Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Haven't ARU said they got a comp planned with their 5 teams and letting the Drua and maybe a Japanese team to join? You don't see the irony? Or according to the papers that evryone quoting, seems they haven't rung the Fijian RU and said lets talk about a comp, just said we might organise one , and let you and Japan put a team in.

 

[Dan54]

NZRU: "We want a 8-10 team comp featuring a PI team"
RA: "We don't want to cut one of our teams again"
NZRU: "On no, we aren't telling you to cut a team, we are simply planning for a 8-10 comp featuring a PI team and 5 kiwi teams"
RA: "yeah, but thats telling us to cut a team"
NZRU: "No, no, no, we aren't telling you to cut a team, we're just leaving it up to you as to how your teams fit within the competition we have designed"
RA: "yeah, but theres only 2 or 4 spots for us and we have 5 teams" Well we have 4 Super teams and want to have 5 as we have just added one to ours!
NZRU: "Oh wow, thats quite the predicament"
RA: "..."


NZRU: "Also, just FYI, that league-union hybrid match you guys were toying with, we are now going to do that, in Australia, at one of your home grounds, against the Australian RL team"

your last comment shows just how silly it has all got from what you think has happened.

 

[zer0]

They've said it with the options they have released.. NZRU have said they want an 8-10 team comp featuring a PI team, this leaves only 2-4 spots for Australian teams.

They've said 8-10 teams and ideally a PI team. There's a clear difference.

NZRU have designed this competition in isolation and attempted to dictate the terms of joining to Australia, this is not a partnership. RA are now working their own competition designs because of the shit NZRU have offered to them.

From what has been said/released it seems they've barely designed anything yet. All they seem to have are proposals for:

• Number of teams
• Number and nature of matches
• Ownership and regulation

As per this interviewfrom 10 days ago, Robinson himself has said:

"We're going to take a little bit more time as part of this consultation process with all of the potential different participants in this competition to work through and understand what their requirements might be. We've got some broad ideas, but to be fair to teams we want to work with, we'd like to give them some input and insight into those ideas before we move too much further".​

From this piece there's also a quote from NZR board member Bart Campbell explicitly saying they want RA as partners:

"[RA] will be our partners and fellow shareholders in this competition, if they so desire....."​

 

[Dan54]

They've said 8-10 teams and ideally a PI team. There's a clear difference.



From what has been said/released it seems they've barely designed anything yet. All they seem to have are proposals for:

• Number of teams
• Number and nature of matches
• Ownership and regulation

As per this interviewfrom 10 days ago, Robinson himself has said:

"We're going to take a little bit more time as part of this consultation process with all of the potential different participants in this competition to work through and understand what their requirements might be. We've got some broad ideas, but to be fair to teams we want to work with we'd like to give them some input and insight into those ideas before we move too much further".​

From this piece there's also a quote from NZR board member Bart Campbell explicitly saying they want RA as partners:

"[RA] will be our partners and fellow shareholders in this competition, if they so desire..."​

Hey zer0, we won't have these sensible things posted on here, it much more fun to say NZR are dictating etc. As I said, Robinson ahd said they were having a zoom meeting this week, which is absolutely not what a lot are saying on here, or that RA had said we not interested. The one beauty of it as I said earlier evryone now forgotten RA's financial position etc because they have managed to push all the anger to the NZR.

 

[Adam84]

your last comment shows just how silly it has all got from what you think has happened.

not really..
NZRU are negotiating directly with RA's biggest domestic competitor to play a game at one of Australian Rugbys home grounds, leveraging and seeking out sponsorship and endorsement from traditional RA/QRU partners.

 

[hoggy]

NZR aren't dictating to the RA, but they have made it VERY VERY clear what there position is, and what they think the RA's position should be.
They want an 8 team TT competition with a Pacific presence. This is what they think is the best option to sell to broadcasters.

(and a pacific team will give them a warm fuzzy feeling) It is also the perfect solution (considering the current situation) for the set up of New Zealand rugby.

The reality is the RA would probably like to go down that road and work on beefing up the NRC, but they have a small situation in regards to 5 into 2 simply does not fit, and after the Force debacle they can't be seen to be abandoning any other Aus entities.

The problem is that solution, just like Super rugby has never been the best long term option for Australian rugby, and as MST put a few pages back, will just ensure a continuation of the status quo.

"Aussie rugby is becoming analogous to the quintessential "dole bludger" as its colloquially referred to. It can't earn enough to support itself, always has a reason why it can't and continues to be both actively seek and be dependent on the charity of others"

 

[Adam84]

They've said 8-10 teams and ideally a PI team. There's a clear difference.

NZRU CEO actually said the inclusion of a PI team in Super Rugby 2021 was a priority for the NZRU, additionally reports leaked form NZ confirm all 3 options for 2021 in the 8-10 tournament proposal feature a PI team in the proposal.

