Where to for Super Rugby?

[Micheal]

The ARU has burnt much of its social capital to preserve financial capital moving forward.

Will it be worth it? Time will tell. Generally, financial capital is easier to recoup.

I wonder if there's anything the Force can do about this. All evidence suggests they should stay but they've been utterly stitched up here.

The ARU has really let down Australia's rugby community.

 

[Moono75]

There's a well known West Australian called Danny Green who campaigns against the 'cowards punch'.

Well it looks like the Force walked in the room and got king hit by the ARU. Its not bad enough that they have ripped the heart out of the game but they aren't even prepared to go face to face in a fair fight. Un-Australian Rugby Union

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The ARU has burnt much of its social capital to preserve financial capital moving forward.

Will it be worth it? Time will tell. Generally, financial capital is easier to recoup.

I wonder if there's anything the Force can do about this. All evidence suggests they should stay but they've been utterly stitched up here.

The ARU has really let down Australia's rugby community.

Clear to me that poor state of aru and rugby balance sheet and how exposed deal wise aru is with rebels that force will be forced out. Really feel for wa rugby as this is a disaster and major set back for.the game and if had of held back and sorted out bigger picture stuff before adding rebels as 5th team we could have avoided this set back.

Biggest problem now is yes we need to fix and change things but through poor strategic management and hence rude balance sheet health rugby is broke so doing so is so much harder. We are hence now going backwards.

If ever was the the time for a allsports or murdoch or whoever to waltz in and establish an alternative including takeover and or removal of aru it would be now.

I can see why the kiwis are reluctant to look at trans tasman competition and have the risks of dealing with our incompetent aru. We need to remove them and give kiwis partner more confident to deal with to grow rather than shrink and destroy the game down here and not risk damaging kiwi rugby through our own incompetent strategic leadership.

We need an alternative to the aru, but sadly I don't see any rich benefactors or all sports coming to the rescue. But if anybody did and came offering an alternative to the aru and our own rebel super league I think most rugby fans would jump on as most have completely loss confidence in Aru to take rugby forward in this country.

At this point I would even listen to alternatives offered by the papworths of this country as let's face it anything as probably got to be better than the Current path the aru is heading us down

Ok Brett I am listening!

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[da_grubster]

Got a better idea that would leave both Melbourne and Perth with a team?

No but I am not Australian so it's not something I have thought long and hard about.

Your suggestion on moving the chiefs to Melbourne prompted my comment.

Aus cannot sustain 5 teams either from a playing/coaching base or from a financial perspective.

Especially now that Europe has taken so many aus super rugby players.

Hopefully this is just a cyclical thing and Aus rugby improves and is competitive again at Super rugby level.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

By the way, the transplant method is tried and proven for the AFL

Not always

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Here is the thing.

The nub of the issue is falling revenue from TV and attendance.

If revenue was growing, there would be none of this talk. It would already be a Super 20 or Super 24. No one would care most of these new sides will ever see a trophy. (Did anyone say Cronulla should get the chop from NRL?). It's only because the games ceases to be profitable that causes change.

The Jewel in the Southern hemisphere sporting crown is the Melbourne market.

This is why the axe will fall on the force.

So what ever they do should be about getting a product that will grow the game profitably. To me Melbourne is central to that.

But I remain in the Stronger as five camp.

Melbourne will never embrace super rugby.
Most Victorians don't know there are two rugby codes.
Melbourne being brought in was some sort of pissing contest with other codes.
A second Sydney based team made more sense and still does.
What did the ARU get for heads of agreement with Victoria?
Perhaps the Aussie Sunwolves should pay the inevitable legal costs.?
My hunch is that the ARU could not afford to wait until 2020 because there is RWC2019 and in World Cup years they get smashed financially - this will net them $10m and keep them afloat. But that is all of their own making by agreeing to the jaguars and sunwolves who have no logical or any other connection to SANZAAR

 

[blues recovery]

