Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

ps lets face some facts here also by suggesting a trans tasman competition and teams that participate can sign players from either country outside of more generous foreign quota's not for one minute was I suggesting NZ sides would sign much aussie talent so disappointed you are misquoting me on something I was never suggesting zero and quite the opposite.

As this is about creating a competition with more evenly balanced competitive teams which would mean in balance more NZ professional players in the competition than current status quo which was clearly messaged in what I wrote which would benefit NZ and OZ indirectly because all would benefit from better competition long term, that attracts more fans and more dollars.

If anything I am saying let Andrew Cox recruit a side 50% full of foreigners but equally lets not have a Woodward situation where they joined Rebels because they could not get a gig back amongst 5 NZ sides so we gave him opportunity but he then returned to NZ side because as only way eligible for All Blacks. And yeh if that is all that NZ can see then yep you can do your own things without us......

 

[Slim 293]

I can loan you a few of these..................

 

[Rebels3]

All I can say if Australia collapses, South Africa collapses, who will NZ have left? No media entity would pay serious money to watch them beat both by 50+ each match. No entity would pay to watch them trash and franchise system. Nz would be left with its greatest asset being the NPC. Good luck finding a fully professional system on that. That is why NZ should look at this situation very seriously. Otherwise you'll have no sponsors as there is no competition or interest in other markets, the nrl will come sniffing more than they already do and the Europeans will just sit back and think commercially you aren't worth much.

Everyone will be a loser.

 

[Rebels3]

I genuinely believe the next 3-4 months is the most important in the Southern Hemispheres history since professionalism. The wrong move could see a dangerous trend that would take a long time to reverse.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yep as what is happening in oz is fans are leaving in droves and reflected in tv ratings for Bledisloe cup games and super rugby games...so yeh NZ does actually get impacted..

As I will be frank I am like many who are watching more local product i.e. NRC and now even Shute Shield Games, then Super Rugby and Wallabies games....and given we are closest major tier 1 team this will hurt NZ. Might hurt Oz more but yep will hurt NZ.

So contrary to popular opinion this issue will affect NZ long term...and frankly the tide is clearly turning that Oz supporters are not prepared to play ball just to be in super rugby anymore as Oz fans are showing this very clearly.

NZ can do what it likes but they it will be a smaller pie as Oz fans just wont' be interested...and only ones who will be are the rusted on NZ ex pats living here....

 

[zer0]

ps lets face some facts here also by suggesting a trans tasman competition and teams that participate can sign players from either country outside of more generous foreign quota's not for one minute was I suggesting NZ sides would sign much aussie talent so disappointed you are misquoting me on something I was never suggesting zero and quite the opposite.

I didn't quote you. I extrapolated from your statement that there would be open player movement across the Tasman. You said that there would be plenty of NZL -> AUS movement. It would be logical, then, that there would also be some level of AUS -> NZL movement as well. I was simply cautioning against any hopes that, that movement would be significant in any way.

But it's getting late here, and I have no intention in continuing an argument that looks as though it's going in circles, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Quick Hands]

How hard can it be to organise a Super Rugby game at 5.30 and 7.30 on both Friday and Saturday nights for AEST? Surely with all their resources and a few logarithms in the mix they could sort that out. But no, I've got F**King NRL and no Rugby. This is shit house in the extreme. I know, lets cut some Aussie teams and have less local content so I can watch some foreigners play at odd hours - Yes that should do it.

But didn't Pulver and the ARU tell us less than 18 months ago that Super 18 and the attached broadcast agreement would be the saviour of the game in Australia?

 

[Quick Hands]

No game tonight is (a) huge hole (even I'm watching the mungoes)(b) the problem with so many time zones

I think that there's a growing realisation that super rugby has become unsustainable, with time zones being one of the inherent wekanesses.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I didn't quote you. I extrapolated from your statement that there would be open player movement across the Tasman. You said that there would be plenty of NZL -> AUS movement. It would be logical, then, that there would also be some level of AUS -> NZL movement as well. I was simply cautioning against any hopes that, that movement would be significant in any way.

But it's getting late here, and I have no intention in continuing an argument that looks as though it's going in circles, so I'll leave it at that.

