Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Oh nonsense. NZR are a bull in a china shop. Time for them to become a touch more circumspect and engage with RA as a legitimate stakeholder. This unilateral action, and in the case of Kanaloa Hawaii poorly executed, is doing nothing to strengthen ties.

NZR never and I mean never even to my knowledge spoke to Kanaloa Hawaii, I heard a spokesman from KH say they had asked for and received an EOI, but apart from that the only thing I heard from them was them being talked about on TV regarding MLR, I have not heard any PI team actually being mentioned by NZR, apart from last month or so about MP (Moana Pasifika). Can you enlighten me a bit, I genuinely want to know, as I haven't seen anything. And I genuinely asking you to let me know where you got the info on NZR and KH from so I can read about it.

 

[Dan54]

And out of interest, and I not trying to stir anyone up, but if this report is true it would seem Drua would not be in OZ conference in 2022, shame as I thought that would work well if MP (Moana Pasifika) do get a team together and have one in each comp and then TT after that.
https://www.fijitimes.com/fijian-druas-super-rugby-dream-soon-to-become-reality/

 

[Derpus]

And out of interest, and I not trying to stir anyone up, but if this report is true it would seem Drua would not be in OZ conference in 2022, shame as I thought that would work well if MP (Moana Pasifika) do get a team together and have one in each comp and then TT after that.
https://www.fijitimes.com/fijian-druas-super-rugby-dream-soon-to-become-reality/

Seems like they must have responded to the EOI. To be fair, doesnt seem like we ever actually invited them to participate.

Not sure how NZR can afford to sustain both the Maori and the Drua - but i'll be happy if they can.

 

[dru]

NZR never and I mean never even to my knowledge spoke to Kanaloa Hawaii, I heard a spokesman from KH say they had asked for and received an EOI, but apart from that the only thing I heard from them was them being talked about on TV regarding MLR, I have not heard any PI team actually being mentioned by NZR, apart from last month or so about MP (Moana Pasifika). Can you enlighten me a bit, I genuinely want to know, as I haven't seen anything. And I genuinely asking you to let me know where you got the info on NZR and KH from so I can read about it.

It is a side issue, Dan, and I have probably mis-quoted - should be Kanaloa Pasifika.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/spor...-nz-rugby-to-court-over-professional-bid.html

 

[Dan54]

It is a side issue, Dan, and I have probably mis-quoted - should be Kanaloa Pasifika.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/spor...-nz-rugby-to-court-over-professional-bid.html

Yeah mate, I thought they were under name of Kanaloa Hawaii too. But I glad you posted that link, as it backs up my point that NZR never said that KP were never spoken to as a team,well it certainly doesn't say so there. But good of you to prove my point and as I said I know they asked for an EOI.

 

[Dan54]

Seems like they must have responded to the EOI. To be fair, doesnt seem like we ever actually invited them to participate.

Not sure how NZR can afford to sustain both the Maori and the Drua - but i'll be happy if they can.

From what I have read (and only what I read) is that Fiji and MP (Moana Pasifika) have been named as preferred bids of the ones that have asked for EOI, and both have been told they got an awful lot to prove to actually join. Only reason I surprised was because I got sucked into reading and thinking some papers were being honest when they said that Fiji were aligned with RA, and would be in a so called Aus conference in a TT comp. Thought I read that in the Broadcasting deal thing with RA. I do like the idea of one going to each conference if they can a: afford to fund themselves completely, and b; Field competitive teams. Both are required I believe for them to add to the comp.

 

[Adam84]

No NZ were never introducing teams in 2021, but if you have got statements that they said saying different by all means show me. Hell and not posts on here, like the ones that had Drua all signed up for next year.

I meant 2022.. RA wanted to hold off on any new teams until at least 2022 when the financial situation was a little bit more clearer, they didn't want any new teams for 2021, NZRU were the ones originally pushing for 2021

 

[Adam84]

I do like the idea of one going to each conference if they can a: afford to fund themselves completely, and b; Field competitive teams. Both are required I believe for them to add to the comp.

I really don't see how this is possible unless they are been given a cut of the broadcast rights, without money they wont be able to afford the players required to be competitive. This notion that they will be able to join Super Rugby and not get a cut of the broadcast rights from the comp they are joining is a bit ridiculous IMO, if thats the expectation been put on these bids then its setup to fail.

 

[Dan54]

RA have never opened expressions of interest, released a review or made any formal announcement for the inclusion of a pacific island team, unlike NRZU. So really this is a hypothetical question.

Don’t see why you’re getting so upset about the comment if you actually agree with what I’m saying.

