Where to for Super Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

At some point there will be a tipping point. when Fox deals continue to shrink in line with viewing numbers - there will be a time when "something else" makes sense. Interestingly, an article last week quoted an Aus equities analyst saying he believes Foxtel is worth $0. Valuation of about $1.1b and debts of $1.7b.

at some point, the model is going to break. (however it might also just mean that Newscorp repays all debts on behalf of Fox).

Absolutely. I think there will be a tipping point and things will change.

Things may change with Foxtel after Rupert Murdoch dies but they obviously see the influence their loss makers bring on Australian politics as being important to them (The Australian and Sky News) so maybe they pay off Foxtel's debts to keep it running longer.

I think there would be merit in Rugby Australia taking a somewhat reduced deal for better exposure but there's no way that they can take no money or pay for exposure.

 

[barbarian]

ARU dropped Force because they couldn't afford 5 teams, they said it at time, there was a bit of spin afterwards, but basically that was reason!!

They still can't. But now Twiggy has put his money where his mouth is, it becomes a safer call to include the Force.

 

[ForceFan]

They still can't. But now Twiggy has put his money where his mouth is, it becomes a safer call to include the Force.

I don't understand the "now" in this comment.

Andrew Forrest stepped up when it was obvious that rugby in WA was not going to get any more support from RA.
He didn't speak out until it was obvious that the dumping of the WF from Super Rugby was likely to happen.

One/my estimate is that he's already expended >$40 million to keep a professional team in WA.
RA's contribution has been about $0.2 million/year - about the same as for SA and NT.
Forrest has recently committed an additional $5 million to promoting rugby including the establishment/support of rugby being played in government secondary schools (with David Pocock the ambassador for this initiative).
This is in addition to the existing RugbyRoos programme for primary school aged children.

Why is it "safer" to include the WF now?
The WF was invited in to SRAu to get $s for 8 more games from Foxtel at effectively no additional cost to RA.
Of course WF was available in order to keep the players playing rugby.

I suggest that, just as it's been for the past 3 years, Forrest/WF have the ability to plot a way forward which keeps the a professional team and rugby pathway available in WA.
RA has no such ability or desire as is quite obvious by its actions since 2016.

 

[Wilson]

SANZAAR partners South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina break from negotiations for lunch, after agreeing to cut the Sunwolves from Super Rugby. Not pictured: Japanese representative.

 

[Brainstrust]

For the first time in recent memory the discussion around Australian Super Rugby is turning positive.
No longer lamenting how far behind the Kiwis we are. The current coverage is championing the new kids.
Social media is abuzz with the exciting brand of rugby our teams played last weekend. Another weekend of positive play and the eye balls will come steaming back.
I rarely agree with Kafer, but he is spot on. I agree it’s time to go it alone. Twiggy wants expansion for his GRR, and here it is. He already has two PI teams with Kafiga Samoa and Fijian Latui. Possibly add another Asian team and we have a product that captures the interest of the Australian rugby public. Roll that into the type of package that Raelene was promoting with School Boy, into Shute Shield / QLD Premier Rugby, into a 5pm game then a 7pm game, and you have a very good product.
What a great chance for Aus Rugby to rediscover and rebuild itself.

 

[Dan54]

They still can't. But now Twiggy has put his money where his mouth is, it becomes a safer call to include the Force.

Yep but can RA afford the other 4 teams? Especially as they talking about bringing in top players to improve teams, and some say they not got a lot of cash at moment? I not saying they can't, I just wondering as books didn't seem that flash last year. I certainly hope they can anyway.

 

[Wilson]

Yep but can RA afford the other 4 teams? Especially as they talking about bringing in top players to improve teams, and some say they not got a lot of cash at moment? I not saying they can't, I just wondering as books didn't seem that flash last year. I certainly hope they can anyway.

It all comes back to the broadcast deal, the better the product is the more they'll be able to afford. 5 Australian teams is a significantly better product in the Australian context.