No whole thesis was more open market for talent which means more nz players playing for sides including oz sides as nz has bigger and better talent pool. Quite the opposite as stating that we are better to have oz sides with more kiwis playing for then in open market if creates more even competition and better product. Why would we do that _ well because better product creates more fans, more dollars and better opportunities for all including grass roots long term. As we have a healthy competition that better competes with other football codes so be it. Yes short term means would shrink oz professional player pool slightly as more kiwi's taken on with increased overseas quotas but believe long term better option to.grow the game which then creates more opportunities for all.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[half]

I genuinely believe the next 3-4 months is the most important in the Southern Hemispheres history since professionalism. The wrong move could see a dangerous trend that would take a long time to reverse.

+ 99999999999

There is a group from Iceland called Kaleo IMO the best group around today, lead singer has a voice to die for if they were not from Iceland IMO they would today be a mega group.

Was just listening to one of there songs. The song and your post kinda went together and I hope this is not where the ARU and southern hemisphere rugby is going.

Worth a listen, especially if you like blues.

 

[wamberal]

Another match, another embarrassment. And I suppose it is all the ARU's fault, one way or another.


What a lot of hot air is blown around these days. The simple fact is that if rugby league did not exist, and had never existed, rugby would be a helluva lot stronger in Australia.


As it stands, the best athletes (or the vast majority of them) can earn far more money, and have far more employment opportunities in the other code. The code that has far more support of all kinds, cash, numbers, interest, you name it.


For people to blame the ARU for this state of affairs, which is what most seem to, is absysmally stupid.



Is there a simple answer? Only in the minds of simple people.

 

[blues recovery]

You just keep up with your ill informed ARU apologist position
Reality of Rugby in this country is that at the point of the 2003 Rugby World Cup the game was at a high and was pushing hard at the elite level to be a strong two to AFL.
Same issues with competition for the best athletes existed then as now however through all of this the game was flying
However through a series of poor administrations of the game where greed, short term thinking , state parochialism and cronyism have rained supreme ,we now have the sorry mess we are witnessing .
Now there is no easy fix . It's probably needs to come from the bottom up .
But that will mean taking a few further steps back if financial resources really are reallocated to grass roots with a long term view .
Your posts are really frustrating as you continue this Nero fiddles whilst Rome burns approach .
You clearly love the game which is something in common we all have on here I think .
However most of the anti ARU views in here include some constructive thoughts on what we can do differently to try to get out of this horror story .
Haven't heard anything from you other than "that's right keep on blaming the ARU"
So come on what's your panacea to our woes .
Or are we all over reacting and everything's actually just peachey here in la la land

 

[Braveheart81]

How hard can it be to organise a Super Rugby game at 5.30 and 7.30 on both Friday and Saturday nights for AEST? Surely with all their resources and a few logarithms in the mix they could sort that out. But no, I've got F**King NRL and no Rugby. This is shit house in the extreme. I know, lets cut some Aussie teams and have less local content so I can watch some foreigners play at odd hours - Yes that should do it.

It's due to there being a Sunday afternoon game instead.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[half]

Wam & BH

We need to change things, we need to be bold, we must have faith in the game.

from Lewis Coral

The time has come,' the Walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes — and ships — and sealing-wax —
Of cabbages — and kings —

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I genuinely believe the next 3-4 months is the most important in the Southern Hemispheres history since professionalism. The wrong move could see a dangerous trend that would take a long time to reverse.

I think you've come in at the end of the party - all of this has been brewing from the day Eddie jones took over the wallabies and O'Neil came back for his parachute.
History is littered with the wrecks of entities who did not perceive a need for change in sufficient time to address the threats.
Jones ignore the scrum and we got regularly basted and O'Neill ignore the need for a pathway, other than his to an ATM.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Wam & BH

We need to change things, we need to be bold, we must have faith in the game.

from Lewis Coral

No doubt an endangered entity with global warming.
This has all the hallmarks of Alice.

 

[Quick Hands]

Another match, another embarrassment. And I suppose it is all the ARU's fault, one way or another.


What a lot of hot air is blown around these days. The simple fact is that if rugby league did not exist, and had never existed, rugby would be a helluva lot stronger in Australia.


As it stands, the best athletes (or the vast majority of them) can earn far more money, and have far more employment opportunities in the other code. The code that has far more support of all kinds, cash, numbers, interest, you name it.


For people to blame the ARU for this state of affairs, which is what most seem to, is absysmally stupid.



