Where to for Super Rugby?

[Derpus]

We got open border policy, don't know who told you there isn't, any NZ player can play for Aus team. RA has a policy that each team can only field 2-3 non eligible Australian players!

Obivously any NZ player can choose to play in Australia. NZ can't prevent this from happening. They just prevent them from being eligible for the ABs.

Edit: that said i don't think opening Aus teams up to AB eligible players is necessary or will even help.

 

[Bandar]

Isn't Aus selection the same? But what in hells name gives you any idea that changing NZ's selection criteria would make any difference, because a; where is all this money to pay aforementioned players, RA props up the teams with money anyway, b; no way regardless of policy is an AB selector going to be very interested in selecting a player in an Aus team for a Bled game etc, because the Aus team (as any team) would absolutely hammer their top line player to get money's worth out of them, and they would have no interest in making players stay fit for international rugby. Why do you think that NH nations like Wales and England now do exactly the same thing, do you fellas not actually follow the game? They also do it and seem to be able to handle it. What in hell would NZ or As team's academy spend money on real top line players to then see them be encouraged to play elsewhere? And the other very moot point is how the Hell does NZ have the right to tell Aus who they have to make available or vice versa? As WOB points out there are still 120 or so Super quality players you can get from NZ, if RA was to allow more 'guest' players !

All I ask for is a fair and even competition.

If a player is selected for national duty the clubs have to release them for national training and matches - it shouldn't matter where the club is located in the competition.

It really depends on the primary purpose of the competition.

If the main aim is to get players ready for another team (All Blacks) then yes that is the path to follow, but if the main aim is to create a competition that appeals to fans and grows the game potentially becoming a revenue maker for the national unions then you can't have some rules for some teams and different rules for others.

Personally, I think we need to build a self sustaining competition where all teams are under exactly the same constraints (salary cap, limit on foreign player numbers, release of national players for national duty etc)

 

[Braveheart81]

Personally, I think we need to build a self sustaining competition where all teams are under exactly the same constraints (salary cap, limit on foreign player numbers, release of national players for national duty etc)

In prior years, I am pretty sure the Australian teams had higher wage bills than the NZ ones.

Obviously we need to be able to fund them going forward but would an equal salary cap and the ability to sign whoever actually make the NZ teams stronger?

 

[hifflepiff]

Even if the Australian teams could sign the top NZ players would it really benefit us? We'd surely be paying overs to lure any of them across here and losing out at the other end by having less money to sign the rest of the team.

The Australian teams would definitely improve by signing more NZ players at the middle and bottom end of our squads either Mitre 10 Cup players who can't get Super Rugby gigs or guys who don't make the starting XV who could be offered more opportunity.

Agreed.

Additionally, every dollar spent on an All Black is another dollar not spent on retaining Australian rugby's best up and coming talent or funding grassroots development. Buying overpriced and likely older NZ players isn't going to do anything for Australia long term.

 

[Brumbieman]

The Kiwi concern is just daft.

FFS, even if the Force and Rebels aren't quite up to it, it's pretty easy to just hire some of the Argentinians going spare atm to bring them up to standard.

 

[Wilson]

The Kiwi concern is just daft.

FFS, even if the Force and Rebels aren't quite up to it, it's pretty easy to just hire some of the Argentinians going spare atm to bring them up to standard.

I think it's as much about control as it is quality. If they start the comp out with a clear majority of NZ teams then it's their competition. They can then slowly bring in more Australian teams under their own terms, without ever having to sacrifice control. With a 5 and 5 split from the start it's hard for them to claim a dominant share of the resulting competition and as a result they'd have to work with us, rather than dictating terms.

That's not say quality and competitiveness of teams aren't real issues, just that they'd rather use them as an excuse to get the format they want, instead of looking for solutions that would upset that.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...s-way-better-off-without-the-bludging-aussies

Surely its time we go it alone, f--k the economics.

 

[Derpus]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...s-way-better-off-without-the-bludging-aussies

Surely its time we go it alone, f--k the economics.

Pretty sure that bloke's reputation in NZ is as glittering as Kearns' is here.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ that's putting it very mildly (like a pinch of
curry powder in a 20-litre stock pot mild) & it's entirely possible that in a weeks time he'll come up with Five Reasons Why Australian Rugby Should Go It Alone.

 

[Dan54]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...s-way-better-off-without-the-bludging-aussies

Surely its time we go it alone, f--k the economics.

If you decide how a rugby union comp is run because of an article by this idiot hoggy, you deserve to get whatever shit comes your way!!! If you ever heard of Stephen Jones who absolutely rubbishes anything SH , well his dad taught Jones how tp write I think, and passed on his genes to his son!