 

[KOB1987]

With still a lot of uncertainty around travel and COVID, for next year here is what I reckon should happen:

- both NZ and AU get a 6th team involved in their respective comps. For us that’s probably the Drua, for NZ it would be a prototype of the Pacifica team
- each country run their own comp for 2 rounds I.e 10 games
- if during this process it becomes apparent that TT travel can be unrestricted then the teams from each country play each other. 3 home and 3 away games each for a total of 16 rounds.
- top 2 from each country for a 4 team finals series
- if TT travel cannot be unrestricted then each country would add a third round to their local comps.

This would give each country a look at their own domestic models, and jointly a look at the TT model, assuming the third round and finals can go that way

 

[dru]

I don't understand the "now" in this comment.

Andrew Forrest stepped up when it was obvious that rugby in WA was not going to get any more support from RA.
He didn't speak out until it was obvious that the dumping of the WF from Super Rugby was likely to happen.

One/my estimate is that he's already expended >$40 million to keep a professional team in WA.
RA's contribution has been about $0.2 million/year - about the same as for SA and NT.
Forrest has recently committed an additional $5 million to promoting rugby including the establishment/support of rugby being played in government secondary schools (with David Pocock the ambassador for this initiative).
This is in addition to the existing RugbyRoos programme for primary school aged children.

Why is it "safer" to include the WF now?
The WF was invited in to SRAu to get $s for 8 more games from Foxtel at effectively no additional cost to RA.
Of course WF was available in order to keep the players playing rugby.

I suggest that, just as it's been for the past 3 years, Forrest/WF have the ability to plot a way forward which keeps the a professional team and rugby pathway available in WA.
RA has no such ability or desire as is quite obvious by its actions since 2016.

I wouldn't sweat it, FF (Folau Fainga'a). What you say is true it just isn't really what Barbarian was trying to say.

In reality the situation that Force became a "safe" franchise to back from an RA perspective was a long time ago. The circumstance around that still boil my bones so I don't doubt it is still fully relevant in WA. But circumstances have certainly changed. RA struggles to build a comp at all, let alone a method to hold commercials together.

Ever since the interruption on Super due to Covid it has been inevitable that with continued support from Forrest, the Force is the only franchise to be pretty much guaranteed a future in pro rugby in Australia - however that pans out, SRAu, TT, NDC, GRR. Force top the list in each and every case.

 

[Dan54]

Actually just throwing something else in there, I liked the sound of Kirwan's and Goldie's ideas on Breakdown, Super Aotearoa, Aus and perhaps SA, followed by a one round 'Southern Championship' with 5-6 teams from each country, in 3 pools!! So Southern championship would involve only 4-5 games, so two quick and sharp comps. Won't happen but great idea.

 

[kiap]

So Southern championship would involve only 4-5 games

Plus finals …

But those kinda ideas have been around for ages. They weren't dreamt up by those pretenders on your Breakdown show.

 

[Bandar]

Actually just throwing something else in there, I liked the sound of Kirwan's and Goldie's ideas on Breakdown, Super Aotearoa, Aus and perhaps SA, followed by a one round 'Southern Championship' with 5-6 teams from each country, in 3 pools!! So Southern championship would involve only 4-5 games, so two quick and sharp comps. Won't happen but great idea.

I think it's the best option available - include Japan also, have it as a knock out cup style or in pools

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

For the first time in recent memory the discussion around Australian Super Rugby is turning positive.
No longer lamenting how far behind the Kiwis we are. The current coverage is championing the new kids.
Social media is abuzz with the exciting brand of rugby our teams played last weekend. Another weekend of positive play and the eye balls will come steaming back.
I rarely agree with Kafer, but he is spot on. I agree it’s time to go it alone. Twiggy wants expansion for his GRR, and here it is. He already has two PI teams with Kafiga Samoa and Fijian Latui. Possibly add another Asian team and we have a product that captures the interest of the Australian rugby public. Roll that into the type of package that Raelene was promoting with School Boy, into Shute Shield / QLD Premier Rugby, into a 5pm game then a 7pm game, and you have a very good product.
What a great chance for Aus Rugby to rediscover and rebuild itself.

