Where to for Super Rugby?
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Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
- maybe you won't get another team in Super Rugby down the track. I'd rather have 4 teams with a couple that are competitive than 5 teams that are all terrible.
- I'm a bit confused. You want more overseas talent to make the Australian clubs competitive but you're also worried about losing players overseas? If the Australian players are good enough, why wouldn't they stay and play Super Rugby?
- perhaps you don't watch the SA games but as a Blues fan, I watch them when I can. Some years, I seem to watch more games in SA than at home due to the hours I work. I was trying to go through the forum threads from the winning years to get an indication of how much interest those SA games got but it's too much work
- again, I'm not sure what you are 'over'? I don't know what value the Rebels have provided Super Rugby or Australian rugby. Especially if you simply want to import players/talent just to make them competitive?
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
The place to start is with this: It depends what you mean by Super Rugby. If you mean the competition – played as it is now – across four continents over six months of the year, then the writing is the wall.
It's not going to matter a whole lot what the Australian teams do, because the broadcasters will pull the plug on this model anyway. Without radical surgery, it's dead in the water.
Cutting three teams is just a band-aid solution to get to the end of the existing signed contract. It won't be enough to save the patient.
Nah. Interest in Super Rugby has been on a declining trend for over a decade. Even the Waratahs winning the comp three seasons ago wouldn't reverse that momentum.
And if you think this is limited to Australia, think again. TV Viewers per match have been trending down – and attendances are even worse – across the board, for quite some time.
It's reached crisis point in 2017, but this hasn't just developed suddenly from nowhere. The regular season transcontinental model is bust. Frankly, it's a ridiculous competition and it's surprising that it made twenty years.
The answer is fokol.
Recordings, sure. But after the event and the score is out there and known, you just never get the same eyeballs as a game in prime viewing time.
But just to be clear, this doesn't have to mean Australian teams will never play in South Africa or New Zealand again. The six months disjointed, jet-setting format is not going to last, but a more condensed and compact Champions Cup as the culmination of the season could be made to work. That's the logical progression.
You could even even call it "Super Rugby" if you'd like, and pretend it's still the same comp.
Rebels3
Jim Lenehan (48)
I like your passion, but I think you answered the question in one of your own sentences when you said there is 100% chance of an aus win. You have to ask yourself what would nz rugby be like if there was no positive story to write come Monday in the press and there was 3 other leagues with more content and a guaranteed positive story to write about? Would you honestly expect sponsors, fans, children, therefore money to feed pathways, children playing the game (talent) to engage with the game. Something has to change as the more sports and content that is entering our market, the harder it is to win people over. Children look up to heroes that the media builds up, people that are visible to their eye, we aren't getting that visibility. I would say we are loosing the battle to win the hearts and minds of children but that would suggest we actually had them at some stage.
Being a born and bred qld'er I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my father being a kiwi and leading me into rugby I probably wouldn't be that exposed to it at all, prime example of people that weren't are my friends that I could honestly say wouldn't know 1 wallaby outside of Israel folau, maybe if they were a little more informed that'd know pocock, cooper and hooper, that is it. Others they'd say would be eales, gregan and campese, 95% of people wouldn't know George smith, lynagh, Farr-jones etc. Allan jones is known as a shock jock and not a great coach. The sad thing is Australia has the potential to be as dominant as the all blacks are with the talent in this country but these warriors and athletes play league.
So how do we tap into this market? Well going by last week as an example, having the only game on a Friday when people are stuck in traffic trying to get home to watch isn't going to help. Or perhaps it's the game that was played at 230 when the youth are playing sport or families are out enjoying the amazing Aussie weather, or was it the 2 matches played after midnight? And to think that was a good week we had a game at 730 on Saturday and 4 on a Sunday. The problem with these two games tho is the fact neither team had played at home for almost a month. During that time there would of been 15 matches played in the nrl in Sydney and I'm sure the broncos would of had 2 matches as well. These teams also will be providing their fans with almost twice the amount of opportunities to see them throughout the year.
We understand that we will be sacrificing money if we decided to pull the pin, but we also look around and see the massive deals been thrown around to other codes it's ridiculous. Now I don't think any of us would ever expect the same kind of money but even if we built the sport upto having even 10% of the market, the amount of dollars and more importantly the talent that would want to play our game would be very very exciting for the sport. Instead we are involved in a tournament where the money streams in the current format is from a market that has no actual invested interest in the teams (Europe) and the second biggest supplier is an economy that if it's isn't bust it's very close to it. What happens Europe tunes out to watch a better product and what happens in 10 years when South Africa's economy can't sustain the money offered?
We love the kiwis and South Africans and the opportunities they have offered Australian rugby players in the past 20years. But the product has been so refined away from what the Australian market wants, that it's not funny any more. While we have a competition that is geared up for somewhere 17time zones away and engaging children on the opposite side of the earth, our rival codes are fixing their schedules, providing more product and supplying content to their prospective audiences. We are also caught in a dead lock with a partnership that has more red tape than a government department.
