Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rebel man]

Pending COVID, test players will actually travel to New Zealand up to 4 or 5 times this year, as well as South Africa, Argentina, Scotland, England, Wales, and Ireland. Likely one of these will be scrapped this year, but if we’re talking long term it needs to be considered.

Test players don’t get a few weeks of acclimatisation in their host country before a test match, it’s 1 week maybe 2.

Not just WA universities who have released papers on this ‘crap’ plenty, plenty have. Might be worth have a read on the topic..

It’s all a load of shit just like all that altitude shit that multiple studies said was great year’s ago and now has been done away with. They always have a few weeks in camp before they start their spring tour. You talk about long haul travel and then bring up a flight to NZ hardly long haul.

The Pro 14 players would cover more distance than players in the new format of super rugby and they play 21 games

 

[Adam84]

It’s all a load of shit just like all that altitude shit that multiple studies said was great year’s ago and now has been done away with. They always have a few weeks in camp before they start their spring tour. You talk about long haul travel and then bring up a flight to NZ hardly long haul.

The Pro 14 players would cover more distance than players in the new format of super rugby and they play 21 games

Nah it’s not, it’s well proven and covered off in a number of studies. If you’ve got a journal article which disproves the impact of long haul travel on performance then send us a reference.

Disagree if you like, but you need to factor in travel when discussing season lengths. Comparing to the NRL is silly because they don’t have the international travel factor, they don’t need an extra week or two break between matches to allow for the fatigue.

It was you who brought up New Zealand, I’m just responding to your comments about travelling there.

 

[Rebel man]

Nah it’s not, it’s well proven and covered off in a number of studies. If you’ve got a journal article which disproves the impact of long haul travel on performance then send us a reference.

Disagree if you like, but you need to factor in travel when discussing season lengths. Comparing to the NRL is silly because they don’t have the international travel factor, they don’t need an extra week or two break between matches to allow for the fatigue.

It was you who brought up New Zealand, I’m just responding to your comments about travelling there.

Literally the furthest we will go in a Trans Tasman super rugby is Perth.

Pro14 would cover more kms and have a 21 week season plus the other cups the the sides play in plus finals, the NRL is 24 weeks plus finals. There is not much travel in the new super rugby format

 

[Adam84]

Literally the furthest we will go in a Trans Tasman super rugby is Perth.

Pro14 would cover more kms and have a 21 week season plus the other cups the the sides play in plus finals, the NRL is 24 weeks plus finals. There is not much travel in the new super rugby format

Pro14 might be 21 weeks, but it runs parallel with the 6 Nations, meaning test players only play 15 rounds of the Pro14 in 2021.

Super Rugby is run concurrent to the Rugby Championship, so any TRC games are in addition to Super Rugby matches. Rugby Championship plus Super Rugby is also 21 games and more travel then Pro14.

Super Rugby: 15 rounds plus finals
TRC: 6 rounds
July Test: 3 rounds
Spring Tour: 5-6 rounds
Total: 29-32 games a year, plus travel..

 

[Brumby Runner]

Super Rugby is run contiguous to the Rugby Championship,

Fixed..

 

[Rebel man]

Pro14 might be 21 weeks, but it runs parallel with the 6 Nations, meaning test players only play 15 rounds of the Pro14 in 2021.

Super Rugby is run concurrent to the Rugby Championship, so any TRC games are in addition to Super Rugby matches. Rugby Championship plus Super Rugby is also 21 games and more travel then Pro14.

Super Rugby: 15 rounds plus finals
TRC: 6 rounds
July Test: 3 rounds
Spring Tour: 5-6 rounds
Total: 29-32 games a year, plus travel..

But their test players also tour the south and then play against us on the spring tour, plus they compete in the European club championship or challenge cup and also play games for the Anglo welsh cup

 

[Braveheart81]

Super Rugby is not run concurrent to the Rugby Championship, so any TRC games are in addition to Super Rugby matches. Rugby Championship plus Super Rugby is also 21 games and more travel then Pro14.

Super Rugby: 15 rounds plus finals
TRC: 6 rounds
July Test: 3 rounds
Spring Tour: 5-6 rounds
Total: 29-32 games a year, plus travel..

This is the biggest issue around increasing the length of Super Rugby or indeed the number of matches scheduled for our Super Rugby teams (i.e. if they were playing in a separate competition as well).

We currently play everything separately so there is no overlap. Any increase in the number of Super Rugby matches would involve overlapping with test rugby and to do that we would need to substantially increase the size of the squads which might not be financially viable.

We would also need to deal with the issue that it is nigh on impossible to come up with a schedule that wouldn't mean that the overlap happened at the crux of the competition and there is no way you want second string sides contesting finals due to their timing.

 

[dru]

This is the biggest issue around increasing the length of Super Rugby or indeed the number of matches scheduled for our Super Rugby teams (i.e. if they were playing in a separate competition as well).

We currently play everything separately so there is no overlap. Any increase in the number of Super Rugby matches would involve overlapping with test rugby and to do that we would need to substantially increase the size of the squads which might not be financially viable.