My read on this fiasco at the moment is that the ARU will rue the day that the self appointed genius of all things Rugby , Clarke , introduced Andrew Cox to Pulver as the saviour of the Rebels .
Cox may we'll be a Rugby lover but first and very foremost he is a pragmatic businessman . Seems pretty clear to me that one of the only things saving the Rebels bacon is the potential damage Cox can do to the ARU legally . His continued public assertions of how much damage this crap has caused his club is a set up for a damages claim that would put a massive dent in an already fragile ARU balance sheet .
That is unless of course if someone wants to pay me out of my licence i may be prepared to go quietly into the night . Make some money on the transaction as I exit and get out of something that I now wish to hell I'd never gotten into in the first place .
One way or another reality is getting rid of the Rebels will be a very expensive exercise for the clowns at the ARU and my god they deserve every financial ramming they get

 

[Strewthcobber]

But that is all of their own making by agreeing to the jaguars and sunwolves who have no logical or any other connection to SANZAAR

The Jaguars would probably claim they have a fair bit of connection with the third A there in SANZAAR IS!


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[RedsHappy]

.....many good posts here.........shows the flame of passion for this great code is far from dead in Australia.

 

[lou75]

My read on this fiasco at the moment is that the ARU will rue the day that the self appointed genius of all things Rugby , Clarke , introduced Andrew Cox to Pulver as the saviour of the Rebels .
Cox may we'll be a Rugby lover but first and very foremost he is a pragmatic businessman . Seems pretty clear to me that one of the only things saving the Rebels bacon is the potential damage Cox can do to the ARU legally . His continued public assertions of how much damage this crap has caused his club is a set up for a damages claim that would put a massive dent in an already fragile ARU balance sheet .
That is unless of course if someone wants to pay me out of my licence i may be prepared to go quietly into the night . Make some money on the transaction as I exit and get out of something that I now wish to hell I'd never gotten into in the first place .
One way or another reality is getting rid of the Rebels will be a very expensive exercise for the clowns at the ARU and my god they deserve every financial ramming they get

You have hit the nail on the head

 

[RedsHappy]

What of course the ARU failed to remark upon yesterday is that by no means does culling a Super team here mean the remaining 4 are healthy and viable.

The truth is they are not, and with every appalling win-loss ratio trend line in the Super comp, crowds are declining along with TV viewership, sponsorship, corporate boxes, etc.

The ongoing negative consequences of the creation of the failed 'national footprint' strategy - the toxified love child of the ARU's total lack of strategic judgement - have been and remain profound, not marginal.

The QRU is manifestly headed for self-made financial trouble, the Tahs situation and business outlook is fragile, the ACTRU could be facing criminal charges and cannot raise Super crowds above non-viable levels, and the Rebels will categorically not survive on 8-10k crowds and chronic team losses unless someone continues to pour millions of $s in every year.

The point being that, whilst culling one Super team may save money, the aggregate existential threat to the whole code has never been greater and any notion that culling just one Super team is anyhing other than a temporary band-aid is a fool's illusion.

 

[Scooter]

I am disappointed and angry (although not surprised) with the ARU. Some of the poor work of ARU highlighted by this situation includes agreeing to the expansion with Jaguares, Kings and Sunwolves despite being warned it wasn't a good idea, some of the clauses they agreed to in Rebels "privatisation" agreement and the fact they didn't stick up for all of our teams at SANZAAR. Also if the reports are to be believed saying we need to do more consultation and then going to Perth swinging the axe.

99% of the time GAGR is full of friendly banter between supporters of different clubs. This fiasco has led to slanging matches between supporters, particularly Rebels and Force fans, some based on fact some not so much. Nice work ARU, your level of fan engagement has dropped and now you have a portion of existing fans fighting amongst ourselves and I assume a fair portion of the fans of the axed team walk away from rugby.

In my opinion both the Force and Rebels have good development pathway programs, which are both important for the future of the ARU. Unfortunately one of these pathways is going to be cut off at the knees due in large part to the ineptness of the ARU.

I assume, despite this decision, the ARU plan to re-enter the axed city in the future, well good luck with that.

A sad day for Australian rugby.

 

[Tex]

Can someone please put some context and figures behind the assertion that rugby can't be a success in Melbourne?

There seems to be a coalescing view here that the only reason to retain Melbourne is because of the legal cudgel held by the Rebels.

It does a great disservice to the vibrant rugby community in this state; the 10,000 paid members in 2016 (about par with many establishment NRL clubs) and the thousands who attended every Friday night game through the past seasons in the busy sporting market here.

