Where to for Super Rugby?

[Omar Comin']

So how long until we're down to 3 Super Rugby teams?

The ARU were handing out this document at the press conference apparently. Pretty clear it's all about the Wallabies for the ARU, and if this is the justification for going back to 4 teams then the same reasoning gets you to 3.

 

[zer0]

Boy oh boy, Zero. Won't the NZ sides get some red hot competition playing the Asian sides eh?

Can always loan them a few locks and flankers to boost their sides..... Besides, the main on-field competition would likely still come from some combination of Argentina, Australia and/or South Africa, depending on who flounces.

 

[Tex]

Emblematic of a code all too happy to throw buckets of cash at the most recent NRL chancer looking to pump their income before shitting off to France or Japan.

At the risk of joining Dave Beat's bandwagon, the code's ailments can only be fixed by broadening the base and building depth in the systems to deliver Wallaby prospects.

 

[The Snout]

Yep ok Snout, but as I haven't heard the broadcast and you may of, I would have to say I have read it wrong, but I obviously wrongly assumed he was speaking as someone who on the Sanzaar board! Actually all the comments have been by individual board members so far.

I think if any comment about Japan was to be made then perhaps Andy Marinos the CEO of SANZAAR would be the guy to make it as it's a SANZAAR issue. It would be a lot more subtle that saying a partner is on notice. I just think it's a poor day for Tew to saying anything like that.

Of course it's his role to comment for NZ about the new format. But it does come across that Australia and NZ at least want different things out of the schedule. To me anyway.

 

[papabear]

These guys are hardly the bearers of good news.

IMO Bill Pulver is putting on a better performance then Clyne.

TBH the focus on the grass roots is refreshing. Good on them. One can only hope the peanuts at NRL HQ in dealing with club grants / celery cap issues they also come to the same pro grass roots conclusion.

 

[Garry Owens]

Speaking of "the product" and the lack of competitiveness in the world of SANZAAR it sort of also brings up thought about what whether its appropriate to re-distribute talent and then consider things such as a draft

One of the issues with the competition , I feel , is that we still haven't got passed the nationalistic ties that flows top down to our Provinces that have become Clubs in the "new media"

If you simply look at the business of sport ...the NBA is a great example of social equity in play .

In simple terms there is :

1. A 15 man roster
2. A Salary Cap of say X
3. A Luxury Tax limit of Y

Every team gets to draft new talent in reverse order to where they finished the previous season

The totality of Basketball Related Income ( BRI ) is tallied up and a salary expenditure is set at a % of this in an effort to try and make franchises profitable ( hasn't always worked over the last 20 years they've been grappling with it but there are some very interesting principles with it )

Anyway .... you can sign others teams free agents so long as you are under the salary cap , you can exceed the salary cap to sign your won free agents and offer them an extra year on their deal and out to 115% of what they are being offered by other teams to retain them if you want them ( other teams can only offer a certain amount based on their set base from their prior contract etc ) ...........you can even exceed the 2nd x level to sign your own free agents but if you exceed this 2nd level ( luxury tax level ) you will pay a $1 for $1 penalty to the League

This money then gets re-distributed to teams as extraordinary income that are under the salary cap level and managing their payroll more prudently and taking a different approach to roster building

Over 20 years .......the financial rationalism of it has absolutely forced talent re-distribution throughout the league so that the competition is more balanced , competitive and fun to watch ( even for casual followers who otherwise wouldn't have been fans if the Lakers were just whupping everyone every year )

The key to big money in media distribution rights is to even up the game

 

[The Snout]

48 - 72 hours for the process. That's something at least I'll credit, no drawing it our for months as may be the case in the SA process.

 

[John S]

Maybe some of the country NSW members can lend us a truck-load?



Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

I've got some mates who own properties here on the South Coast, I can add in some chicken manure from my yard too.

 

[moa999]

The Sunwolves play some bloody nice rugby in front of loud good crowds in Japan, why they then play in Singapore baffles me

Because the South Africans didn't want to have to change planes (no direct flight).
Of course the Japanese are always travelling, including to SA.

Presumably Sing games will get cut to 2 under the new format.

 

[moa999]

The ARU were handing out this document at the press conference apparently.

Help us all.

Next Pulver will be saying we should cut to one team.
Then the Wallabies will be ranked -1, two spots ahead of NZ.

 

[Omar Comin']

The big problem for Australian rugby is that structured the way it is the health of the sport here is extremely reliant on international success in increasingly competitive international competitions.

Thus our successes, which periodically boost the sport here, will likely get even further apart, especially in the longer term as rugby grows around the world and more nations get competitive at test level. And if Super Rugby doesn't die in the next few years it's likely the percentage of Super Rugby teams that are Australian will fall too. Which again will probably make our successes further apart.

