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Where to for Super Rugby?

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WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
When Super Rugby first started, I loved games against the SA teams. Would even get up in the wee hours to watch them live. It was a novelty and interesting to see our best vs their best. I'd still like our teams to play against theirs, but it needs to be kept to a minimum to keep it novel and fresh.


My issue has more to do with the structure and how it impedes any possibilities of developing continuity and therefore value in the competition. I would prefer to see everyone compete domestically separately and combine for a short Cup competition at the end.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
My issue has more to do with the structure and how it impedes any possibilities of developing continuity and therefore value in the competition. I would prefer to see everyone compete domestically separately and combine for a short Cup competition at the end.

And fully understand that reasoning, though I a fan of round robin style so everyone is playing each other,I don't believe in a post Covid 19 it will happen, so perhaps this is best way.
 

Joe King

Dave Cowper (27)
I think being an Australian, it's hard not to envy something that NRL and AFL have - that accessibility to viewers, consistency, popularity, and local rivalry with people and places you know. Those factors make it easy for a sport to build tradition and become established within the cultural fabric of society.

I remember in the early days of social media on rugby forums, plenty of kiwi and SA fans also longed for their traditional domestic teams and competitions for the same reasons, which had now been slide-lined by Super Rugby. And it was easy to empathise with them. There was something special about the NPC and CC. NZ and SA still have those comps of course, but they're no longer the same. I understand why they needed to move to Super Rugby for financial reasons. But it's still sad.

Super Rugby from the very beginning should have been 3 domestic comps with the best team(s) from each coming together for a short period at the end as the icing on the cake. Then we could have had the best of both worlds. As a fan, it makes it simple because you follow just one team in your own domestic competition and then go for ultimate glory in a short champions league. But the key is for the icing to remain the icing and not become the whole cake. Super Rugby was exciting when it first started, but its very structure was the seed of its own downfall. It was all icing with no cake.

Starting with 3 domestic comps would have given Australia the chance to build its own national domestic comp to gain ground on the other codes (especially if it were already established during our golden era during the late 90's and early 2000's). But alas, we needed the money, and Super Rugby was the key to that. There was something special in the air when the ARC kicked off in 2007, but it wasn't to be. Now, as helpful as the NRC is in the role that it plays, it's very hard for it to get established as anything more than a development comp when it isn't the main game.

When Super Rugby first expanded with the Force and then Melbourne, I was cheering because I thought we would eventually morph into 3 domestic structures followed by an international component. But I think because NZ and SA already had their domestic structures firmly in place, they never intended on that. And without moving in that direction, there were too many compromises and the whole comp just got ugly.

But now, here we are. A crisis has hit us through the coronavirus. And even though it has caused damage, there is the potential for something better to emerge.

(Apologies to those who liked Super Rugby the way it was. I understand that Super Rugby was working pretty well for many fans, and particularly for NZ rugby overall).

edit: sorry Dan, just noticed your post above mine. Yeah, I can totally understand you preferring a round robin over the conference system. In hindsight, I can see that was better than what we ended up with.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
A round robin only works if the comp structure allows steady and predictable timetables, broadcasting and regular home games. All of NZ, RSA and Aus franchises were in down trend against numerous benchmarks, franchise funds through the door and home crowds being obvious. The impact has just been worse here.
 

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
Historically wasn't Australia not really having a domestic competition along the lines of CC/Mitre 10 part of the thinking behind Super rugby. Also economically it has always suited NZ to have 4/5 professional teams.

But moving forward, there still does not seem much desire especially from the RA to shift away from that model, yes all sorts of discussions around whats best and moving forward blah,blah. But you don't really see that desire for it to change. Part of that must be who benefits from the current structure, self interest rules.

I can see a crowded Test calendar next year and Super 12 or 14, everyone may want change but rugby here will be to busy surviving.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Another factor that has hurt Super Rugby is just the huge loss of talent.

In the peak years of Super 12/14 all the top players were involved. Test level players (and those around the fringes of test level) didn't go overseas until the end of their careers. I think that compensated for some of the negatives of the Super Rugby model. Now there's so many players who would be good enough to be starting in Super Rugby that are playing in Europe and Japan.

