Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...r-rugby-s-axed-sunwolves-20190320-p515sg.html

The article above is about plan by twiggy in collaboration with sanzaar to create Asian super rugby with SUn wolves involved

 

[flat_eric]

We need to get off mother's tit and go our own way for a change. As per usual RA is in a state of analysis paralysis, no guts to make a decision that puts our own needs first for fear of missing out on someone else's money.

How much lower does our code need to sink before we realise there is no future under this model? If we don't take the next opportunity to fundamentally restructure the domestic game once the current Super Rugby broadcast model is up than we have blown it completely.

 

[hoggy]

We need to get off mother's tit and go our own way for a change. As per usual RA is in a state of analysis paralysis, no guts to make a decision that puts our own needs first for fear of missing out on someone else's money.

How much lower does our code need to sink before we realise there is no future under this model? If we don't take the next opportunity to fundamentally restructure the domestic game once the current Super Rugby broadcast model is up than we have blown it completely.

Sadly lack of money, self interest, leadership, foresight and the never ending devotion to "Test Primacy" will ensure nothing changes with the next agreement.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...r-rugby-s-axed-sunwolves-20190320-p515sg.html

The article above is about plan by twiggy in collaboration with sanzaar to create Asian super rugby with SUn wolves involved

Interesting. Though I really don't like the 2nd Div angle that it has been reported as being.

 

[Ignoto]

They should have 5 NZ Teams, 5 Aus teams, 3 pacific island teams and a Japanese team for 14 teams

the Broadcasters would love this tournament because ALL games are played within timezones close to each other.

I don't think the Broadcasters would be that open for your proposal as 3 of those teams will have a tiny market for the broadcasters to sell towards.

You'd be better off switching to 5 NZ, 4 Aus, 2 Japanese + 1 PI team. That can then be expanded to 5 Aus + 3 Japanese teams once the competition gets running.

Remember, the Japanese market has the market share they're after whereas the PI nations won't pull enough in for them to be fully sold on it.

 

[Dctarget]

What the fuck does SA think they're going to do with out us? Join the NH competitions? Take a look at the Cheetahs and Kings to see how that's going.

Surely they can't sustain rugby with just a supercharged currie cup. The Springboks will be the only team worse than us.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm still unsure why people think RA should have put their foot down with SARU/SANZAAR and demanded that the Sunwolves stay in the competition when the JRFU wants them out as well.

It's a strange hill to want to die on.

RA's chief mission has to be to get the best arrangement possible for us for whatever happens in 2021 and beyond. That has to be aligned with NZ.

 

[Jamie]

I know the Cheetahs and Kings have been a bit of a disaster in the Pro IV from what I gather

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm still unsure why people think RA should have put their foot down with SARU/SANZAAR and demanded that the Sunwolves stay in the competition when the JRFU wants them out as well.

It's a strange hill to want to die on.

RA's chief mission has to be to get the best arrangement possible for us for whatever happens in 2021 and beyond. That has to be aligned with NZ.

The JRFU didn't want to have to pay the participation fee. From a RA perspective Japan offered a solid market to explore and develop in. The Super franchises have been actively seeking deals which can be reflected in the series of games they've played against Top League clubs during the June Test window in recent years.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I am wondering if jfru worked out that better to have Japanese teams in a Asian grr comp that they don’t have to pay for vs a super comp struggling for regional relevance they have to pay for. I think more to this

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I know the Cheetahs and Kings have been a bit of a disaster in the Pro IV from what I gather

Well, their crowds certainly reflect issues. When the Kings move from Mandela Stadium (42k) to University of PE's athletics stadium (10k) and still make it look oversized you have issues. I'm not sure how open to more SA involvement the Pro nations would be unless those are the Big 4. Last I heard the SARU were considering the Pumas and Griquas for the Pro 14. Which I can see them being politely told to fuck off with. Which should be our position if they try to dump them in Super Rugby as well.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I am wondering if jfru worked out that better to have Japanese teams in a Asian grr comp that they don’t have to pay for vs a super comp struggling for regional relevance they have to pay for. I think more to this

If there's any grounding to Georgina's article in the SMH today that may very well be the case.

 

[Braveheart81]

The JRFU didn't want to have to pay the participation fee. From a RA perspective Japan offered a solid market to explore and develop in. The Super franchises have been actively seeking deals which can be reflected in the series of games they've played against Top League clubs during the June Test window in recent years.

They also don't want to continue funding the team and think it interrupts the preparation of the Japanese side and conflicts with the Top League season.

