Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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half
Dick Tooth (41)
Guys Guys Posters others.
Waltz Disney as part of his Disneyland empire had Fantasy Land.
The revenue from the media and our existing broadcasting agreements look like ending. If and it appears likely it happens most sponsors with big cheques will also go without a mainstream broadcasting agreement.
At what stage will the penny drop we either change or we die. No union in Australia or NZ and or no team in Australia or NZ has the capital to carry on with such a large slice of revenue loss. Further most stadiums we use are expensive.
No existing model has the wherewithal to correct decades of mismanagement when I continue to read posts that infer, a change to this and add a bit to the NRC or whatever can work I just shake my head.
If we want to survive in any meaningful sense then we need private funding with investors with both deep pockets and business ability. For that to work we need as model. You all know my thoughts on what model to use.
Gnostic posted a while back has professional rugby past the point of no return, I honestly believe if we don’t have a complete and total change in direction we are gone. In may ways I am tired of sounding the alarm bell, but it seems as another reality hits we move a few more steps, I mean this forum rather than RA. There is only a very limited time for us to set up a new business model as the appeal to do so slips a little each month.
Waltz Disney as part of his Disneyland empire had Fantasy Land.
The revenue from the media and our existing broadcasting agreements look like ending. If and it appears likely it happens most sponsors with big cheques will also go without a mainstream broadcasting agreement.
At what stage will the penny drop we either change or we die. No union in Australia or NZ and or no team in Australia or NZ has the capital to carry on with such a large slice of revenue loss. Further most stadiums we use are expensive.
No existing model has the wherewithal to correct decades of mismanagement when I continue to read posts that infer, a change to this and add a bit to the NRC or whatever can work I just shake my head.
If we want to survive in any meaningful sense then we need private funding with investors with both deep pockets and business ability. For that to work we need as model. You all know my thoughts on what model to use.
Gnostic posted a while back has professional rugby past the point of no return, I honestly believe if we don’t have a complete and total change in direction we are gone. In may ways I am tired of sounding the alarm bell, but it seems as another reality hits we move a few more steps, I mean this forum rather than RA. There is only a very limited time for us to set up a new business model as the appeal to do so slips a little each month.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
I do feel the decline and loss of such large number of rugby fans etc means I do feel it will be extremely difficult to win back fans. ie. I think we may well have gone past point of return that making any sort of significant recovery will be extremely difficult.
I think this World League and collaborating with GRR has become critical as these are the only options offered that come with better commercial models. Even if this was to happen I think one has to be kidding themselves that this then makes it an easy road and danger is at higher levels they believe this and whittle away any short term respite.
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
The Issue I have with the new world league is will it just allow a continuation of the same. If the RA have some financial stability what then changes. Do they just cobble together Super rugby version 2021.
Don't get me wrong I support the concept of the world league, but unless there is genuine desire to change things I can just see the RA putting all there eggs in the world league basket and shoving out some bullshit "mission statement".
I think Super rugby as a product is broke beyond repair, and simply to tainted to supporters or sponsors to be able to generate any recovery of support for rugby.
Not saying don't still use the current teams or such, but just a continuation of Super rugby come 2021 would IMO be the worst possible outcome for the game here.
Don't get me wrong I support the concept of the world league, but unless there is genuine desire to change things I can just see the RA putting all there eggs in the world league basket and shoving out some bullshit "mission statement".
I think Super rugby as a product is broke beyond repair, and simply to tainted to supporters or sponsors to be able to generate any recovery of support for rugby.
Not saying don't still use the current teams or such, but just a continuation of Super rugby come 2021 would IMO be the worst possible outcome for the game here.
RebelYell
Arch Winning (36)
You've hit the nail on the head. They gambled on the World League getting up to fill their coffers, so that they're not as reliant on the broadcast revenue on Super Rugby. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be trying to improve it AS WELL as getting the World League up...
And until the NH nations sign on the dotted line, I'll continue to be skeptical about it getting up...
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Yep and you will hear it here. If World League gets up and RA just trot out current version of Super Rugby with round robin minus the Sunwolves and think that is all that is required, I will personally get on board the Alan Jones bandwagon and lead a change petition for the whole of RA board and Executive to be removed. As I think that would be enough for me to do something rather than just stand by and watch the train wreck to oblivion continue.
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
Interesting article in the Australian this morning by Wayne Smith, all a bit speculative, but where theirs fire.......
Comes from John Edwards WA chief, saying not impossible the Force returning to Super rugby. But what was most interesting was his complete trashing of the Super rugby model, "the fundamentals of the Tournament are a basket case".
Comes from John Edwards WA chief, saying not impossible the Force returning to Super rugby. But what was most interesting was his complete trashing of the Super rugby model, "the fundamentals of the Tournament are a basket case".
andrewM
Herbert Moran (7)
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
Which maybe highlights just how much Super rugby has sunk in the last couple of years.
But what was more interesting was his thoughts moving forward regardless of GRR or Super rugby you can't ignore the fundamentals of putting in place the right building blocks for any competition to survive long term.
