Where to for Super Rugby?

[KOB1987]

Two tiers, with promotion/relegation will have to be the way I think.

Yes but there would still be a heap of politicking going on with regards to who’s in and who isn’t. In principle it would be a great idea though, using Sydney as an example the 6 or so clubs who don’t make it would end up in a semi pro comp with the top half dozen clubs from Kentwell (1st division subbies), and so on down the chain. The winner of that comp would then playoff against the winners of other similar comps for the right to challenge the worst performing club in the top tier maybe every two years. In theory it would be great, not sure how practical though.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

it just comes down to

1) the season not being long enough for me to get truly invested in, there's a reason NRL and AFL seasons are longer than ours
2) SA and Arg involvement - Just don't care when we are playing them and my team fucks off for 3-4 weeks and i don't want to get up in the middle of the night to watch them
3) We never really have more than one super competitive team at a time

None of this changes by having a weird manufactured domestic league

Edit: To be fair it probably does but there's so many negatives that result from it too

Aren't all sporting leagues manufactured in some way, shape or form?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes but there would still be a heap of politicking going on with regards to who’s in and who isn’t. In principle it would be a great idea though, using Sydney as an example the 6 or so clubs who don’t make it would end up in a semi pro comp with the top half dozen clubs from Kentwell (1st division subbies), and so on down the chain. The winner of that comp would then playoff against the winners of other similar comps for the right to challenge the worst performing club in the top tier maybe every two years. In theory it would be great, not sure how practical though.

Roll the Rebels, Force and Brumbies in the competition but with a focus on sourcing talent from their respective local competition first. Potentially another team be it Newcastle or Western Sydney or whatever. Add in 8 or 9 Syd/Brisbane club teams based on if say it kicks off 2022 the 2021 standings.

As you suggest, use the remaining Syd and Brisbane based club side to form two state-wide competitions allowing potential entrants not only from the Kentwell Cup but regional squads as well.

I'd be very interested to see a more fleshed out proposal of such a competition structure. It would need serious money to be possible. Not only to pay players, staff and maintain operations but it would need a serious level of promotion in order to achieve it.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Yes but there would still be a heap of politicking going on with regards to who’s in and who isn’t. In principle it would be a great idea though, using Sydney as an example the 6 or so clubs who don’t make it would end up in a semi pro comp with the top half dozen clubs from Kentwell (1st division subbies), and so on down the chain. The winner of that comp would then playoff against the winners of other similar comps for the right to challenge the worst performing club in the top tier maybe every two years. In theory it would be great, not sure how practical though.

It would be absolutely epic.

 

[sendit]

Aren't all sporting leagues manufactured in some way, shape or form?

sure, if you look back far enough

all successful professional leagues are built on either history, buckets of money, a clear hole in the market prior or a combination of these

A domestic competition fills none of these criteria

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

sure, if you look back far enough

all successful professional leagues are built on either history, buckets of money, a clear hole in the market prior or a combination of these

A domestic competition fills none of these criteria

Right. Except the Tahs, Reds and Brumbies have at least 25 years of history with the Tahs and Reds one going back much further. The Force have a good story. From be cast out, their fight to survive and grow and then there return to the fold. The only one that hasn't got a strong story or history are the Rebels but in most cases that takes time. In regards to the market. It's an established fact in which you can track on this very site that the Aus. derbies are the highest drawing games. I'd contend that the market prefers a domestic focus. The only thing that's difficult to quantify here is the money.

 

[sendit]

Right. Except the Tahs, Reds and Brumbies have at least 25 years of history with the Tahs and Reds one going back much further. The Force have a good story. From be cast out, their fight to survive and grow and then there return to the fold. The only one that hasn't got a strong story or history are the Rebels but in most cases that takes time. In regards to the market. It's an established fact in which you can track on this very site that the Aus. derbies are the highest drawing games. I'd contend that the market prefers a domestic focus. The only thing that's difficult to quantify here is the money.

right so you want to have NSW Waratahs and a Newcastle/Western Sydney team in the same competition. That in no way shape or form will

1) Piss off existing fans
2) Confuse the absolute fuckery out of new fans

 

[KOB1987]

sure, if you look back far enough

all successful professional leagues are built on either history, buckets of money, a clear hole in the market prior or a combination of these

A domestic competition fills none of these criteria

Professionalism and the allegiance with SANZAR dragged us in a different direction. You could easily argue that if things were left to evolve the way they were going in in the early 90s we would be in a much better position with a strong domestic focus. I think a domestic comp can work, but it needs to tie in with a TT/Pacific comp, which in turn needs to tie in with the international season. The latter is after all what rugby supporters most want to watch.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

right so you want to have NSW Waratahs and a Newcastle/Western Sydney team in the same competition. That in no way shape or form will

1) Piss off existing fans
2) Confuse the absolute fuckery out of new fans

The simplest format would take the current 5 franchises maintain the Drua and elevate the two Country teams to full professionalism with direct links to the respective bodies which were established in 1947 (NSW Country) and 1965 (QLD Country) respectively. Both the Reds and Tahs have been essentially Brisbane and Sydney teams for some time now. It's not that confusing. Fairly simple actually.

 

[sendit]

The simplest format would take the current 5 franchises maintain the Drua and elevate the two Country teams to full professionalism with direct links to the respective bodies which were established in 1947 (NSW Country) and 1965 (QLD Country) respectively. Both the Reds and Tahs have been essentially Brisbane and Sydney teams for some time now. It's not that confusing. Fairly simple actually.

