Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

and try really hard to avoid discussing further

It's a forum version of whackamole.

Like you I'm very interested to see what happens.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I decided I'm not going to let the reaction to a throw away comment get in the way of my enjoyment of this forum. I'm just going to address the below and then move on from it, it's not really relevant to this thread anyway.




It wasn't intended as a sexist comment and I apologise to those who read it as such and were offended. For whatever reason I didn't enjoy the commentary and that was the only thing I could identify that was different. Maybe she was just the wrong person for the job, but I'm neither going to lodge a formal complaint nor stop watching rugby because of it. It is what it is, the overall standard of commentary from both sides of the ditch is sub par at the moment anyway.

I'll reiterate my point from last night. I wasn't calling you sexist. I just wanted to know why you thought she didn't fit as a commentator. I know that sometimes forum such as this can be difficult to properly express things like intent and context. So unless you plainly stated something derogatory I am willing to give someone the opportunity to clarify their thoughts. Which to your credit you've endeavoured to do just that today.

 

[Micheal]

I know we all rag on about the commentators, but there was a moment in the Rebels v Force game this weekend that irked me to no end.

Gregan - when announcing the Rebels team before the game started - said there were some exciting new faces in the Rebels backline, with Andrew Kellaway making his "Super Rugby debut".

Sure - maybe he meant that Kellaway was playing his first game at 13, but it shows such a lack of knowledge about the game and the players in 2020.

Even the least informed GAGR-ers know about Andrew Kellaway. The schoolboy sensation. Was said to have been the most talented Australian schoolboy back since Kurtley Beale. Played NSW Schoolboys in Year 10. Australian u20s top try scorer. Played multiple seasons for the Tahs, went overseas, and now is with the Rebels.

How the fuck does he not know this? Why is he commentating? Honestly one of the least interesting and least informed blokes I've ever heard speak.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

I find the biggest issue with Australian commentary is the lack of variety, I remember from the early 2000's it's been pretty much the same crew, its not that I dislike them. But tuning in every single game for the last 20yrs its Kearns/Kafer/Clarke Martin/Gregan the whole thing becomes so bloody monotone. I switch between channels on Fox watch the AFL/NRL, Union and its like chalk & cheese.

Hell the leagies are full of it, every 2nd try is the try of the century but at least they talk it up. Switch over to Union and shit i'm at a funeral with Gregan telling us what private school in NSW the deceased attended.

Why not give the G&G podcast boys a go Richard/Blake, Matt & crew they know there stuff, and at least it won't sound like a funeral. Just do something different.

Last night the Brumbies/Reds showed what the game here can deliver.

My biggest fear for Aus rugby is we roll over take the easy option, give the kiwis what they want and next year Kearns & Kafer introduce an exciting new TT Super rugby competition on Fox Sports.

Sadly then we really will be attending a funeral with Aussie rugby in the coffin.

I mean, how many people do you expect Foxtel to keep on the payroll?

 

[RebelYell]

Andrew Swain is doing a fantastic job IMO

 

[The Honey Badger]

It is just sad that after 20 years, the damage that Super rugby has done to the code in this country when the only option that appears available now is some Semi-Pro, oranges at halftime domestic competition.

but maybe that is the reset the game needs. Perhaps that will be the best thing for Aus rugby long term.

This semi pro comp might start to engage the latent Rugby fans. In time it will get crowds and viewers and the money will flow and can develop to full pro.

Just cant see anymore people wanting to watch a 5:30 pm game in NZ where there is a 90% chance of drubbing by some foreign team wearing Red jumpers. We have been here and we know how it turns out.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Tonight's game convinced me of two things. 1) is that Super Rugby Au should form the basis of a domestic structure moving into the future with perhaps the Drua/Lautui added for extra flavour. And 2) quality coaching is paramount and something we need to seriously invest in. Do that and games like tonight will became far more common place.

WCR - you need to couch your comments on this was a quickly thrown together competition that had no marketing or investment behind it - just imagine if had the latter what it could be..

COVID 19 been a blessing in some ways to trial this quickly thrown together domestic comp and as a proof of concept as shown it is something to build from and indeed something worth investing in...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

WCR - you need to couch your comments on this was a quickly thrown together competition that had no marketing or investment behind it - just imagine if had the latter what it could be..

COVID 19 been a blessing in some ways to trial this quickly thrown together domestic comp and as a proof of concept as shown it is something to build from and indeed something worth investing in.

Might add I really feel yes we need to do something with nz but that should be a champions league concept and have our own domestic competition first. Maybe a more super charged champions league that has two tiers where bottom tier winner gets automatic entry for next years champions league or something so can get all teams involved from both nz and oz as well as japan.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

WCR - you need to couch your comments on this was a quickly thrown together competition that had no marketing or investment behind it - just imagine if had the latter what it could be..

COVID 19 been a blessing in some ways to trial this quickly thrown together domestic comp and as a proof of concept as shown it is something to build from and indeed something worth investing in.

That's another element that needs to be taken into account. This launched to very little fanfare and likely very little since on the platform. If it received the levels of promotion and marketing that the AFL or NRL receives then things could be looking even rosier.

 

[Dctarget]

Could we do a draft if we had purely domestic?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

That's another element that needs to be taken into account. This launched to very little fanfare and likely very little since on the platform. If it received the levels of promotion and marketing that the AFL or NRL receives then things could be looking even rosier.

I can’t remember also people talking so much about local derbies - slowly but surely building the local tribalism missing from super rugby cross border expansion model - won’t happen overnight but heading us more in the tight direction perhaps

 

[KOB1987]

Could we do a draft if we had purely domestic?