 

[zer0]

NZRU are negotiating directly with RA's biggest domestic competitor to play a game at one of Australian Rugbys home grounds, leveraging and seeking out sponsorship and endorsement from traditional RA/QRU partners.

[Citation required]

The only source on it I've seen from NZR is their acknowledging that they've received a proposal and would consider it. That must've been a while ago now. Aside form that -- as far as I have seen -- all of the talk about the match has been from Australia's League media and, somewhat ironically, GAGR. In NZ the game must've been mentioned once or twice when it first popped up but has otherwise died a nice quick and quiet death. One might even potentially extrapolate some meaning from that.

EDIT: Actually, that should be "Australian League media, GAGR, and renowned wankery merchant Dean Lonergan".

EDIT II:

NZRU CEO actually said the inclusion of a PI team in Super Rugby 2021 was a priority for the NZRU, additionally reports leaked form NZ confirm all 3 options for 2021 in the 8-10 tournament proposal feature a PI team in the proposal.

Do you have a source for this? I've only ever seen it described as a preference.

Even then, a priority isn't a requirement nor set in stone. They can make it the number one bigliest most important alpha-omega preferential must-have priority in the world. Doesn't mean it will happen, nor does it preclude planning for alternatives.

This is before we even talk about the practicalities of having such a team setup within the next few months. I think it would be challenging for NZR to setup their own 100% controlled franchise in that time frame, and WCR has given plenty of reasons to reckon this Hawaiian proposal is all on shaky ground.

 

[Adam84]

[Citation required]

The only source on it I've seen from NZR is their acknowledging that they've received a proposal and would consider it. That must've been a while ago now. Aside form that -- as far as I have seen -- all of the talk about the match has been from Australia's League media and, somewhat ironically, GAGR. In NZ the game must've been mentioned once or twice when it first popped up but has otherwise died a nice quick and quiet death. One might even potentially extrapolate some meaning from that.

EDIT: Actually, that should be "Australian League media, GAGR, and renowned wankery merchant Dean Lonergan".

EDIT II:

Do you have a source for this? I've only ever seen it described as a preference.

Even then, a priority isn't a requirement nor set in stone. They can make it the number one bigliest most important alpha-omega preferential must-have priority in the world. Doesn't mean it will happen, nor does it preclude planning for alternatives.

This is before we even talk about the practicalities of having such a team setup within the next few months. I think it would be challenging for NZR to setup their own 100% controlled franchise in that time frame, and WCR has given plenty of reasons to reckon this Hawaiian proposal is all on shaky ground.

Nope... inclusion of a pacific island teams was expressed as a priority by NZRU CEO.
As for citation, i'm not writing a uni essay here, I'm not going to provide in-text citations for things which are easily accessible and found by a 2 sec google.

Semantics aside, clearly 11 teams don't go into 8 or 10... its blatantly clear that NZRU are investigating scenarios which see Australia have as few as 2 teams admitted into the NZ competition for 2021.

 

[Dan54]

NZRU CEO actually said the inclusion of a PI team in Super Rugby 2021 was a priority for the NZRU, additionally reports leaked form NZ confirm all 3 options for 2021 in the 8-10 tournament proposal feature a PI team in the proposal.

I agree with zer0, when did they say it was a priority for 2012, as I said I heard Robinson say they considered having a PI team in the comp was preferable, and I agree it would be great to have one there. I will see if I can find where he said them.

[

[NZRU are negotiating directly with RA's biggest domestic competitor to play a game at one of Australian Rugbys home grounds, leveraging and seeking out sponsorship and endorsement from traditional RA/QRU partners.]​

I unfortunately think by posting this you are being very dishonest, or perhaps you can tell us more about these negotiatians.​

 

[dru]

Semantics aside, clearly 11 teams don't go into 8 or 10. its blatantly clear that NZRU are investigating scenarios which see Australia have as few as 2 teams admitted into the NZ competition for 2021.

The Kiwi myopia in some of the comments, on an Australian forum, is only surpassed by their disbelief that Aussie fans might not agree.

Is does however seem like RA is on it. It will be interesting to see where things go, but on many levels it is time to split from NZRU let alone abrogating administration to an NZ comp.

 

[zer0]

Nope. inclusion of a pacific island teams was expressed as a priority by NZRU CEO.
As for citation, i'm not writing a uni essay here, I'm not going to provide in-text citations for things which are easily accessible and found by a 2 sec google.

You must have quite a lot on your plate if you can't spare two seconds to help out a borderline tech illiterate like me. Regardless, I've soldiered on and found one.