We realize we are the weakest of the partners, but the fact is under the current format we are always destined to be the 3rd partner. I want personally want Australia to be the biggest and best, something that might not ever be the case but it'd be nice to actually be capable of actually becoming that.
Personally I'm not 100% sure what the answers are but I also have a gut feel that simply getting results aren't the sole answer. It'd help but it'd only mask the issues that are simply there, just like the World Cup final did. On saying all this tho I am prepared to get behind what ever path aus rugby choose as I am a fan of the game first and foremost.
As for my pref of what I'd do is the following.
6 team comp over 10 weeks (5 aus + PI). I would love to have a grand final and a guaranteed aus champion every year. It'd mean guaranteed success for someone.
Then I'd like to see a trophy between aus and nz teams. Perhaps a 12 team comp split into 4 groups of 3 teams. (5 Aus, 5 NZ, PI and Sunwolves).
Example - Group 1 could be (Chiefs, Tahs, Sunwolves). Play home and away. Top of group leads to a 4 team finals.
I think this would be viable as the super rugby comp without aus would be reduced to 12 games, so nz teams would be looking for extra games to make their usual quota. It could also be the catalyst for a champions league style comp with teams from other countries into the future.
I'd also like to see touring national teams embrace playing mid week clashes against domestic sides. France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland vs the rebels, force, brums on a weds night would be very popular.
Apologies for any structural or grammar issues. Writing this on my phone
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
Rebels3
Jim Lenehan (48)
What works with the champions league format is it's a special night. You are playing teams that are away from your bread and butter. It also allows teams to fight on two fronts. Teams could have a shocking domestic season but another trophy means there is something to work towards and play for, very important for not only the fans but the players. It also gives the media two fronts to celebrate all things that are rugby, the domestic final where they have have a very tribal approach and an international one where you can have a nationalistic one.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
Truly Winter must be upon as, for the folk from the North have proclaimed Ser Bob of House Dwyer as the man to unite the 7 kingdoms.
(For like the first time in forever!)
So that's the Upper North Shore, Lower North Shore, Northern Beaches, Eastern Suburbs... Who am I missing here?
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Bullrush
Gotta say I feel the same way as p.Tah . We have far to many people supporting a system that won't work in the Australian market place. Further they support a board or boards down the years that has lead us here.
To me we have a very reactionary board not a proactive board, moreover a board obsessed with compliance and hoping that overseas nations will pay our way.
Pulver does not appear to have the courage of a tight head prop or hooker, more the meek acceptance of a wanta be player who finishes up on a local committee where he can sit at the players table for once and wear a tie and act important. Deep down but he is not the tight head prop willing to fight and put it on the line.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I hear what a lot of our Kiwi mates are saying and of course it's pretty easy and simple from where they sit -- their teams are dominating. I know all the reasons for that and it makes sense, but it's not what's relevant to me in this situation (with the greatest respect).
As I've said since last year: the comp is broken for mine. I've watched fewer games of Super rugby in 2017 than I ever have and I've been a passionate lover of the comp since 1996 (actually even in the pre-pro era when it was the Super 10). If a rusted-on fan like me isn't digging it you can only imagine what others who are less die hard are feeling. We need to change something because the product isn't rating. Nothing really wrong with the quality of the footy, but the packaging is poor, nobody seems interested and it will die a slow death if we continue like this.
At worst I want to see a change to the way the conferences work and we have more games involving Aussie teams in time zones that might get a few punters to watch. Let's just start with that if we have to.
As I've said since last year: the comp is broken for mine. I've watched fewer games of Super rugby in 2017 than I ever have and I've been a passionate lover of the comp since 1996 (actually even in the pre-pro era when it was the Super 10). If a rusted-on fan like me isn't digging it you can only imagine what others who are less die hard are feeling. We need to change something because the product isn't rating. Nothing really wrong with the quality of the footy, but the packaging is poor, nobody seems interested and it will die a slow death if we continue like this.
At worst I want to see a change to the way the conferences work and we have more games involving Aussie teams in time zones that might get a few punters to watch. Let's just start with that if we have to.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
We have to go back to 2013 to get the full picture.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/s18-on-its-way.13275/
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/s18-on-its-way.13275/
lou75
Ron Walden (29)
If the ARU have stated that no club will be cut, why do we still have the no re-sign order?
It seems that non-Wallaby players whose contract ends this year must try to get a contract overseas.
There goes Will Skelton
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/7fcae3cb75cc1199d40e64048ebbcf6a
From the Rebels players I count 18 whose contracts end this year and they all must be trying to secure a contract somewhere - hell I would be.
It seems that non-Wallaby players whose contract ends this year must try to get a contract overseas.
