning of the expansion.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes, but the thrust of my argument is that if NZ was also in the position of having to cut a team it would suddenly not seem to be the only viable solution to the competitions problems.

No doubt - but you're implying some lack of morality in their indifference to our self sourced plight.
They have more than enough quality players.
They have central contracting.
They have money by the shitload.
I don't understand their Super teams to be financially troubled.
They have limited relevant european defections because the Black Jersey trumps short term $.
As a result, one thing is for sure: there was never any suggestion of them having to take any step to secure their future at the meeting in London.

 

[Killer]

We've been through what should've happened way back before what actually happened. 3 x 6 team conferences should have been tried. Should have been the format from the beginning of the expansion.

yes, read all that. Hopefully that will end up being the outcome for next year.
Though I am not hopeful with the NZRU pushing the cull now and unlikely to change tack while they have no skin in the game and perceived financial benefits.
ARU should be talking to SANZAAR about options, I wonder if they are?

 

[Killer]

No doubt - but you're implying some lack of morality in their indifference to our self sourced plight.
They have more than enough quality players.
They have central contracting.
They have money by the shitload.
I don't understand their Super teams to be financially troubled.
They have limited relevant european defections because the Black Jersey trumps short term $.
As a result, one thing is for sure: there was never any suggestion of them having to take any step to secure their future at the meeting in London.

yes it is of our own doing.
There is no reason in the short term we cannot do some of the above. This is the type of crisis that could bring about the required changes if we had good leadership.
Bill is clearly not the man but maybe Clyne is?
He should be pushing back up to SANZAAR (NZRU) and also putting it all on the line to NSW and QLD about what has to happen.
It's a shit sandwich but make the most of it and lead. Which imo does not include killing off growth areas, we need them.

 

[kiap]

Bill is clearly not the man but maybe Clyne is?
He should be pushing back up to SANZAAR (NZRU)

Everything about Clyne, including his own words, tells you he is not the man to do that.

The gray man, par excellence.

Pulver at least got a few things done at the start of his tenure, but he is likely to be gone sooner than later - and fair enough given the monumental stuff up at the ARU.

Clyne should really be joining him in the departure lounge.

 

[Twoilms]

Everything about Clyne, including his own words, tells you he is not the man to do that.

The gray man, par excellence.

Pulver at least got a few things done at the start of his tenure, but he is likely to be gone sooner than later - and fair enough given the monumental stuff up at the ARU.

Clyne should really be joining him in the departure lounge.

Going to be scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel for any business execs willing to take control. Who wants to try and save a dying sport that has little money and no public good will left, for what i imagine would be comparatively little money.

 

[RedsHappy]

In contrast Joel Stransky absolutely laid into the Bulls over the weekend during live commentary. Refreshing.

He actually sounded angry. Basically said that their is nothing they should not take to the drawing board. From top to bottom. He ripped into the coaches for their terrible attack.

Probably got wrapped on the knuckles by the producer but good on him.

Mehrts started criticising the Tahs this week on Fox but host McCargill quickly interrupted him.

Astute post Blue.

This is one of the attributes of Foxtel's attitude to covering the code here that I find contemptible and more importantly against the code's real interests.

Namely the overwhelming and obvious editorial policy in their rugby coverage to be 'positive and upbeat' regarding just about everything in game or general rugby coverage despite truckloads of evidence to the contrary and even evidence right before their and our very eyes that manifestly highlights serious problems within the code here as to crowd levels, playing standards, player behaviour and all such like.

It's their patronising (to us as fans) fallacy that, should they not mention the hard truths of what is really there and going on but rather hide the mediocrity and blindingly obvious negatives, somehow we will as viewers listen slavishly to their tone and be fooled that all is really quite rosy in the rugby garden after all and so we will thus keep happily buying Foxtel subscriptions, keep watching avidly, and keep feeling 'really positive about Australian rugby' just like they do (on screen that is).

How deluded are they, their de facto deceitful commentary is if anything alienating to a viewer who has even half a clue about the game.

My recent personal favourite was when N McCardle was opening the Foxtel commentary re a Rebels game in Melbourne and he stated 'there's a big, really good crowd gathering here tonight' and behind him were obviously nearly empty stands and they pretty much remained that way up to KO.

His statement was just complete bullshit that he must of known was such.

 

[RedsHappy]

If the ARU is the ultimate old boy's club, the airing of dirty laundry is the stuff of a TV miniseries.

I hope the Force takes them all the way. I'll donate another grand for the entertainment value.

Can you imagine if Wikileaks did a number on the ARU's emails and core files.

I suspect most of the board and senior management would be gone within days.

 

[Quick Hands]

Can you imagine if Wikileaks did a number on the ARU's emails and core files.

I suspect most of the board and senior management would be gone within days.

Someone needs to put a call in to the Ecuadorean Embassy.

 

[RedsHappy]

Nah. Will they go quietly?

Without trotting out something "transcending and legally superior and predominating", RugbyWA have the option to buy back the IP rights.

...........

You sure?........and if so at what price?

If you are right, and the price for that buy-back is a moderate one, and assuming the ARU after bailing out the Force wanted to keep proper control over its acquisition of them, then such a clause would be beyond stupid as in a scenario wherein the Force could simply by formal agreement buy back the IP/IP rights then that alone in isolation may still not see them be able to revive themselves as a whole operation on a solid financial footing and thus, post reacquiring the IP rights, the Force could easily, with history repeating, lurch back into needing yet another ARU bail out.

 

[Blue]

His statement was just complete bullshit that he must of known was such.

I'd love to as the likes of Kearns and co what they REALLY think and how frustrating it must be to not be able to speak their mind. The post match analysis is predictable drivel.

I'll look out for Kearns at the shops. We seem to hang around the same supermarket from time to time, making important dining decisions. I normally have the urge to run my trolley over him but this time I'll try and speak to him and then run the trolley over him.