SteveWA
Charlie Fox (21)
The Force wasn't lecturing anyone, the professional game in WA is run by Mindaroo and not by RugbyWA. Whether Mr Edwards was speaking on behalf of Rugby WA or personally is another question.
sunnyboys
Bob Loudon (25)
and yes Super Rugby is toast. a failed competition in Australia. and RA and state unions have found themselves in a mighty catch 22. leave it and they go broke quickly. stay and they go broke slowly.
what is quite clear is that crowds and viewers have already made up their minds...
what is quite clear is that crowds and viewers have already made up their minds...
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The funny thing is I think if we dig down in the financials we would find that Super Rugby is a loss maker and has been for years, that is there for a product filler leading to the supposed money earner of the TRC. The broadcast deals and sponsorships are more to minimize the loss.
The bigger problem and one I did not address properly in my earlier post is I think that Pro test rugby in Australia is also under severe pressure and is financially rewarding for a very small number of players, certainly not the player base needed to maintain a competitive national team. A small drop in revenue from in bound Rugby tests and the TRC broadcast revenue, which the latter is most certainly coming, will impact massively on the viability of the National Union.
Since 2009 I have been harping on about the ethics of the decisions the ARU/RA have made and how each unethical decision has long term effects. As an example we have the Giteau law, which I have always held devalued National selection and we are seeing another example of that with the Skelton rumored selection for the RWC. There are a number of players who have left Australia over the past few years, players who would have been serious contenders for the Wallabies is we had a truly competitive selection process, such as Liam Gill.
There is a massive disconnect between the amateur game and the pro game, and while this is my subjective observation from the competition I am involved in, I have spoken to plenty of people from other parts of NSW to form the view that this subjective observation is repeated to a large degree across the state. My great fear is that the collapse of the Pro game and the Unions RA & State will leave the amateur and junior game without access to Insurance and the other structural requirements to run the game at the level that is the real heart of the game.
If the Tahs and Wallabies disappeared tomorrow I don't know that I'd be that upset, I'd have some nice vintage jerseys from some defunct teams but I am now dis-invested when before I was a complete fanatic (to the point of missing a family wedding because a test was on).
The bigger problem and one I did not address properly in my earlier post is I think that Pro test rugby in Australia is also under severe pressure and is financially rewarding for a very small number of players, certainly not the player base needed to maintain a competitive national team. A small drop in revenue from in bound Rugby tests and the TRC broadcast revenue, which the latter is most certainly coming, will impact massively on the viability of the National Union.
Since 2009 I have been harping on about the ethics of the decisions the ARU/RA have made and how each unethical decision has long term effects. As an example we have the Giteau law, which I have always held devalued National selection and we are seeing another example of that with the Skelton rumored selection for the RWC. There are a number of players who have left Australia over the past few years, players who would have been serious contenders for the Wallabies is we had a truly competitive selection process, such as Liam Gill.
There is a massive disconnect between the amateur game and the pro game, and while this is my subjective observation from the competition I am involved in, I have spoken to plenty of people from other parts of NSW to form the view that this subjective observation is repeated to a large degree across the state. My great fear is that the collapse of the Pro game and the Unions RA & State will leave the amateur and junior game without access to Insurance and the other structural requirements to run the game at the level that is the real heart of the game.
If the Tahs and Wallabies disappeared tomorrow I don't know that I'd be that upset, I'd have some nice vintage jerseys from some defunct teams but I am now dis-invested when before I was a complete fanatic (to the point of missing a family wedding because a test was on).
ForceFan
Peter Fenwicke (45)
John Edwards is Chairman of RugbyWA.
He is in no position to represent "the Force lecturing others about finances and how to run a comp".
The Western Force is the professional club run by Minderoo (Andrew Forrst's private company) and is currently involved in the Pacific Showcase Series and next year will be playing in Global Rapid Rugby.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Gnostic, I have rarely other than been interested in your posts. I'm going to cogitate on this.
Thank you.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
sunnyboys
Bob Loudon (25)
From Pravda aka rugby.com.au
“Rugby Australia CEO Raelene Castle says there's no "magic bullet" to reviving Super Rugby crowds after a number of disappointing turnouts in 2019.
Average crowds for Super Rugby have been low this season, with conference leaders the Brumbies battling to get more than 8000 to home games and the Waratahs, Reds and Rebels all struggling to attract big crowds this season.
Castle said a move back to a straight round robin structure from a three-conference system in the next broadcast deal, beginning in 2021, would be a step in the right direction when it comes to crowds.”
This tells you everything you need to know about the “vision” for oz rugby
“Rugby Australia CEO Raelene Castle says there's no "magic bullet" to reviving Super Rugby crowds after a number of disappointing turnouts in 2019.
Average crowds for Super Rugby have been low this season, with conference leaders the Brumbies battling to get more than 8000 to home games and the Waratahs, Reds and Rebels all struggling to attract big crowds this season.
Castle said a move back to a straight round robin structure from a three-conference system in the next broadcast deal, beginning in 2021, would be a step in the right direction when it comes to crowds.”
This tells you everything you need to know about the “vision” for oz rugby
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
If Castle thinks that just moving to a round robin Super Rugby competition minus the Sunwolves (read time zone friendly cf SA rugby sides) and less domestic home games, then I am aghast how of touch she and RA are with what is needed here to revive our professional game rather than just let it slide into oblivion. At this rate we will end up with MLR style crowds of 3-4K and expect Castle and RA will still be singing the positives of Super Rugby as the SS Titantic continues its slow sink to the bottom.
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