If we went domestic it would likely mean at least one more NSW and Qld team. I tend to think that a lot of players would gravitate towards their origins if that happened.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If we went domestic it would likely mean at least one more NSW and Qld team. I tend to think that a lot of players would gravitate towards their origins if that happened.

Thinking about that and I'd actually like to see a team in North Sydney as opposed a Western Sydney team. This would force the Tahs to actually start to actively push into the west of the city. Which certainly wouldn't hurt.

 

[Dctarget]

Out of the box suggestion: harness the 600,000 thousand NZers living in Aus and make the 6th team a Sydney/Brisbane Kiwi team in the vein of London Irish or London Scottish.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Out of the box suggestion: harness the 600,000 thousand NZers living in Aus and make the 6th team a Sydney/Brisbane Kiwi team in the vein of London Irish or London Scottish.

Brisbane would be the place to base that team. Seeing as Queensland has the highest NZ expat population in Australia. But that would be an interesting concept. Though, there would need to be a few things worked out. Still, that's some nice out of the box thinking. I like it.

 

[TheHaydog]

Why don't Australia and NZ just both go it alone. Clearly NZRU have shown they have no time for more than 2-3 teams in AUS. Likewise AU don't want to cut teams again, so they'd be walking into a massive trap. That's not even mentioning the long history of tension between the 2 unions.

In short, NZ fans want a domestic tournament, they have shown it in numbers a 20K average after 16 games is quite solid. Would they really be up for the Rebels/Force not particularly?. Australian fans on this thread have a good idea going that probably needs time to gel. A domestic 8 team tournament w/Fiji seems like a starting point over the ditch with greater focus on local cross-city rivalries long term.

Here in NZ though, it's time to focus on having just one tournament a merger of Mitre10 and Super Rugby if possible.
The crowds if nothing else back this up big time.

 

[kiap]

Here in NZ though, it's time to focus on having just one tournament a merger of Mitre10 and Super Rugby if possible. The crowds if nothing else back this up big time.

Where does the Mitre10 fit in this?

It might be not much else.

Is the Aratipu then largely binned?

A domestic 8 team tournament w/Fiji seems like a starting point over the ditch with greater focus on local cross-city rivalries long term.

6 teams (perhaps w/Fiji or Aus-based alternate) might be a starting point given there are only 5 months left in 2020.

Adding 2 more on top is understandable but there are downsides - particularly for a potential 1-season rollout.

 

[Omar Comin']

6 teams (perhaps w/Fiji or Aus-based alternate) might be a starting point given there are only 5 months left in 2020.

Adding 2 more on top is understandable but there are downsides - particularly for a potential 1-season rollout.

More than 6 might be possible if the Sunwolves and/or Jaguares could be involved (and obviously based in Australia for the tournament). The Australian Barbarians idea might also be possible. So 2 out of those 3 would get you to 8 teams assuming the Fiji Drua/Latui are in. I doubt if any of these teams (other than Fiji) would work long term but it'd probably be okay for a season or 2.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

More than 6 might be possible if the Sunwolves and/or Jaguares could be involved (and obviously based in Australia for the tournament). The Australian Barbarians idea might also be possible. So 2 out of those 3 would get you to 8 teams assuming the Fiji Drua/Latui are in. I doubt if any of these teams (other than Fiji) would work long term but it'd probably be okay for a season or 2.

The Sunwolves are gone. Sucks but it's true. And Japanese Rugby is moving on. Suggesting their involvement is counter productive. Similar to the Jaguares. Their squad has been released to explore their options and about half have already taken up deals in Europe. With travel restrictions likely to remain for some time. And if Argentina wants to find alternative competition option for those remaining they could do so at a great deal of ease by setting a 2nd franchise in the Supa Liga de Americano Rugby.

Our best options could be to bring in Fiji and if possible the Manuma from GRR alongside a 6th Aus team based around a BaaBaas set up. What should be on the agenda for next year at a minimum is a 6 team competition featuring Fiji and some kind of Cup competition based in one country with NZ and Japan. Most likely Japan. Go to where the most eyeballs are. Same for Tests. If South Africa is still in the deep with Covid then run a proper Pacific Nations Cup with at least Aus, NZ, Japan and Fiji.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

More than 6 might be possible if the Sunwolves and/or Jaguares could be involved (and obviously based in Australia for the tournament). The Australian Barbarians idea might also be possible. So 2 out of those 3 would get you to 8 teams assuming the Fiji Drua/Latui are in. I doubt if any of these teams (other than Fiji) would work long term but it'd probably be okay for a season or 2.

Assuming we have some private equity investment behind this - Fiji would have to be obvious choice given Fiji sides already in NRC and GRR so already have some idea of setup can create and know Fiji team would play an attractive brand of rugby that would (over time) ensure a) competitive and b) attract fans.

That makes six sides and probably looking at Fiji playing home games out of western sydney.

Commercially probably need 8 team competition where each side plays each other twice (16 round competition plus finals).
Still not sure who other 2 sides are: maybe Samoa, maybe a Western Sydney Team, maybe Sunwolves (based in Australia)...I think with COVID a 6 team competition more plausible with say a Fiji Drua based in Australia and then move to 8 team competition in 2022.

Now 16 rounds plus final still not ideal as commercially I think we need 22 round plus finals competition but maybe that is where champions league concept against Japan and NZ leagues could come in and follow after and where like in Europe for soccer have 2 types of champion leagues - one for the higher ranked teams in each competition and one for the lower ranked teams in each comp and where the winner of lower league competition also automatically gets promotion / automatic entry to higher level champions league.

More I think about this - negotiating a champions league with NZ and Japan got to be the way to go and latter would have high commercial appeal to supplement broadcast funding and hopefully also help attract private equity investment.