I don't disagree with your other points. I just think it would be pointless for RA to burn any bargaining power they have by trying to keep a team in the competition that doesn't directly benefit the Australian teams or RA that their own union isn't even wedded to keeping.

If the JRFU were battling to keep them then it might be a different story.

 

[dru]

I know the Cheetahs and Kings have been a bit of a disaster in the Pro IV from what I gather

This assessment is too simple. Kings are struggling exactly the way that practically all commenters said they would. Cheetahs have not been an unbridled success, had their ups and downs, but FAR from "a bit of a disaster".

 

[dru]

Well, their crowds certainly reflect issues. When the Kings move from Mandela Stadium (42k) to University of PE's athletics stadium (10k) and still make it look oversized you have issues. I'm not sure how open to more SA involvement the Pro nations would be unless those are the Big 4. Last I heard the SARU were considering the Pumas and Griquas for the Pro 14. Which I can see them being politely told to fuck off with. Which should be our position if they try to dump them in Super Rugby as well.

SARU was certainly looking for European avenues for the Griquas and Pumas, but no I don't think it was Pro 14. It was a short end of season thing in one of those Celtic comps that is not first tier.

You have to hand it to SARU - they were a bigger basket case than the ARU but have turned it around. They found professional opportunity for their cut teams in an existing pro comp. They are actively hunting for similar opportunities for the remaining top tier clubs. It is all brought together in the Currie Cup which brings all those professional teams together in a "best of" African rugby.

In the mean time they have gotten hold of the politics around coach and player selections, working with the Zeitgeist but not in a way that is any longer impacting negatively on the National team.

 

[James Pettifer]

This assessment is too simple. Kings are struggling exactly the way that practically all commenters said they would. Cheetahs have not been an unbridled success, had their ups and downs, but FAR from "a bit of a disaster".

Crowds are pretty bad
v Glasgow - 4700
v Ulster - 5063
v Cardiff - 4423
v Munster - 3368
v Benetton - 2846
v Zebra - 6500

The Kings are materially worse - 2 games less than $1500

 

[Rebels3]

It’s time for just some common sense. I don’t agree with the Sunwolves cutting but on saying that I wasn’t overly supportive of them been included to start with, purely down to distance.

The same with South Africa, I don’t think their future lies anywhere other than internally. It’s way too far to NZ and Aus to build a sustainable model built on engagement, and they are again too far away from Europe plus it’s the wrong time of the year.

I genuinely believe Aus and NZ have no other future than a competition with each other, it’s more about when than if (economically it’ll either decline to such a level it’ll happen, or the established officials will move on and people with fresh ideas will move in). With the domestic comps sacrificed to a level that they aren’t even semi-pro

Argentina are exactly the same situation, I don’t think they have any other future than a continental competition in South America.

Once again some common sense is needed.

In a perfect world it’d be the following

England - ring fenced competition
France - Top 12 (2 less teams)
Scotland, Ireland, Wales - Pro 10
Italy - having 2/3 teams in the French system starting at Pro D2 level
USA, Canada - MLR (2/3 Canadian teams)
Japan - Top League
Australia, New Zealand, Fiji - Trans-Tasman competition (inc Force)
South Africa - Currie Cup
Argentina - South American club competition

European Club Competition - 16 clubs instead of 20

Maybe Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Africa have their own champions league style comp on top of this

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Aus cannot support 5 teams either financially or in terms of player depth.

I cannot see too many broadcasters interested in a new SPC/Super 6 style tournament. Nor can I envisage much appetite from NZ for comp where the foreign half are easy beats.

 

[hoggy]

Aus cannot support 5 teams either financially or in terms of player depth.

I cannot see too many broadcasters interested in a new SPC/Super 6 style tournament. Nor can I envisage much appetite from NZ for comp where the foreign half are easy beats.

Aus could support 8-10 teams given a competition that creates the interest and growth to sustain it. It has by far the biggest economy with the capacity for this, what they cannot support is a competition like Super rugby that simply prevents being able to take advantage of that growth and economic capacity.

 

[sunnyboys]

Hey ladies and gentlemen,

Did anyone actually take notice of the bits in the reports where the largest contributor of broadcast money spoke and got their way?

Doesn’t that tell you something about how much real clout RA and NZR have?

Both unions need that SA money. Just like they need that 12 yearly BIL tour injection.

When we stop taking SA money you know it’s because we’ve taken a step back toward amateurism or a Russian oligarch has bought the game in Oz.

In future years my team will have 6 or 7 home games. 7 or 8 games a year in the oz Timezone. 2 in nz prime time. And 2 or 3 in SA/arg time zone.

Vs 24 rounds of NRL/AFL

We are in a massive retreat