There goes Will Skelton
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/7fcae3cb75cc1199d40e64048ebbcf6a
From the Rebels players I count 18 whose contracts end this year and they all must be trying to secure a contract somewhere - hell I would be.
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
This isn't really directed at you, it’s just a channel for my frustration.
I'm over the uncertainty of not knowing what will happen in Super Rugby in 2018. I'm very concerned about the fallout.
I'm fed up that the only news rugby gets in Australia is negative, about the impending demise of a code that is 'dying'.
I'm frustrated that I muster up a group of fringe rugby supporters and take them to a Tahs game. We have a great time and keen to make it a regular outing, but the next home game is 3 weeks away. The momentum and feel good factors are lost. Next week they're at a Swans or NRL game.
We're in a major battle with the other codes in Oz. We're treading water and it’s depressing at times. However there are still many positives. Rugby in Melbourne and WA are some of the positives. I've seen it first hand, it is growing and we are seeing the talent slowly coming through. That gives me hope for the future. That's what keeps me going. Despite the challenges the game is moving beyond the heartlands. Cut one of those teams and all that hard work and positivity is gone and we're not getting it back.
I feel let down. I plough a substantial amount of money into the game. I work hard to bring people into the rugby community and get kids into the game. Its tough at times but I'm willing to keep going at it for the sake of the game. It’s important to me, but the perception is that our leaders are willing to cut a team and regress. To me that's giving up. If they won't fight for the game, why should I? That's the challenge I'm facing. I don't give up and I don't want to walk away. I want our leaders to stand up and tell us they are fighting for the code that they don't want to regress. This battle is worth fighting for. If they do, I’ll join them again. I will stand on the sidelines in the rain and wind. I will coach, I will cheer and I will cry. Just give me something to keep believing in and I will fight for it.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Truly Winter must be upon as, for the folk from the North have proclaimed Ser Bob of House Dwyer as the man to unite the 7 kingdoms.
(For like the first time in forever!)
To continue the theme I am hoping to see a Danerys type figure taking the Kals (Pulver and ARU) into their temple letting the natural course of things take place.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
The lack of job security is fucking appalling. Who here would genuinely be putting in 100% if they knew in 6 months their employer couldn't, was actually incapable of keeping them on. I'd be spending my days looking for a contract that isn't completely fucked.
I just can't get passionate about keeping five teams, if the current format (broadly) is one we are continuing.
The thing I keep coming back to is this - will the Rebels and Force EVER be competitive? I'm not sure.
As much as 'growing the game' is nice, and developing talent and providing opportunities is important, both teams have been consistently shithouse for the entirety of their history (except one or two years for the Force where they vaguely threatened to pinch a finals spot but ended up falling short).
The thought of them lifting the trophy at any time in the next 20 years is sheer fantasy. At least when the Tahs failed you knew they had the depth and talent, and just had to put it all together. The Rebs and Force have neither.
I don't mind the 'Champions Cup' format, but I worry it makes a confusing season even harder to follow. How many comps will that make in a year? I'm following the Australian (Super) Cup, the Champions Cup, the Rugby Championship, the NRC, the Shute Shield and a litany of one-off Cook Cup style games...... whereas NRL/AFL have one comp and that's it.
There's no easy answer here, and the Bob Dwyer/Alan Jones types who act as if it can all be solved by sacking everyone and going back to the mid-80s really grind my gears.
.
The thing I keep coming back to is this - will the Rebels and Force EVER be competitive? I'm not sure.
As much as 'growing the game' is nice, and developing talent and providing opportunities is important, both teams have been consistently shithouse for the entirety of their history (except one or two years for the Force where they vaguely threatened to pinch a finals spot but ended up falling short).
The thought of them lifting the trophy at any time in the next 20 years is sheer fantasy. At least when the Tahs failed you knew they had the depth and talent, and just had to put it all together. The Rebs and Force have neither.
I don't mind the 'Champions Cup' format, but I worry it makes a confusing season even harder to follow. How many comps will that make in a year? I'm following the Australian (Super) Cup, the Champions Cup, the Rugby Championship, the NRC, the Shute Shield and a litany of one-off Cook Cup style games...... whereas NRL/AFL have one comp and that's it.
There's no easy answer here, and the Bob Dwyer/Alan Jones types who act as if it can all be solved by sacking everyone and going back to the mid-80s really grind my gears.
.
Rebels3
Jim Lenehan (48)
South Africa are like us, caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they want to host the 2023 World Cup on the other hand they are contemplating alienating two regions that would be involved with hosting the World Cup.
Can we get some clarity please! Fingers crossed the ARU meeting on the 10th will have greater clarification on what is happening.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
^^^^ Very small chance of that, I think. More likely the ARU will take a similar stance to SARU - leave it to others to make the hard choices.
Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
The Lions were shit for a long time. Hurricanes were mostly shit until recently.
Bit of a defeatist attitude really. Particularly given how the Force are probably the second best Australian team this year, all things considered.
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