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Where to for Super Rugby?

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dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
Oh, I'd add to the "self interest" theme. Shouldn't we be discussing SANZAR and NZR?

And RA, for a couple of years now they don't seem to have any.
 
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Dick Tooth (41)
Dru, Bar, BH

Just to add a tad to your discussions.

The lack of planning and consultation between the major stakeholders in Australia is somewhat scary. Any successful alternative to Super Rugby needs lots of planning lots of discussions and lots of input. I have always said it will take four years to develop and set up a commercially variable competition.

What I see is almost a blind faith that things will come good in the end. If they don't come good, and we hit a wall we will be in a world of pain.
 
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hoggy

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
dru said:
Oh, I'd add to the "self interest" theme. Shouldn't we be discussing SANZAR and NZR?

And RA, for a couple of years now they don't seem to have any.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Super Rugby, SANZAAR, NZR, RA pretty much define the word self interest.

it is hard to see how until you get a level of independence, that the game here can actually start making the decisions that will actually grow the game.
 
The Honey Badger

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
dru said:
barbarian and Braveheart81

I have to say thanks. You both have this ability to galvanize a response from me, things that truly help pull together my thoughts. You know those discussions when you are talking with a logical thinker, you both agree on the facts, and somehow walk away with one going "white" and the other "black".

It's perplexing. One thing for sure, we can't both be right.




Yes true, obviously true, but the comment skews the discussion. We really do, I think, underestimate the level of distrust and annoyance in RA and Super. Any alternate is going to have a bounce. And before we start talking about "dead cat bounce" surely RA and Super need to answer the questions themselves. Dwindling fan support, dwindling enthusiasm in the media, dead crowds, diving broadcast ratings, constantly commercially failing RUs, intentionally reduced professional opportunity.

The question should be whether the RA can manage any kind of bounce - dead cat or other. Hell just a flattening of the trend would be useful. We can only dream of "bounce".



Again, before we throw darts at an alternative, what is RA doing here? NRC? (Intended) Removal of the WA rugby community? Honest question here, after the real fail between Pulver and SRU, Castle has been on the job over 6 months now, how frequently has she met with the SRU? The growing disfunction between Shute Shield clubs and RA is surely a fact in support of ANY alternative comp, hardly a pillar of strength for the status quo.



This is misrepresentation. Though let's play with the wholly unnecessary polemic. ,The FIRST question to be answered is how good is the current business plan? No, actually, the first question is WHAT IS THE ACTUAL current plan? And when you say the alternate isnt a good business plan, it should not be"is it good?", let's try "is it better?"

IF we put new teams teams in Brisbane and Sydney, arranged to play when Waratahs and Reds were away, I humbly suggest that there is indeed more than enough "anger" to match the success of those two teams (not a high bar btw) - in the absence of any other addition to the business plan. ofc you wouldn't proceed just on that business plan, but in my view, right now, it would actually be enough. We'll gain back some of the rusted out rugger fans, and match enough of the not-yet-rusted-off fans (like yourselves) to match the RA success. I think. But no, you wouldn't proceed on that basis.



Possibly ask yourself if you are in danger of protesting too much on this. It's like me saying "FWIW I'm pro-Reds" which is true, but it's not at all a complete or accurate picture.
Click to expand...
Superb post

At the end of the day we are all screaming for change. Something new. Something quite different needs to happen.



Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk
 
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Dick Tooth (41)
Tis interesting at times to count your blessing and assume mistakes by others are actually your good management or read into things your own bias, often masking a future threat or lost opportunity.

Today News are reporting as are a number of other outlets that the FIFA forced Congress is complete and will be given to FFA to implement by 7 September according to the articles.

This is the link and I will copy briefly from the article. Soccer's downturn over the last couple of years is because its been in a toxic civil war over taking power from the FFA & State Associations and spreading it across all stakeholders and secondly for the A-League clubs to be in charge of the A-League.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/footb...s/news-story/a28b77ca206f831f625dd33e87bda28a

Copied bits only from the article and we need to follow suite IMO . Lets all be aware this is who Fox and others will look at for comparisons in future media deals.

The eight-member congress review working group assembled by FIFA earlier this year has until the end of Tuesday to send the world’s governing body its proposal for how FFA’s congress should look - and a roadmap for the future of the A-League.
It should mark the beginning of the end of the civil war that has hamstrung the sport in Australia over the last two years.
It’s anticipated the group will also push for the A-League to be run independently of FFA
 
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Dick Tooth (41)
^^^^^^

Our systems and structures looked poor before. But now Soccer along with NRL & AFL has their domestic competition run by the clubs within the competition. Our clubs are controlled by overseas clubs.

If there was ever a single to change this IMO screams at rugby, get working tonight on the Plan """B"""
 
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WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Rebels3

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
I wouldn't want the words A league/FFA and structure associated with Australian Rugby at all, they are equally incompetent and self invested. Arguably they are doing worse as a collective than rugby, largely propped up by they massive junior and senior base.

We have a lot in common tho and a collective effort to some level wouldn't be a bad thing.

The best example of what we should strive for in the short to med term (5-20years) is to be the NHL equivalent in Australian sport to American sports. NFL is the AFL, NBA is the NRL, MLB is the collective cricket options, MLS is the A-League and the NHL is Super Rugby/WSR/Wallabies etc. and the main national teams (Women's 7's/Wallabies) to be the no.1 supported team in Australia for a female or male team when in town. That might take spreading the 7's around on a rotational basis (Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne, Canberra then repeat) and the major tests to different locations (great to see the Bledisloe in Perth next year) with each location (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Canberra) guaranteed of a test each year.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
WorkingClassRugger said:
Well, there are currently 8 teams in the NRC. It wouldn't be all that difficult to add 4 or so Asian teams.
Click to expand...