"As well, there is a huge desire to have a Pasifika team involved which we think will be massive for the competition, popular with fans and is a priority for us. As we know, our Pacific nations and Pasifika players in New Zealand have added so much to the rich history of rugby in Oceania and our game here in New Zealand. To have a team that would provide an additional pathway for Pasifika players to perform on the world stage would be hugely exciting," Robinson said."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/42...ompetition-including-pacific-team-recommended

So yep, fair play, he has described it as a priority. But then he also says it's a "huge desire". So again, nothing to suggest it's an absolute requirement/a hill they are ready to die on.

EDIT:

The Kiwi myopia in some of the comments, on an Australian forum, is only surpassed by their disbelief that Aussie fans might not agree.

Undoubtedly. You don't internet as long and far as I have without becoming at least something of a weapons-grade autist. But there's plenty of myopia on both sides, as I'm sure you're self-aware enough to realise.

 

[dru]

Undoubtedly. You don't internet as long and far as I have without becoming at least something of a weapons-grade autist. But there's plenty of myopia on both sides, as I'm sure you're self-aware enough to realise.

Sure. I'm unashamedly pro-Australian. On an Australian forum. I would not however do the same thing on a New Zealand forum.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

Question: Does anyone think the NZRU entertained the possibility that they would have to put together an eight-team rugby competition with no Australian sides? Because if all five Australian teams hold firm, they are going to have to give up this plan.

 

[Adam84]

You must have quite a lot on your plate if you can't spare two seconds to help out a borderline tech illiterate like me. Regardless, I've soldiered on and found one.

"As well, there is a huge desire to have a Pasifika team involved which we think will be massive for the competition, popular with fans and is a priority for us. As we know, our Pacific nations and Pasifika players in New Zealand have added so much to the rich history of rugby in Oceania and our game here in New Zealand. To have a team that would provide an additional pathway for Pasifika players to perform on the world stage would be hugely exciting," Robinson said."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/42...ompetition-including-pacific-team-recommended

So yep, fair play, he has described it as a priority. But then he also says it's a "huge desire". So again, nothing to suggest it's an absolute requirement/a hill they are ready to die on.

Yes I do have a lot on my plate, for me to go back and find a quote of an article takes me as much time as it takes you. Since I haven't questioned your integrity or demanded you cite and provide evidence, I think its only fair the onus then is pushed back on yourself. It shouldn't be my burden if you fail to believe other people.

Thanks, glad we now agree that the NZRU have said a PI team is a priority

 

[Adam84]

I agree with zer0, when did they say it was a priority for 2012, as I said I heard Robinson say they considered having a PI team in the comp was preferable, and I agree it would be great to have one there. I will see if I can find where he said them.

"As well, there is a huge desire to have a Pasifika team involved which we think will be massive for the competition, popular with fans and is a priority for us"
Mark Robinson, NZRU CEO
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/42...ompetition-including-pacific-team-recommended

 

[Dan54]

Yes he has always said getting a PI team in Super rugby was a priority, was just saying not sure where he said in 2021. I would kind of hope it is a priority for most countries to get PI in comps, it is for World rugby, why they paid for Drua in NRC.

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SPORT​

17 Jul 2020​

Aratipu report: New Super Rugby competition including Pacific team recommended​

​

4:18 pm on 17 July 2020 ​

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A new Super Rugby competition minus South Africa but including a Pasifika team is being promoted by New Zealand Rugby.

​

The Aratipu review has recommended a new Super Rugby competition comprising of the five New Zealand franchises, a Pasific team as well as Australian teams. Photo: Photosport Ltd 2020

The Aratipu review recommended the new competition be established from 2021.​

The competition would involve the current five New Zealand super rugby franchises and "we will also be working with Rugby Australia to seek expressions of interest from their current Super clubs and other interested parties to join the competition," said New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson.​

"As well, there is a huge desire to have a Pasifika team involved which we think will be massive for the competition, popular with fans and is a priority for us. As we know, our Pacific nations and Pasifika players in New Zealand have added so much to the rich history of rugby in Oceania and our game here in New Zealand. To have a team that would provide an additional pathway for Pasifika players to perform on the world stage would be hugely exciting," Robinson said.​

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That is the NZ write up you attached, it also clearly says there is a DESIRE to have a Pasifika team in it! It's no good attaching articles if they just prove you wrong. I cannot see one thing in there that could possibly upset anyone including working with Aus to get EOI from their existing Super clubs and other interested parties (see Force).

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ A cynic might suggest RA are setting NZR up to be the bad guy in the event they have to cut a team to remain solvent.....

 

[Dan54]

^ A cynic might suggest RA are setting NZR up to be the bad guy in the event they have to cut a team to remain solvent...

Exactly what I said when whole thing started WOB. Suppose that makes me a cynic!

 

[dru]

^ A cynic might suggest RA are setting NZR up to be the bad guy in the event they have to cut a team to remain solvent...

No. NZR required no assistance.