Where to for Super Rugby?

[BLR]

You obviously haven't seen the underground bunker built beneath their new palatial headquarters.

I am surprised a Hitler 'Downfall' parody clip hasn't been made as of yet.

 

[Moono75]

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think many of us have known rugby has been in trouble for some time in this country in terms of direction and how managed and hoping some white knight or knights would emerge to save or salvage our game. Sadly none seem forthcoming as no rich benefactors or rock star administrators knocking at our door. Even the rusted on are now raising the white flag. I use to go to a couple of tahs games per season but gone to none this season and probably won't go to any. I am not even sure I will watch the reds vs tahs clash live on foxtel. Probably will just record so can flick through if another low quality game. So sad where we have got to.

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[Inside Shoulder]

ABC reporting a decision is still "several weeks away"

 

[No4918]

ABC reporting a decision is still "several weeks away"

Unbelievable. They went from a few days out to 2 months. They must by now realise they have grossly mismanaged not just this situation but rugby for some time. If they don't have that level of self reflection and analysis the game is truly fucked.

 

[dru]

Unbelievable. They went from a few days out to 2 months. They must by now realise they have grossly mismanaged not just this situation but rugby for some time. If they don't have that level of self reflection and analysis the game is truly fucked.

At any rate, they are not likely to have missed the public's growing belief in their mis-management.

Far from self reflection I imagine them checking the robustness of their sinecures then hunting for a) plausible deniability, thin will do fine; b) scapegoats, I can think of a couple of deserving targets to start with.

 

[sidelineview]

Unbelievable. They went from a few days out to 2 months. They must by now realise they have grossly mismanaged not just this situation but rugby for some time. If they don't have that level of self reflection and analysis the game is truly fucked.

Fear can do that to you. Fear of legal action and saving their own skins.

 

[TKO]

Fear can do that to you. Fear of legal action and saving their own skins.

That is true its the legal side they are worried about. Its a disgrace, stressful for the club officials, players, fans. Everyone wants to know whats happening. They made the big statement that teams will go, alright well whats happening ? This dragging on is ridiculous.

 

[blues recovery]

They have shown throughout this process that they have absolutely no regard for any of the stakeholders in the game,fans , players , sponsors , staff etc .
I'm struggling to find any words to define my disgust at the clowns in suits .
I just hope that whatever is left of the Rugby loving Australian public after this farce never forget the names Pulver , Clarke and Clyne as the architects of the games demise .

 

[RedsHappy]

I'm quite sure it's the legal preparations and machinations that are preoccupying the ARU.

Before Clyne totally disappeared from view - after his infamous declaration that 'we must do more communicating (as the ARU)' - he referenced something along the lines of how careful he needed to be as '......we now have legal proceedings.....'.

My own guess is that ARU's lawyers are working on how to use (a) the substantively reduced planned size of the Super comp and related broadcaster agreement variations (the ARU has already leaked this manoeuvre to journos in the Force context) and (b) more specifically the ARU's now ownership of the Force's IP as the basis for their refutation and rebuttal of the clause that endorses and seemingly ensures the Force will be in the Super comp until 2020.

The ARU legal plan may well be to argue: 'OK RugbyWA you push that 2020 clause, that's just fine, but we have the transcending and legally superior and predominating right to withhold use for all Force IP in such a context so you will not be able to operate at all once and if we negatively enforce the IP use rights clause.'

This could be a sound legal and procedural tactic as it locks the situation up with no party able to move commercially or operationally into 2018, and this type of outcome would definitely suit the ARU as below.

Such a more or less legally stalemated situation will be used by the ARU to say that the Force 'has nowhere to go, it cannot legally operate without the IP rights licensed back to it by the ARU so your only option is to commence negotiations with us for a graceful close-down with player contracts paid out, etc.'

 

[John S]

How many players should be in each Super squad?
How many teams should we have in the NRC?
How many lunches can ARU board members attend each month?

Hmm, might need some more time to think about this. Maybe we can build a giant computer to figure it out.

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But will it take seven million years to work it out, only to be destroyed minutes before producing it by the ARU/SANZAAR?