How is rugby in Australia going to thrive under this structure in a consistent and sustainable way?

The other sports in this country that were mostly reliant on international success: cricket and soccer, have changed strategy. They've both reaped the rewards because of it. It's time Australian rugby followed suit.

 

[moa999]

So we lose 20% of our potential Wallabies to Europe or the NRL, and thousands of fans.

Tell me again how this is good for Australian rugby

 

[Micheal]

What happens to the players of the cut franchise?

Draft system? Surely they'd have to be allocated evenly (or with a bias towards the most under performing franchise, e.g. the team not cut from the Force / Rebels).

I'd personally prefer for the Rebels to be cut, with the Brumbies to play 2-4 games there per season, although private ownership makes that hard to handle. I see no reason why the Rebels should remain over the Force.

Also, if the Force are cut, I see a decent proportion of their player base choosing the Europe option over reallocation to other franchises, which makes the cut pointless for all but financial reasons. I see this group as largely being the WA natives and those who identify WA as their "home" e.g. McCalman, Hodgson, DHP, RHP etc.

The ARU also has to ensure that players go to franchises where they will get a start regularly otherwise the players who we wish to reallocate will simply go overseas. No starting XV player at the Force / Rebels will be content simply being a depth player elsewhere.

E.g. Lance has to go to the Brumbies or Rebels to be guaranteed a start. He won't sit behind Foley or Quade.

I should also make it clear that, as an ARU apologist, I am fucking pissed off about this decision. Rugby union will not survive in Australia with four fucking professional teams. The ARU need to double-down on grass roots support and make the NRC a viable professional competition so we are eventually in a place where we can peel away from the NZRU-indulgent shit show that is Super rugby.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^^
'allocated'. I doubt it, i think any contractual obligations they are under become void once the team they are contracted to no longer exists. I highly doubt the ARU can allocate anyone. It'll be a free-for-all with a lot of them leaving the country/sport altogether.

 

[Tex]

Then there are the rising players at the remaining teams who get squeezed out to an Italian or Japanese club in favour of the reasonable Force/Rebels blokes who are in demand.

It's.Going.To.Be.Shit.

 

[Melchior]

Rugby union will not survive in Australia with four fucking professional teams. The ARU need to double-down on grass roots support and make the NRC a viable professional competition so we are eventually in a place where we can peel away from the NZRU-indulgent shit show that is Super rugby.

I agree. It seems NZ is increasingly the villain in all this. They want their cake and to eat it too. They complain about other conference teams and their competitiveness but then don't want a system where they play the teams they are complaining about less because, quelle surprise, playing foreign teams generates more interest in NZ.

NZ contribute the least in terms of the broadcast deal and money coming in, yet they seem to think that what matters most for NZ is what super rugby should be. Though at the end of the day the ARU allowed this to happen.

 

[fatprop]

Whereas I just want a Super Rugby comp where they play each side home and way and we can compete week in week out

 

[KiwiM]

I agree. It seems NZ is increasingly the villain in all this. They want their cake and to eat it too. They complain about other conference teams and their competitiveness but then don't want a system where they play the teams they are complaining about less because, quelle surprise, playing foreign teams generates more interest in NZ.

NZ contribute the least in terms of the broadcast deal and money coming in, yet they seem to think that what matters most for NZ is what super rugby should be. Though at the end of the day the ARU allowed this to happen.

Sorry what?

The players stance in NZ is they want fewer derbies cos it's physically way too demanding.

The franchises in NZ like the derbies because they generate more $

from Steve Tew today

"Ideally if I was representing the views of our players, we wouldn't be going to home and away derbies but you talk to the guys running the clubs and they're not unhappy.

"I was talking to a couple of the Highlanders boys after the game (against the Blues) and they'd prefer it wasn't the case and we'll be taking that forward in the next development of the competition post 2020."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11835387

 

[RugbyReg]

So how long until we're down to 3 Super Rugby teams?

The ARU were handing out this document at the press conference apparently. Pretty clear it's all about the Wallabies for the ARU, and if this is the justification for going back to 4 teams then the same reasoning gets you to 3.

Thanks for that. To me that just illustrates Australia's inability to develop their players properly.

We added new teams, signed new players, but never developed these players. The likes of Stirzaker, Debreczeni, CFS, Talakai, Kellaway, etc etc. All players that are as good as any going around but who haven't developed their game. Heck, I don't even think Folau is a better player now than he was in his debut year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Coaching is the major issue at all levels. The ARU needs to upskill coaching everywhere as at the grassroots level it drives participation and engagement and at the professional level turns players with natural talent into good professional players.

Improving the pathway to be coming a professional coach in Australia has to be well planned. There is pretty much zero evidence to suggest it is possible to become a good professional coach as an Australian without going overseas for a substantial amount of that development.