Melbourne is set to be the biggest city in Australia in the coming decades. No rugby presence here will be as much of a shot in the foot as was the decision to allocate a sixth team to South Africa and the Japanese shermozzle.

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[Slim 293]

Rugby can be a success in Melbourne, but right now it's not..........

Melbourne is obviously a very competitive marketplace, and right now the Rebels are well behind the other codes with poor crowds (yes, rugby crowds are down everywhere) and zero media exposure.

 

[Twoilms]

Seems the Force are to commence legal proceedings. You'd have to imagine, based on their open intention to commence civil proceedings, that they were told they are all but done.

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[blues recovery]

Can someone please put some context and figures behind the assertion that rugby can't be a success in Melbourne?

There seems to be a coalescing view here that the only reason to retain Melbourne is because of the legal cudgel held by the Rebels.

It does a great disservice to the vibrant rugby community in this state; the 10,000 paid members in 2016 (about par with many establishment NRL clubs) and the thousands who attended every Friday night game through the past seasons in the busy sporting market here.

Melbourne is set to be the biggest city in Australia in the coming decades. No rugby presence here will be as much of a shot in the foot as was the decision to allocate a sixth team to South Africa and the Japanese shermozzle.

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No argument from me here . Apologies to the passionate supporters of Rugby in the west , but having a well run , professional Rugby presence in Melbourne for all of the other competing interests in the city ,has far more upside .
In its first three years the Rebels crowds , sponsorship , membership and tv viewing numbers were significantly higher than both the Force and the Brumbies .I know this as fact .
Problem was from its very outset the club bleed money for both self inflicted and ARU inflicted reasons .What is not remembered here is how difficult the ARU made it for the Rebels to recruit its original playing roster with it being impossible for the Rebels to sign ARU contracted players in its initial setup.
This lead to the roster being a combination of expensive foreign players (Cipriani, Delve etc , grizelled wounded veterans (Mortlock , Freier), League converts ( Saffy , Vuna , Rooney ) and untried youngsters ( Pyle , Phibbs,Du Plessis).
And this team cost 7.5 million a year almost 3 million more than the other Oz teams with there abundance of Wallaby top ups . And a little reported fact is the Rebels received less ARU funding than the rest of the teams in its first two years .All of this on top of the self inflicted issues such as appointment of the first CEO lead to the club losing 12 million dollars in its first two years . This includes 5 million in 2010 when they hadn't kicked a football yet
This is a financial burden the club has never recovered from despite a lot of people with solid business acumen including the current owners best endeavours .
Unfortunately the business model just doesn't work , even in good times let alone when you throw this current cluster fxxx into the mix .
That's why I'm putting myself in Coxs shoes and from a business perspective saying "How do I get out and take these bastards money with me as I leave "

 

[lou75]

Seems the Force are to commence legal proceedings. You'd have to imagine, based on their open intention to commence civil proceedings, that they were told they are all but done.

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I guess they are not going to take it lying down - good on them. If they do indeed have an agreement till 2020 then that will make things very interesting

 

[Dave Beat]

Rugby was great when rugby was played in high schools & NSW / QLD / Auckland / Waikato / Auckland / Otago / Wellington represented their areas.

With the odd games with ACT

Note, I'm not avoiding WA, and Vic here - more to the point when things were basic Ewn McKenzie still found his way from Vic to the Wallabies.

I have no idea why Japan and Argentina started in the Soup

 

[blues recovery]

Rugby was great when rugby was played in high schools & NSW / QLD / Auckland / Waikato / Auckland / Otago / Wellington represented their areas.

With the odd games with ACT

Note, I'm not avoiding WA, and Vic here - more to the point when things were basic Tony Daly still found his way from Vic to the Wallabies.

I have no idea why Japan and Argentina started in the Soup

I think you mean Ewen Mac

 

[Slim 293]

In its first three years the Rebels crowds , sponsorship , membership and tv viewing numbers were significantly higher than both the Force and the Brumbies .I know this as fact .

Alternative facts?

The Brumbies average crowds and TV ratings were higher than the Rebels in 2 of those first 3 years............