McLennan 4 months ago?
Australia, meanwhile, have been working hard on their plan B, an eight-team competition featuring all five Australian professional outfits, a Fijian Drua team, an Argentinian side and the second coming of the Sunwolves.
McLennan spoke to UAR president Agustin Pichot on Thursday about Australia becoming a second home for Jaguares players left high and dry after the cancellation of Super Rugby. He described Pichot's reaction as "appreciative".
RA's position remains that a 10-team trans-Tasman competition is the ideal model in what is likely to be a COVID-19 restricted international landscape next year. Pasifika and Japanese sides could be added in 2022.
RELATED ARTICLE



Australian rugby
Fair dinkum crossroads: Australia to stand firm on five Super teams
"My preferred competition is trans-Tasman five and five and I even received a call last night from London from powerful backers wanting to invest in the competition," McLennan said.
Silverlake, Providence and Tattarang - the private equity arm of Andrew Forrest's empire - are believed to be the three major players keeping a close eye on proceedings.

RA would look to use a similar model to CVC's investment in the UK's Premiership Rugby, whereby the investment firm buys a stake in the commercial rights to a competition.
Mate it not getting at RA in anyway, they seeing what options are out there exactly as NZR is, just some of you are so anti anything NZ rugby you a very very careful what you chose to read!
Anyway let's not go there again, it will be what it will be!

 

[Dan54]

I really don't see how this is possible unless they are been given a cut of the broadcast rights, without money they wont be able to afford the players required to be competitive. This notion that they will be able to join Super Rugby and not get a cut of the broadcast rights from the comp they are joining is a bit ridiculous IMO, if thats the expectation been put on these bids then its setup to fail.

Exactly, they should get a cut of TV money. If they add teams and viewers to TV they should get a cut of revenue. So I would imagine all parties will discuss this if and when a TT comp gets going in whatever form it takes.

 

[Adam84]

McLennan 4 months ago?
.
Mate it not getting at RA in anyway, they seeing what options are out there exactly as NZR is, just some of you are so anti anything NZ rugby you a very very careful what you chose to read!
Anyway let's not go there again, it will be what it will be!

What I said remains true.. RA have never opened expressions of interest, released a review or made any formal announcement for the inclusion of a pacific island team. McLenna spoke loosely about a Australian competition which had the possibility for additional teams 2022, this was only ever Plan B in reaction to NZRUs demand that Australia cull teams.

Had the kiwis continued with the demands to cull Australian teams, then i dont doubt that we would have seen a Fijian Drua style team in an Australian competition from 2022, but remaining in a TT with all 5 Aussie teams was always RA’s priority.

NZRU went a step further then just seeing what options were out there, they released a formal report which included the recommendations and opened a formal EOI process for the teams which extended to the pacific island consortiums for 2021.

 

[Adam84]

Exactly, they should get a cut of TV money. If they add teams and viewers to TV they should get a cut of revenue. So I would imagine all parties will discuss this if and when a TT comp gets going in whatever form it takes.

Hope NZRU has room in the budget to give up their share of the Sky TV money then. I don’t think a Moana Pasifika team based out of Auckland it going to justify the costs in the Australian market.

 

[Dan54]

Hope NZRU has room in the budget to give up their share of the Sky TV money then. I don’t think a Moana Pasifika team based out of Auckland it going to justify the costs in the Australian market.

Wanna bet? TV broadcast deals pay on matches supplied, part of RA's tv deal was that they could broadcast NZ rugby's games , and RA have stated they would take a lesser cut if NZ agreed to super with them. I pretty sure when working out what is an equitable split, it will be taken into account how many teams each conference has got. Mate doesn't matter what dreamers on here think, they are all businessmen and they will work out everyone gets a fair share on what they add or otherwise to comp!
Not sure why you and sidekicks are trying so hard to be negative about what could be a great addition to Super rugby, namely a PI team or even 2.

 

[Adam84]

Wanna bet? TV broadcast deals pay on matches supplied, part of RA's tv deal was that they could broadcast NZ rugby's games , and RA have stated they would take a lesser cut if NZ agreed to super with them. I pretty sure when working out what is an equitable split, it will be taken into account how many teams each conference has got. Mate doesn't matter what dreamers on here think, they are all businessmen and they will work out everyone gets a fair share on what they add or otherwise to comp!
Not sure why you and sidekicks are trying so hard to be negative about what could be a great addition to Super rugby, namely a PI team or even 2.

Dan, the value of broadcast rights are a little bit more complicated then just the matches supplied, especially when it comes to international tournaments where domestic fans care less for teams based in other countries. There are diminishing returns for the broadcasters with limited time slots to capitalise on the potential audience.

If RA are to take lesser money from the broadcast rights to facilitate an extra team, then they’ll want that team to be based in Australia, and rightfully so.