 

[Gnostic]

They have shown throughout this process that they have absolutely no regard for any of the stakeholders in the game,fans , players , sponsors , staff etc .

I'm struggling to find any words to define my disgust at the clowns in suits .

I just hope that whatever is left of the Rugby loving Australian public after this farce never forget the names Pulver , Clarke and Clyne as the architects of the games demise .

I agree with the sentiment but this failure has been far longer in the making than PUlver and Co. They are just the latest in the line of insular appointees to the ARU that have been complicit in the failure of Australian Rugby.

The fact is since Professionalism the system in Australia has been flawed but due to a few key reasons, not the least being the self interested nature of each of the parties involved in the ARU (ie. the States and RUPA) the system has never achieved the reform needed. JON for all the massive plaudits he gets for the success on field between 96-03 (which is in large part inherited from the players of the old amateur system and the influence) he did Sweet FA to actually drive real change and make the systems 1) Sustainable in the long term 2) Drive genuine growth (not just in pro pay packets and management) 3) Implement real governance reform with transparency and accountability.

Pulver is incompetent and has been shown to be out of his depth, and has done nothing to address the issues raised above, but he is not the sole author of the story now unfolding, we have to acknowledge that or else we run the risk of short term fixes with no lasting meaningful change.

 

[blues recovery]

I'm quite sure it's the legal preparations and machinations that are preoccupying the ARU.

Before Clyne totally disappeared from view - after his infamous declaration that 'we must do more communicating (as the ARU)' - he referenced something along the lines of how careful he needed to be as '..we now have legal proceedings...'.

My own guess is that ARU's lawyers are working on how to use (a) the substantively reduced planned size of the Super comp and related broadcaster agreement variations (the ARU has already leaked this manoeuvre to journos in the Force context) and (b) more specifically the ARU's now ownership of the Force's IP as the basis for their refutation and rebuttal of the clause that endorses and seemingly ensures the Force will be in the Super comp until 2020.

The ARU legal plan may well be to argue: 'OK RugbyWA you push that 2020 clause, that's just fine, but we have the transcending and legally superior and predominating right to withhold use for all Force IP in such a context so you will not be able to operate at all once and if we negatively enforce the IP use rights clause.'

This could be a sound legal and procedural tactic as it locks the situation up with no party able to move commercially or operationally into 2018, and this type of outcome would definitely suit the ARU as below.

Such a more or less legally stalemated situation will be used by the ARU to say that the Force 'has nowhere to go, it cannot legally operate without the IP rights licensed back to it by the ARU so your only option is to commence negotiations with us for a graceful close-down with player contracts paid out, etc.'

Look you may be right and I don't pretend to fully understand the legal ramifications but the lawyers have more than likely said say nothing as it can be used against you in proceedings.
However it's inescapable how badly this has been stuffed . In a normal business environment ( and from my experience Rugby is certainly not this ) someone's arse would already be in a sling . Imagine putting your Chairmen in a position of embarrassment like the ARU have with Clyne .
"Ah sorry mate forget to tell you that we may have binding agreements with both the Force and Rebels . My bad !!"

 

[blues recovery]

I agree with the sentiment but this failure has been far longer in the making than PUlver and Co. They are just the latest in the line of insular appointees to the ARU that have been complicit in the failure of Australian Rugby.

The fact is since Professionalism the system in Australia has been flawed but due to a few key reasons, not the least being the self interested nature of each of the parties involved in the ARU (ie. the States and RUPA) the system has never achieved the reform needed. JON for all the massive plaudits he gets for the success on field between 96-03 (which is in large part inherited from the players of the old amateur system and the influence) he did Sweet FA to actually drive real change and make the systems 1) Sustainable in the long term 2) Drive genuine growth (not just in pro pay packets and management) 3) Implement real governance reform with transparency and accountability.

Pulver is incompetent and has been shown to be out of his depth, and has done nothing to address the issues raised above, but he is not the sole author of the story now unfolding, we have to acknowledge that or else we run the risk of short term fixes with no lasting meaningful change.

I do agree with this

 

[Killer]

Dysfunctional, they should be shut down.

