Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dctarget]

Not to be a downer - but in the race for points in the TT comp the kiwis play 5 Aus teams - whilst the Aus teams play 5 kiwis.

Now the historical record will show that it’s likely one, if not two, kiwi teams could go undefeated. meaning an Aus team would need to go undefeated against 5 kiwi teams to make the final. am I reading this right???

As I read it, they count points from the previous domestic competition, so the NZ teams actually have it tougher. If you're the Highlanders, you have to play 4 NZ teams twice and 5 Aus teams once.

 

[sunnyboys]

It's not possible for an Aussie and a Kiwi side to both go through undefeated.

EDIT: If an Aussie side loses one game, they'd have to win their rest to make sure they get four wins. That way is (say.) the Brumbies lose to the say Crusaders, they'll have to beat the Blues, Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes to make the finals by winning four games.

Ok... tough comp for Oz teams.

I’m not overly excited about losing domestic finals series in 2022.

As always we are back to the eternal hope of our teams improving v kiwi teams in order for our comp to be attractive to fans and sponsors alike. Bit lukewarm on that to be honest

 

[sunnyboys]

DC - I didn’t see that mentioned anywhere. Will see what I can find out. Assumed they were separate comps

 

[Derpus]

DC - I didn’t see that mentioned anywhere. Will see what I can find out. Assumed they were separate comps

Nope. The two finalists are the two teams that end up with the most accumulated points over both competitions (this will obviously have to exclude the 'finals').

 

[sunnyboys]

RA statement is a bit ambiguous:
“The Final will be played between the top two placed teams on the combined competition table” - but there is no mention of what is combined. And it’s “table” not “tables”.

I read it as Aus and nz teams combined on one table for just that comp.

We might have to wait and see on that.

 

[KiwiM]

Agreed - combined table can be easily read as the 5 Aus teams and the 5 NZ teams during this trans-tasman comp only - given they aren't playing common opponents.

 

[Derpus]

True that would be shit tho

 

[RugbyReg]

As I read it, they count points from the previous domestic competition, so the NZ teams actually have it tougher. If you're the Highlanders, you have to play 4 NZ teams twice and 5 Aus teams once.

it has been confirmed that the TT comp will start afresh. All on 0. A new competition.

 

[Derpus]

it has been confirmed that the TT comp will start afresh. All on 0. A new competition.

and its definitely just the top two on points? yikes

 

[hifflepiff]

Ok. tough comp for Oz teams.

I’m not overly excited about losing domestic finals series in 2022.

As always we are back to the eternal hope of our teams improving v kiwi teams in order for our comp to be attractive to fans and sponsors alike. Bit lukewarm on that to be honest

This is why I've always thought a domestic comp was the way to go. Who in Aus wants to watch Australian teams lose weekend on weekend followed by an all NZ finals series?

At least we'll have Super Rugby Au to garner some positive media attention before it all goes down the drain.

 

[KiwiM]

This is why I've always thought a domestic comp was the way to go, who in Aus wants to watch Australian teams lose weekend on weekend followed by an all NZ finals series?

NZ teams depth will take a hit in 2022 when the NZ-Pacific side comes in.

 

[Omar Comin']

and its definitely just the top two on points? yikes

I think it would be better if it was the top Australian team vs the top NZ team. That would keep every game Trans-Tasman, and it would mean all the teams your side is competing against for a finals berth would have the same draw.

But I can understand why NZR wouldn't go for this. If you had say 2 NZ teams with a perfect 5-0 record, and the best Australian team only won 2 games then it would seem a bit silly. It's a pity there wasn't an extra week so there could be semi finals with at least 1 guaranteed spot for each country.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The time zone thing is sensational isn't it? Basically from 27 Feb (first weekend is a double header on Friday) until 19 June we are going to have a Saturday night prime time game featuring an Aussie team - which should be on free to air

(A selected match during each week of the Trans-Tasman tournament will also be simulcast live free-to-air on the Nine Network.)

That's the type of stuff sponsors pay money for.

Too right - it's going to be a feast and I'm on board with it.

 

[KOB1987]

It’s all pretty bloody exciting I have to say. Well done RA.