I’m not against a PI team, i love the Fijian Drua presence in the NRC.
But i was pragmatic about the chances a PI team in Super Rugby when NZRU first announced the concept for 2021, and that fell over.. Based on what we know I’m equally pragmatic about the chances for 2022, and I’m concerned that if its not done right and not done in partnership with all stakeholders then it could harm the future chances of a PI team.

 

[Dan54]

Dan, the value of broadcast rights are a little bit more complicated then just the matches supplied, especially when it comes to international tournaments where domestic fans care less for teams based in other countries. There are diminishing returns for the broadcasters with limited time slots to capitalise on the potential audience.

If RA are to take lesser money from the broadcast rights to facilitate an extra team, then they’ll want that team to be based in Australia, and rightfully so.

I’m not against a PI team, i love the Fijian Drua presence in the NRC.
But i was pragmatic about the chances a PI team in Super Rugby when NZRU first announced the concept for 2021, and that fell over.. Based on what we know I’m equally pragmatic about the chances for 2022, and I’m concerned that if its not done right and not done in partnership with all stakeholders then it could harm the future chances of a PI team.

Hell couldn't agree more about how careful it has to be done right, and if you listen to Robinson etc from NZR, they have said it from start and still saying it EVERYTHING has to done right.
As for TV rights, I know it more than just matches supplied, but they are huge part of it, why did NZR and RA try so hard to put on as many games as possible this year? Because content is quite a big part of the contract.
McLennan has already said (well supposedly) that RA would take a lesser percentage of cut to get NZ in the deal, so I guessing NZ will just have a slightly bigger part of the cut and pay a PI team out of that? Not sure how it works. Unfortunately for RA their TV deal with 9 requires NZ rugby tv rights, so I don't imagine they would dig toes in too deep. And a PI team will add value to both RA and NZR's tv deals in future as it will probably add viewers.

 

[hoggy]

Wanna bet? TV broadcast deals pay on matches supplied, part of RA's tv deal was that they could broadcast NZ rugby's games , and RA have stated they would take a lesser cut if NZ agreed to super with them. I pretty sure when working out what is an equitable split, it will be taken into account how many teams each conference has got. Mate doesn't matter what dreamers on here think, they are all businessmen and they will work out everyone gets a fair share on what they add or otherwise to comp!
Not sure why you and sidekicks are trying so hard to be negative about what could be a great addition to Super rugby, namely a PI team or even 2.

Well its a pity that some of those so called business people didn't speak up a bit more during the 20 years of Super rugby, then maybe they could have chucked a bit of cement at the bottom of the whole bloody house of cards, some of those dreamers weren't so far of the mark.
The big issue is whether all the vested interests don't cloud the vision of these so-called Business people.

 

[Adam84]

.
McLennan has already said (well supposedly) that RA would take a lesser percentage of cut to get NZ in the deal, so I guessing NZ will just have a slightly bigger part of the cut and pay a PI team out of that? Not sure how it works.

Would this be from one of the newspaper articles that you keep telling people not to believe?

 

[Dan54]

Would this be from one of the newspaper articles that you keep telling people not to believe?

Yep exactly why I said SUPPOSEDLY. See the difference between me and you? Although he was supposed to of been quoted I still don't really believe it unless I hear him say it!

 

[Adam84]

Yep exactly why I said SUPPOSEDLY. See the difference between me and you? Although he was supposed to of been quoted I still don't really believe it unless I hear him say it!

Where is this quote?

I’d argue Dan that the difference is my issues resonates from a formal report released by NZRU, and any quote I’ve referenced I’ve provided a direct link to. I’ve never taken journalistic license or interpretation and posted it in here, or whinged about someone else posting links to direct quotes and reference’s which refutes my argument.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

From what I have read (and only what I read) is that Fiji and MP (Moana Pasifika) have been named as preferred bids of the ones that have asked for EOI, and both have been told they got an awful lot to prove to actually join. Only reason I surprised was because I got sucked into reading and thinking some papers were being honest when they said that Fiji were aligned with RA, and would be in a so called Aus conference in a TT comp. Thought I read that in the Broadcasting deal thing with RA. I do like the idea of one going to each conference if they can a: afford to fund themselves completely, and b; Field competitive teams. Both are required I believe for them to add to the comp.

Without any Investment in Australian rugby (private equity) Fiji were never going to join oz conference. In reality the best option if people (read nzru) could take an Asia pacific view is Asia pacific trans Tasman competition with more open borders policy. But let’s not open the debate on that as we flogged our views on that and we know Dan54 thinks nzru can do know wrong whilst others like me think it is the current nzru management and board holding back growing the game in the Asia pacific to what it could be as they seem to focussed on control then a partnership approach