 

[Dan54]

One other question who are all these NZ topline players that are available to be contracted anyway, most are tied to their NZ frachises until after 2023 WC!

 

[Quick Hands]

If you decide how a rugby union comp is run because of an article by this idiot hoggy, you deserve to get whatever shit comes your way!!! If you ever heard of Stephen Jones who absolutely rubbishes anything SH , well his dad taught Jones how tp write I think, and passed on his genes to his son!

Although leaving aside the hyperbole and the inflammatory stuff, he makes valid points about the value of parochialism in sport and his point about TT netball also has relevance to TT rugby (roles being reversed).

 

[Derpus]

One other question who are all these NZ topline players that are available to be contracted anyway, most are tied to their NZ frachises until after 2023 WC!

I think more than anything the Australian sides need depth. I can see less favoured NZ players taking up a contract to try and prove themselves.

I see absolutely no benefit to either NZ or Aus in having All Blacks playing for Australian sides though.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

We got open border policy, don't know who told you there isn't, any NZ player can play for Aus team. RA has a policy that each team can only field 2-3 non eligible Australian players!

By open borders I mean eligible for All Black selection as long as play in super rugby (or trans Tasman competition)

 

[Quick Hands]

International Festival of Rugby in London set for Nov 2020 featuring 6N plus Japan and Fiji set to inject money into the 8 competing unions.

This will replace the inbound tours of the SANZAAR nations.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-morning-headlines-wales-set-18585564

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Even if the Australian teams could sign the top NZ players would it really benefit us? We'd surely be paying overs to lure any of them across here and losing out at the other end by having less money to sign the rest of the team.

The Australian teams would definitely improve by signing more NZ players at the middle and bottom end of our squads either Mitre 10 Cup players who can't get Super Rugby gigs or guys who don't make the starting XV who could be offered more opportunity.

But they need to be eligible for all blacks as otherwise any of those who are invested in become good players know otherwise they need to return to nz to be eligible for all blacks. Otherwise does not work for me

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Even if the Australian teams could sign the top NZ players would it really benefit us? We'd surely be paying overs to lure any of them across here and losing out at the other end by having less money to sign the rest of the team.

The Australian teams would definitely improve by signing more NZ players at the middle and bottom end of our squads either Mitre 10 Cup players who can't get Super Rugby gigs or guys who don't make the starting XV who could be offered more opportunity.

I think it could benefit by fact you sign quality players it attracts the fans but this should be on case by case basis of profile and fan attraction / revenue generating capacity vs dollars would cost. I think it is silly though to suggest high profile players with star profile would not benefit our game

 

[Rugbynutter39]

^ as previously noted, AB selection policy only applies to the ~50 in the AB frame at any given time. There's nothing to stop an Australian franchise signing someone from the ~120 who aren't in the frame & most likely never will be. Yet with very few exceptions your franchises don't sign them & when they do there's people on here complaining that, for example, 2/5 franchises have 10's who aren't Wallabies-eligible.

You kiwis stick together - let’s stop pls as fact is choosing these players come with risk that for the odd one that unearth that can rise to the next level will bugger off back to nz with hopes of making an all black squad. Let’s stop this debate as you kiwis always think it is a non issue and most of us aussies disagree for reasons previously outlined.

 

[dru]

I think more than anything the Australian sides need depth. I can see less favoured NZ players taking up a contract to try and prove themselves.

I see absolutely no benefit to either NZ or Aus in having All Blacks playing for Australian sides though.

This and similar discussions related to Aus teams getting better value from mid level non AB Kiwis are missing the key here.

Any Kiwi starting his pro career will naturally want to keep the door open to possible future rep honours. They can’t do that in Aus. The current ABs will not likely be exactly the same ABs at the next World Cup.

 

[hoggy]

If you decide how a rugby union comp is run because of an article by this idiot hoggy, you deserve to get whatever shit comes your way!!! If you ever heard of Stephen Jones who absolutely rubbishes anything SH , well his dad taught Jones how tp write I think, and passed on his genes to his son!

The guys been writing opinion pieces for Stuff for ages now, and this is just another of those tit for tat we're better than you ones, but the articles has some genuine points, its about the games meaning something, tribalism or whatever you want to call it.

My point is we've tied ourselves to this absolute clusterfuck of a competition Super rugby 20 years now and struggle to get 2 men and dog watching the game here, and he's right if it is a TT we should only have 2 or 3 teams at most.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i just reckon that rugby in this country should grow a set of balls and and finally learn to walk on its own two feet or we'll forever be tied at the hips and just making up the numbers.

And yes economically it'll be fucking scary, but sooner or later ya gotta sober up