I like a number of others have been suggesting something similar to that for some time. Merge our Super Rugby franchises with GRR and we'd have at least 7 teams ready to go in fairly quick order. Fiji with the Drua/Lautui are already well established. Manuma Samoa less so but work could be done on that. I'd even make Manuma a combined Samoan/Tongan franchise and base them here either in Sydney or Brisbane.

The trick will be to find an 8th team. But I think we could do it if funding was found .i.e. private equity.

 

[Dan54]

Plus finals …

But those kinda ideas have been around for ages. They weren't dreamt up by those pretenders on your Breakdown show.

I know but don't get your knickers in a twist, I should of finished the whole lot, they had whole season kind of mapped out where they think you could go through Tests etc too, also included the idea of tying in end of year tests with tours with provincial games. i haven't seen where you have pools etc, but not where you separate comps then pools with mixtures from each country. Say 1 pool of Reds, Blues, Stormers, Toyota, canes or something. Well I haven't seen it anyway.

 

[sendit]

I like a number of others have been suggesting something similar to that for some time. Merge our Super Rugby franchises with GRR and we'd have at least 7 teams ready to go in fairly quick order. Fiji with the Drua/Lautui are already well established. Manuma Samoa less so but work could be done on that. I'd even make Manuma a combined Samoan/Tongan franchise and base them here either in Sydney or Brisbane.

The trick will be to find an 8th team. But I think we could do it if funding was found .i.e. private equity.

That's still a hell of a lot of leg work, on top of tv deals etc. Surely that is our plan B

 

[kiap]

I know but don't get your knickers in a twist, I should of finished the whole lot, …

Furry muff.

Anyway, if Covid keeps kicking on strong next year, then the "two quick and sharp comps" route becomes more likely. The relevant domestic comps similar to now (perhaps 6 teams), then champs comp, trickier to stage but considered a bonus.

 

[Dan54]

Don't keep reminding me about Covid , I still can't believe the stupidity of what's happened here in Australia, and how it's going to stuff us again!

 

[Dan54]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...d-rugby-s-appalling-ploy-20200721-p55e4q.html

Does this mean that NZRU has directly approached the franchises? if so - i can't think of a more underhanded approach. Or is he just referring to the press release?

I been thinking on this, was McLennan bullshitting the other night? Wasn't he saying that Robinson said they were approaching franchises with EOI, that he called Expression of Insolence? I go along with RA is pissed off, but by turning locals against NZ more and more in the press, everyone has forgotten to ask how the finances etc are going. It's the only reason I can think that current board members would be playing the press game they are. I not talking about people who are past it and chuck in opinions, like Kafe, Hansen, O'Neil etc, but actually current board is actually being quoted in press every couple of days.

 

[Derpus]

I been thinking on this, was McLennan bullshitting the other night? Wasn't he saying that Robinson said they were approaching franchises with EOI, that he called Expression of Insolence? I go along with RA is pissed off, but by turning locals against NZ more and more in the press, everyone has forgotten to ask how the finances etc are going. It's the only reason I can think that current board members would be playing the press game they are. I not talking about people who are past it and chuck in opinions, like Kafe, Hansen, O'Neil etc, but actually current board is actually being quoted in press every couple of days.

So - its an elaborate PR conspiracy rather than a simple case of NZR bypassing RA and going direct to the franchises?

Hrmmmm.

 

[dru]

Don't keep reminding me about Covid , I still can't believe the stupidity of what's happened here in Australia, and how it's going to stuff us again!

What a risible, blinkered, asinine statement. Look around the world and how things are travelling. Australia is the only middle level power with anything like this sort of success. And before you start reeling in NZ I said middle size power. NZ PM equates to roughly Clover Moore, the the international connection through flights and ships makes Sydney's achievement considerably more impressive than New Zealand.

Positive thoughts and vibes to our cohorts in Victoria.