I had dinner with my brother in law, and his brother in law on the other side the other night. Both entrenched rugby fans. Neither had even a vague attachment, not much interest in, an NRC team. It could develop in time, but in any confected competition, a big issue is getting people to care about a team. I mean, club rugby (certainly in Sydney) holds its fans, but if they are drifting from Super teams with old state attachments, it's a big task for NRC to drag in eyeballs. I fear this is a big stumbling block for anyone, and any comp. It'll be interesting to see how the NRC goes this year.
 
Rugbynutter39

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
hoggy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/31/after-marginal-gains-where-now-for-super-rugby-in-australia



So now Twiggy should save the NRC and Super rugby
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Everything in that article I have been saying should happen. There is such a big opportunity with WSR and NRC link and opportunities to expand into Asia Twiggy presenting that I just would be dumb founded if RA is not seriously putting out the olive branch to Twiggy and his team and working bloody hard to find a way to work with and not against Twiggy's team.
 
sunnyboys

sunnyboys

Bob Loudon (25)
Cyclopath, there is nothing interesting in how NRC will go this year. It will go this year the same it has gone in previous years. And I’m assuming you are referring to crowd and viewer numbers.

The true potential of the NRC vis a vis Super Rugby could only be judged if it was THE step before Test rugby, had all available pro players, AND if it was played at the start or the year.

Anything else is a false comparison really
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
sunnyboys said:
Cyclopath, there is nothing interesting in how NRC will go this year. It will go this year the same it has gone in previous years. And I’m assuming you are referring to crowd and viewer numbers.

The true potential of the NRC vis a vis Super Rugby could only be judged if it was THE step before Test rugby, had all available pro players, AND if it was played at the start or the year.

Anything else is a false comparison really
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. As it is, NRC is kind of a comp in limbo. Maybe it could be more. Creating an identity that gels with fans will be a challenge.
 
sunnyboys

sunnyboys

Bob Loudon (25)
Instead of thinking how to fix Super Rugby or could NRC become a replacement, I prefer to think in terms of how do we fix rugby content during the prime ‘winter’ football months of March to July - with a purpose of maximising the number of Australian fans. (This is also a largely defensive play to protect rugby’s turf from NRL and AFL.)
If that’s the aim you quickly get a list of requirements that can be summarised as:
1. Easy to access for viewers - FTA before pay tv
2. Reliable and regular home games and tv scheduling in useful timezones
3. Predictability of outcomes via talent equalisation
Next on the list after this is branding etc...

On the subject of how quickly can people adopt a sports team - the BBL is instructive - the format, the access for viewers, the amount and scheduling of content was so spot on (after Ten fixed it of course) that people quickly adopted brand new teams over the previous state based alligences.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
sunnyboys said:
Instead of thinking how to fix Super Rugby or could NRC become a replacement, I prefer to think in terms of how do we fix rugby content during the prime ‘winter’ football months of March to July - with a purpose of maximising the number of Australian fans. (This is also a largely defensive play to protect rugby’s turf from NRL and AFL.)
If that’s the aim you quickly get a list of requirements that can be summarised as:
1. Easy to access for viewers - FTA before pay tv
2. Reliable and regular home games and tv scheduling in useful timezones
3. Predictability of outcomes via talent equalisation
Next on the list after this is branding etc.

On the subject of how quickly can people adopt a sports team - the BBL is instructive - the format, the access for viewers, the amount and scheduling of content was so spot on (after Ten fixed it of course) that people quickly adopted brand new teams over the previous state based alligences.
Click to expand...
True. But in cricket no-one watched state cricket anyway for years, and T20 is basically a different game. If it competed with anything it was International One Dayers. The analogy in Rugby would be a Supercharged domestic sevens comp, with games on every night.
But certainly some ideas in there worthy of consideration.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
cyclopath said:
I had dinner with my brother in law, and his brother in law on the other side the other night. Both entrenched rugby fans. Neither had even a vague attachment, not much interest in, an NRC team. It could develop in time, but in any confected competition, a big issue is getting people to care about a team. I mean, club rugby (certainly in Sydney) holds its fans, but if they are drifting from Super teams with old state attachments, it's a big task for NRC to drag in eyeballs. I fear this is a big stumbling block for anyone, and any comp. It'll be interesting to see how the NRC goes this year.
Click to expand...

Must admit I was at a NRC game last year Cyclo, and mate who was there said almost exactly same thing, he was at the one game, said to me basically as a social event with the 5-6 of us who tend to go to tests/Super Rugby games over the years, but he said he just didn't have any emotional buy in with 'local' team. Ok myself and one other mate go to most games, but we such tragics we attend almost any game that someone puts on! Perhaps as Sunny says if test players etc were involved it may help, but I still think it would take a few years to really 'own' a team.
 
dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
For Reds fans the NRC provides a sort of litmus test of potential talent for the next year. Remember when Hayne was trialling for NFL? Bit like that. NRC in this mode will never excite greatly more than the rusted on franchise devotees.

In NSW it seems to be a fail connecting to either the Waratahs or the Shute Shied. Some connection via individual clubs maybe, but not a community connection. So it doesn’t even match the level of interest in Brisbane.

This does not mean a domestic comp can’t work, though some lessons are obvious.
 
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