Given the money on offer overseas I don't think there's really any way to go back to what it was without significant concentration of teams. Which means cutting more teams, losing a lot of fans and reducing the reach of professional rugby.
 

stoff

Trevor Allan (34)
And fully understand that reasoning, though I a fan of round robin style so everyone is playing each other,I don't believe in a post Covid 19 it will happen, so perhaps this is best way.
It was the conference system that changed things for me regarding SA. If the country was located where Japan or Indonesia is, I wouldn't feel the same, but sending a team off on what invariably becomes a three week tour just disjointed the season too much, especially if you are attending home games live and the opposition sports are home every other week. At the start of Super 12 I agree it worked, but the global rugby landscape has moved too far. I suspect Covid-19 will force Sanzaar to make a move I this respect. Aus and NZ have had good success so far with the disease and there is talk of an open border. I don't think South Africa will be able to suppress it anywhere near as quickly, although early indications seem to be ok. Africa will be a danger region for a long time and if a vaccine is still over 12 months off if ever, their 2021 participation is also in significant doubt.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Another factor that has hurt Super Rugby is just the huge loss of talent.

In the peak years of Super 12/14 all the top players were involved. Test level players (and those around the fringes of test level) didn't go overseas until the end of their careers. I think that compensated for some of the negatives of the Super Rugby model. Now there's so many players who would be good enough to be starting in Super Rugby that are playing in Europe and Japan.

Given the money on offer overseas I don't think there's really any way to go back to what it was without significant concentration of teams. Which means cutting more teams, losing a lot of fans and reducing the reach of professional rugby.
Apparently delays on a deal is because around 6 top players asked for 6 months contracts playing o-s to make up cuts - so will be further drain...
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Interesting to see when and what is being planned super rugby wise for oz..see reports of starting super rugby and RC at same time which means maybe RA not looking for its own bubble comp to start in June per same target for nrl.

Either way they put on some pro rugby be that a domestic 5/6 team competition in a bubble etc i will sign up to kayo to watch
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Interesting to see when and what is being planned super rugby wise for oz..see reports of starting super rugby and RC at same time which means maybe RA not looking for its own bubble comp to start in June per same target for nrl.


I think everyone is trying to come up with ways to fulfill their existing broadcast agreements so they get paid.

That is why Channel 9 are happier for there to be no NRL this year (and save themselves $130m) than have a substandard season played in empty stadiums.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
NRL confirmed to start May 28 and start training 22 May (apparently).

No reason a domestic comp here can't do the same?

RA said this "Rugby Australia and its State and Territory Member Unions have made the collective decision to further postpone Community Rugby across the country until at least June 1.

All Rugby activity including matches, training and face-to-face education courses will not be conducted during this period."

But they could start with a pro comp and then start the community stuff later???? Feasible?
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
It all depends on the detail, though. There has been a lot of talk about isolating all the NRL teams in a closed location. Would we do the same? (seems a bit unlikely to me).
 

Dismal Pillock

Michael Lynagh (62)
Mrs Wamberal and I have always enjoyed the cross-dutch encounters
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Dan54

David Wilson (68)
It seems Razor is talking that NZ super teams are going to have a 10 week comp, no final etc just first past the post! Just enough to get my hopes up here!
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
^ double round robin only takes eight weeks so what happens in weeks 9 & 10? Trans-Tasman Champions SF & GF? Possible that TT flights will have resumed by then (interesting that ScoMo is talking that up far more than Jacinda & (NZ Finance Minister) Grant Robertson who seem lukewarm at best on the idea).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
^ double round robin only takes eight weeks so what happens in weeks 9 & 10? Trans-Tasman Champions SF & GF? Possible that TT flights will have resumed by then (interesting that ScoMo is talking that up far more than Jacinda & (NZ Finance Minister) Grant Robertson who seem lukewarm at best on the idea).


There are only 8 games per team in a double round robin but with 5 teams you need 10 weeks because there is a bye every week.
 
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