We would also need to deal with the issue that it is nigh on impossible to come up with a schedule that wouldn't mean that the overlap happened at the crux of the competition and there is no way you want second string sides contesting finals due to their timing.

The issue here started with a suggestion that the season should be shorter. Which could be accommodated but seems financially foolish. I would like a longer season, but your point is completely valid BH.

 

[Braveheart81]

The issue here started with a suggestion that the season should be shorter.

I read those posts in regards to MLR.

It is true that it might make it easier for a new competition to compete if it was short enough that it was attractive as an add-on for players to increase their number of games a season to make more money but I don't think that positioning is ever going to work long term if there are aspirations to become a top competition.

 

[Adam84]

But their test players also tour the south and then play against us on the spring tour, plus they compete in the European club championship or challenge cup and also play games for the Anglo welsh cup

European Club Championship has been scrapped for 2021, Anglo Welsh Cup hasn’t run for years, and they haven’t set a date on the Premiership Rugby Cup, if that does run, clubs use it as a development comp and rest their top players as it typically overlaps with the Spring Tour anyway.

I.e. these matches/tournaments aren’t cumulative since many of them run concurrently. It’s like saying a Wallaby plays Super Rugby, TRC, Shute Shield, NRC and Spring Tour.

Reality is, in a regular season, very few test players in Europe are playing more then the 29-32 games a season that their Southern Hemisphere counterparts could be expected to play. In fact, English players are limited to 30 games a season, even then only a few actually reach that number.

 

[Braveheart81]

Reality is, in a regular season, very few test players in Europe are playing more then the 29-32 games a season that their Southern Hemisphere counterparts could be expected to play. In fact, English players are limited to 30 games a season, even then only a few actually reach that number.

This is the issue though. Saracens played 33 matches in the 2018/19 season between winning both the UK Premiership and European Cup.

Their comps overlap with Six Nations and End of Year Internationals so they have to have squads that are large enough to cater for the test players being out plus for the fact that no one is going to play every game or close to it.

This would be hardest for Wales, Ireland and Scotland who are drawing their players from far less teams.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well whatever the number of games I am thinking our eventual aim for growth would have to be to have 8 aussie teams...

10 year plan?

 

[KevinO]

The argument could go on for ever about games played per season, here is a break down of just 2 players.

Wyatt Crockett is the most capped Super rugby player, 202 games over 12 years or 16.8 games per year. He also played 71 tests over the last 8 years of the 12 years making 25/26 games a year the most a SH player could play.

Comparing with Donncha O'Callaghan when he was at Munster, he played 268 games over 11 years at a average of 24 games per year, he also played 94 tests over 10 years so his average is 33 games per year in the height of his career. (Worth noting O'Callaghan than went to England for 3 years and played another 63 games for Worcester)

The most games in the Pro 14 is 302 but he did not play a lot of test rugby so was not worth comparing. Crockett and O'Callaghan both would have played knock out rugby every year as well as being involved in most tests in a year.

 

[Adam84]

making 25/26 games a year the most a SH player could play.

Technically that’s not true, 2014 for example, some Waratahs/Wallabies players could have played 32 games(18 super rugby, 14 test matches) unless they were dropped/ rested or injured

 

[Braveheart81]

Michael Hooper averaged just over 27 games a year between 2012 and 2019.

Some of those years would definitely have been over 30 games.

I'm pretty sure he played all 32 games in 2014. He certainly played all the tests that year and I don't remember him missing a Super Rugby game.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I'm pretty sure he played all 32 games in 2014. He certainly played all the tests that year and I don't remember him missing a Super Rugby game.

Played more minutes that season than Crockett did in his career.

Games is not really the best measure

 

[Rebels3]

Crockett also played 93 matches for Tasman and Canterbury.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Copied from NZ Domestic Rugby 2021 thread. Article is pay-walled online but was in today's actual newspaper:

NZHurld reporting that if the Trans-Tasman travel bubble isn't open in time for a SRT-T then SRAo will be extended to a third round.

Playing TT in Aus isn't considered viable as players would have to quarantine for 14 days on return to NZ & those who go on to make AB would have to do another 14 days upon returning from TRC and/ or Bledisloe match(es) later in the year, this is seen as too onerous on the players.

A decision will need to be made soon, all MIQ places are fully booked until June.

 

[Derpus]

Copied from NZ Domestic Rugby 2021 thread. Article is pay-walled online but was in today's actual newspaper:

NZHurld reporting that if the Trans-Tasman travel bubble isn't open in time for a SRT-T then SRAo will be extended to a third round.

Playing TT in Aus isn't considered viable as players would have to quarantine for 14 days on return to NZ & those who go on to make AB would have to do another 14 days upon returning from TRC and/ or Bledisloe match(es) later in the year, this is seen as too onerous on the players.

A decision will need to be made soon, all MIQ places are fully booked until June.

You'd have thought they'd planned for this when they announced the comp?

 

[Dan54]

You'd have thought they'd planned for this when they announced the comp?

Yep, and this could very well be the back up plan, really it's only sensible thing to do if there not a bubble in place. I suspect we may have to wait until next year, as there not enough certainty.