Dont be condescending man you've got a state team playing a city/region. For someone who's not a fan/a casual watcher that's confusing

If you want a domestic league then sweet, either make it regional and dump the state unions (which would be crazyfrom a logistics point of view) or make it state based and bring some other states into the fold

What you're advocating for just doesn't make sense to a whole lot of parties involved

 

[KOB1987]

Dont be condescending man you've got a state team playing a city/region. For someone who's not a fan/a casual watcher that's confusing

If you want a domestic league then sweet, either make it regional and dump the state unions (which would be crazy) or make it state based and bring some other states into the fold

What you're advocating for just doesn't make sense to a whole lot of parties involved

Yeah so you’d take the state out of it - Sydney Waratahs, Perth Force, etc. The fact of the matter is that purely due to the size of the player pool and supporter base both NSW and Qld need more than one team each. It’s not an easy one to solve, but a metro based team and a regional based team makes sense. You’d go where there are people for the latter though, e.g. Newcastle in NSW and Sunshine Coast or Darling Downs in Qld.

 

[sendit]

Professionalism and the allegiance with SANZAR dragged us in a different direction. You could easily argue that if things were left to evolve the way they were going in in the early 90s we would be in a much better position with a strong domestic focus. I think a domestic comp can work, but it needs to tie in with a TT/Pacific comp, which in turn needs to tie in with the international season. The latter is after all what rugby supporters most want to watch.

i agree it could very easily have gone the other way in the past and has potential to be an option in the near future. i think there's little room for error though and considerations need to be made about the impacts on both current and future stakeholders

some proposals on this forum seem to totally disregard the complex nature of forming a domestic comp and just take a "yea nah she'll be right" attitude

 

[sendit]

Yeah so you’d take the state out of it - Sydney Waratahs, Perth Force, etc. The fact of the matter is that purely due to the size of the player pool and supporter base both NSW and Qld need more than one team each. It’s not an easy one to solve, but a metro based team and a regional based team makes sense. You’d go where there are people for the latter though, e.g. Newcastle in NSW and Sunshine Coast or Darling Downs in Qld.

for sure, but don't have the Sydney Waratahs or the Brisbane Reds, don't fuck with the history of those clubs

 

[drewprint]

Yeah so you’d take the state out of it - Sydney Waratahs, Perth Force, etc. The fact of the matter is that purely due to the size of the player pool and supporter base both NSW and Qld need more than one team each. It’s not an easy one to solve, but a metro based team and a regional based team makes sense. You’d go where there are people for the latter though, e.g. Newcastle in NSW and Sunshine Coast or Darling Downs in Qld.

I’ve been thinking about this recently and the ideal spot for the Queensland Country team to be based out of would be Toowoomba. Local derbies versus the Brisbane Reds would be good fun.

Edit: sorry sendit! Haha...

Edit edit: to be clear, I overall still want a equitable TT comp. Just thinking ahead if that doesn’t happen. I think there’s no easy solutions however, and something like this may cause the least friction.

 

[Derpus]

for sure, but don't have the Sydney Waratahs or the Brisbane Reds, don't fuck with the history of those clubs

I mentioned this before but a Kiwi pointed out how dumb it is to have only a single team in each of our 'strongholds'. NRL has how many teams in Sydney? and AFL Melbourne?

Maybe we should go even further than the Sydney Waratahs. Why not the Eastern Suburbs Waratahs? then we can have a Northern Suburbs/Beaches team, a Western Sydney team and a rural NSW team.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I mentioned this before but a Kiwi pointed out how dumb it is to have only a single team in each of our 'strongholds'. NRL has how many teams in Sydney? and AFL Melbourne?

Maybe we should go even further than the Sydney Waratahs. Why not the Eastern Suburbs Waratahs? then we can have a Northern Suburbs/Beaches team, a Western Sydney team and a rural NSW team.

Sydney, North Sydney and Country.

 

[Derpus]

Look, i think i have everything figured out - i just need like, 500 million dollars, and i'll set it up great.

 

[Omar Comin']

for sure, but don't have the Sydney Waratahs or the Brisbane Reds, don't fuck with the history of those clubs

The Waratahs and Reds were originally state rep sides but haven't been state rep sides for ages. I think most people recognise that the Waratahs and Reds are the rugby equivalent of the NRL and AFL clubs.

Whether they're called NSW and QLD or Sydney and Brisbane makes no difference to me. You can still have other teams in 'their territory.' That actually builds local rivalry more than anything else IMO. It certainly worked for the A League bringing in new Sydney and Melbourne teams despite the fact Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory already existed. I think the Waratahs in particular could really benefit from having a cross town rival.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The Waratahs and Reds were originally state rep sides but haven't been state rep sides for ages. I think most people recognise that the Waratahs and Reds are the rugby equivalent of the NRL and AFL clubs.

Whether they're called NSW and QLD or Sydney and Brisbane makes no difference to me. You can still have other teams in 'their territory.' That actually builds local rivalry more than anything else IMO. It certainly worked for the A League bringing in new Sydney and Melbourne teams despite the fact Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory already existed. I think the Waratahs in particular could really benefit from having a cross town rival.

Everyone knows we need a western Sydney team - and given large pacific island community is hence why RA believe a PI side would be ideal to place in western Sydney

 

[Up the Guts]

If you’re not having state based sides then I don’t think a city vs country split generates much of a rivalry. Certainly in Sydney, West vs North vs East would have much more entrenched support. I would love to see a Randwick-Easts conglomerate get thrashed by Norths, Gordon, Northern Beaches side, Sydney vs some ethereal country side, don’t care that much.