 

[D-Box]

I am sure that everyone religiously follows the WF social (it is worth it) but for those who don't it is interesting how the announcement of Super Rugby AU and TT. This is the first para

Following the recent 2021 Super Rugby AU statement from the club, we can confirm that our in-principle agreement (subject to a participatory agreement being agreed to by all parties) also includes the historic Super Rugby Trans-Tasman competition that was announced by Rugby Australia on Friday 13 November.

https://www.westernforce.com.au/2021-super-rugby-trans-tasman-fixtures-revealed/

I would think an done deal but still not 100%

 

[kiap]

It's a pity there wasn't an extra week so there could be semi finals with at least 1 guaranteed spot for each country.

Maybe there is that extra week …

… if Super Rugby-Au drops the 2nd-v-3rd playoff. Straight domestic final. Then a week is regained and the TT formats are symmetrical.

Other points:

• The top Aus teams are less beaten up going into the TT comp.

• The lower Aus teams have one fewer consecutive bye weeks going into the TT comp.

 

[Rebels3]

I am sure that everyone religiously follows the WF social (it is worth it) but for those who don't it is interesting how the announcement of Super Rugby AU and TT. This is the first para



https://www.westernforce.com.au/2021-super-rugby-trans-tasman-fixtures-revealed/

I would think an done deal but still not 100%

It’s a 99.9% done deal. Let’s be honest where else are they going to go?

Awesome to see them back and hopefully it’s for the long run

 

[zer0]

Once things settle down, and a regular competition can be established, I think the TT final really should be AUS vs NZL, super bowl style. Indeed, going full mini-NFL seems a fairly logical way to go for me (and probably what they should've done a few years ago when SARU wanted teams everywhere).

Assuming both Island teams get off the ground you'll have an Australian and New Zealand division of six teams each. Each team plays everyone in its own division twice (home and away) and each team in the other division once (alternating venues) for a 16 week regular season, with 8 home matches and 8 away matches. I see the NZ franchises have said they need at least six home matches to break even. I assume that's similar for Australia, so this satisfies that with a little bit more. Not quite sure how the bye's would work in this scenario though. Even numbers mean two teams would have a bye at the same time, and I don't think there would be bye's every round, so some rounds would have one fewer match than normal.

EDIT: Would also be separate points tables across the entire season.

For the post season you could do a straight top two divisional final leading to a TT final, or run it like SRAu did this season. If time permitted I'd prefer the SRAu version. So the total season would look something like this:

REGULAR SEASON
Play against all teams within your division twice (10 matches, 5 at home)
Play against all teams within the other division once (6 matches, 3 at home)

POST SEASON
Qualifying final: Regular season 2 vs 3 (hosted by 2)
Divisional final: Winner of qualifying final vs 1 (hosted by 1)
Super Rugby TT final: Winner of divisional finals play

If the player/depth disparity ever reaches the situation it did a few seasons ago, or one division simply has a collective shitter of a season, then sure, you potentially may get the odd season where the true final is in the divisional round, but frankly I don't really care. A TT final should be just that, trans-Tasman. A Beldisloe sneak peak. Also, just run with the David vs Goliath buildup in those cases.

Someone mentioned before about shopping the TT final around like they do the super bowl. I'd be on board with this if they could generate enough commercial and fan interest. Though I'd add the caveat that the final needs to alternate between the two countries, and maybe have some sort of mechanism limiting how often a particular city hosts it (assuming you don't want every final to always be in Auckland or Sydney). Even if they can't generate enough commercial interest to shop it around, I think having the TT final location set by the unions a year ahead of each season would be beneficial (and, again, alternating between the two countries).

There's 958 pages in this thread, and several posters who are clearly familiar with the NFL/American sports, so much (probably all) of this has likely been suggested before.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think that would be a great format zer0 and I imagine RA would prefer it. I just doubt NZR will go for the divisional finals system given that with a combined ladder and finals system they'd probably expect more than 3 NZ teams to qualify most years, and that a lot of the time there'd be 2 kiwi finalists. The fact the finalists for next year's shorter TT comp will be determined by a combined ladder point to this.

 

[hoggy]

Not sure I'm a fan of playing the domestic season alongside of the TT comp it creates to much confusion if that is what's proposed. also with Australia, the game needs some clear air to promote its domestic content.

I think we should have what is being implemented (but also think 6 teams each country), domestic season followed by TT, it also gives you options regards the format of the TT, could end up pools format which may allow you to add other teams ie: Japan