Very difficult if not impossible to mount a case that they are able to operate at the required level without self interest for the benefit of Aust Rugby.

The individual Board members are probably in a "how can I save my reputation mode" desperately looking for someone to blame for their own lack of vigilance or basically not doing their job! How could this be a functional environment? Wayne Smith says some board members have not been contacted for over a week, I would be watching my back if I was them!

 

[kickedmyheight]

But will it take seven million years to work it out, only to be destroyed minutes before producing it by the ARU/SANZAAR?

As is standard ARU procedure. Yes.

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[Killer]

Why is NZ not sharing the REAL pain?

They are clearly supporting and pushing these changes.
They, by all accounts, are driving the inclusion of the Sunwolves and Jags at the expense of Aus and SA teams.
They, for fairness and as the current quasi leader of SANZAR should be willing to share the pain in what is a potentially difficult and divisive time. From which they clearly think they will gain much.

Then maybe we would get some real impetus from the SANZAR group to solve the problems.

I blame our Management and Board for this lack of foresight in allowing this to happen as it has. No innovation, no backbone just lazy.

 

[kiap]

Such a more or less legally stalemated situation will be used by the ARU to say that the Force 'has nowhere to go, it cannot legally operate without the IP rights licensed back to it by the ARU so your only option is to commence negotiations with us for a graceful close-down with player contracts paid out, etc.'

Nah. Will they go quietly?

Without trotting out something "transcending and legally superior and predominating", RugbyWA have the option to buy back the IP rights.

The ARU's way to try to sink the Force will be to get between the club and players. Delay, delay, delay and move to prohibit new contracts until the good players sign elsewhere.

Aim to force the Force to have a squad with 30 local players instead of 15 local players and make the club uncompetitive.

Sure, if the ARU want it, Perth will be gone from Australian Rugby. But it might not be so in 2018.

The lip-service for community rugby won't have the money. Super Rugby will continue its inevitable decline. Does anyone believe the bail-outs are over?

It's going to cost the ARU a helluva lot more than they calculated.

Heads will roll before the season kicks off next year.

 

[Killer]

The ARU's way to try to sink the Force will be to get between the club and players. Delay, delay, delay and move to prohibit new contracts until the good players sign elsewhere.

Aim to force the Force to have a squad with 30 local players instead of 15 local players and make the club uncompetitive.

Sure, if the ARU want it, Perth will be gone from Australian Rugby. But it might not be so in 2018.

.

I think this would be foolish by the ARU. They will just further galvanise the WF, the Public and the Govt. Money will not be a problem with the "us and them mentality"
The ARU cannot continue to be seen as unfair in the way they are judging the sustainability criteria, their credibility/reputation is extremely important.
Any court case discovery procedure could be very harmful in ways they probably do not even know.

 

[zer0]

Why is NZ not sharing the REAL pain?

They are clearly supporting and pushing these changes.
They, by all accounts, are driving the inclusion of the Sunwolves and Jags at the expense of Aus and SA teams.
They, for fairness and as the current quasi leader of SANZAR should be willing to share the pain in what is a potentially difficult and divisive time. From which they clearly think they will gain much.

Then maybe we would get some real impetus from the SANZAR group to solve the problems.

I blame our Management and Board for this lack of foresight in allowing this to happen as it has. No innovation, no backbone just lazy.

Argentina was included as they're a full member of SANZAAR now -- hence the acronym addition. Japan was included largely at the NZRU's behest as Super Rugby needed a final team to bring the competition up to 18 teams. IIRC the only other option was another SA team, which not even SARU wanted.

Also, the fairness argument doesn't seem to cut it for the competition itself (deciding matches and guaranteeing finals spots based on geography, to the detriment of the NZ sides), so it certainly won't cut it in the board room.

EDIT: The NZRU have also only been the most powerful member of SANZAAR for the last few years. Prior to that it was SARU dictating terms (additional teams, reduced travel, guaranteed positions etc...). So if you are going to argue on fairness, then it should be SARU who should suffers. And they certainly are suffering -- both for their own earlier mistakes and as the ANC's beaten housewife.