Is there a simple answer? Only in the minds of simple people.

It's unfortuate that you've seen fit to personally insult people with whom you disagree, rather than to look at facts and evidence.

I understand that you have a view about those who run the game in this country. I believe that your view is misguided, but I respect your consistency of thought and your devotion to the cause.

Individual games and the results therof clearly aren't the fault of the ARU or any of the state unions. What is their fault and/or responsibility is the state of the game in this country.

From previous posts of yours, I make the assumption that you have been employed in at least some management roles in your time. That being the case, I find it a little incongruous that you can find no connection with the performance and competency of management to the performance of an organisation.

We had cash and we blew it, we had more players and supporters and we lost them, we had more press and TV interest and we lost that too. We used to get a much higher percentage of the best athletes than we do now. And yes, there may be more than one factor involved in these, but to assert as you continue to do that none of this is down to the performance of the ARU, NSWRU et al, is with the greatest respect, a fantasy.

No one said that there is a simple answer and as successive adminstrations have committed error after omision the answer becomes more and more complex.

One thing of which I am reasonably certain is that if we continue to appoint the same people and employ the same strategies, we will get the same results and they'll be poor ones.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^The ARU are paralysed by fear:

• fear of the NZRU
• fear of the SAFRU
• fear of SANZAAR
• fear of the IRB
• fear of the Fair work Commission
• fear of Folau going back to one of the other codes he has played
• fear of the players - leaving, staying, getting tired and jaded
• fear of the fans

They are addressing these in reverse order: by ridding the game of all fans they can then move onto the players.

When I was coaching W.W. Ellis I used to say that fear of making the wrong decision is a bigger enemy than making the wrong decision and then committing 100% to it: doing nothing will have a certain outcome and will be a negative, doing something even if it appears initially to be the wrong decision can be salvaged if you back it to the hilt. I may not have been right but it worked OK.

 

[TOCC]

For people to blame the ARU for this state of affairs, which is what most seem to, is absysmally stupid.
.

Wilful ignorance is pretty stupid as well.... Australia isn't the only country with competing professional sports.. some of us choose to keep our heads in the sand

 

[NTT]

Another match, another embarrassment. And I suppose it is all the ARU's fault, one way or another.


What a lot of hot air is blown around these days. The simple fact is that if rugby league did not exist, and had never existed, rugby would be a helluva lot stronger in Australia.


As it stands, the best athletes (or the vast majority of them) can earn far more money, and have far more employment opportunities in the other code. The code that has far more support of all kinds, cash, numbers, interest, you name it.


For people to blame the ARU for this state of affairs, which is what most seem to, is absysmally stupid.



Is there a simple answer? Only in the minds of simple people.

As the governing body yes they are culpable. Entirely to blame no, but as the governing body sitting on their hands while the ship sails off the cliff they are stil culpable. Pulver promised us that the broadcast deal he sold our rugby soul for was the silver bullet to save Australian rugby well into the future. It seems to have caused more problems then solutions if the media is to be believed. The ARU was the only body that signed us up to the 18 team model and now they are supposedly on the brink of killing one its own to save a foreign team.
Though i do contend they also have a solution, not the only option but a solid one. It is simply patience to let the restructured pathways to mature and become more of a production line. People argue "all of our players come from the Shute Shield bla bla bla". This in itself is proof we can not rely on the Shute Shield heading forward as the players it produces, our current crop, simply are two or three tiers below what our competitors in New Zealand develop through their embedded pathways. Its a professional sport needing professional structures and leadership from professional administrators after all.
We need to be patient while our pathways restructure matures. We dont need to cut teams, we need to be adding under 20s teams and expanding super under 20s, adding some pacific islands teams to our NRC and lastly and most importantly, get the hell out of playing in a comp where most of the content is simply ignored. Super Rugby needs to be split in 2. Oceania and Africa/Americas then crossover finals. We need our viewers watching our product in our timezone.
Its time the ARU stood up for Australia. If it pisses off our SANZAAR overlords then so be it. SANZAAR has proven itself to be caring more for profit than caring for the health of the game.
Its time to put Australia first. Put its volunteers, players and fans interests ahead of what SANZAAR force upon us. We have structured our pathways to develop better players, we just need the guts and determination to see it through.

Lets make Australian Rugby Great Again!