Where to for Super Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

In fact many have argued that funding is now at such a level that the grassroots would not notice much if the Wallaby and Super rugby gravy train ended.

Dollar wise that would be true in lots of grassroots areas.

I'm not sure the impact beyond that wouldn't be severe though.

Would many kids still play rugby in Australia if there was no domestic professional opportunity and fewer heroes they wanted to emulate?

 

[sunnyboys]

Regarding the international nature of rugby being a drawcard. I think this is true at test level - as it must be as only countries can play tests! But i think this is totally oversold as a drawcard for Super Rugby. The side effects it brings to tv viewing and scheduling definitely outweigh any perceived benefits. the gaps between home games for some teams can extend up to 4 weeks. and the same amount of time just to get your team playing at a suitable time of day.
poor scheduling makes it harder to win fans. Super Rugby has the worst of the winter codes in oz by a long shot.

 

[hoggy]

Regarding the international nature of rugby being a drawcard. I think this is true at test level - as it must be as only countries can play tests! But i think this is totally oversold as a drawcard for Super Rugby. The side effects it brings to tv viewing and scheduling definitely outweigh any perceived benefits. the gaps between home games for some teams can extend up to 4 weeks. and the same amount of time just to get your team playing at a suitable time of day.
poor scheduling makes it harder to win fans. Super Rugby has the worst of the winter codes in oz by a long shot.

This I agree with, so many go on regards the international flavor of the competition and its so called inherent advantage over the other codes, when in reality it is very much the opposite.

Test rugby is different, but I would argue that at Super rugby level this is a distinct dis advantage against the other codes and just highlights how much that so called revenue is a poisoned chalice

 

[dru]

Dollar wise that would be true in lots of grassroots areas.

I'm not sure the impact beyond that wouldn't be severe though.

Would many kids still play rugby in Australia if there was no domestic professional opportunity and fewer heroes they wanted to emulate?

So you have concern not in the short term but the longer. But the expectation would be that a Super alternativer might have short term pain (need to compare this to the pain we are well into anyway) for a longer term win.

It all works on that scale.

 

[barbarian]

This I agree with, so many go on regards the international flavor of the competition and its so called inherent advantage over the other codes, when in reality it is very much the opposite.

Test rugby is different, but I would argue that at Super rugby level this is a distinct dis advantage against the other codes and just highlights how much that so called revenue is a poisoned chalice

I think playing SA sides is a drag, yes. NZ teams? I'm not sure. Attendance at local games when the Crusaders, Chiefs or Canes come to town is generally quite strong, and the TV ratings are healthy as well.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

So you have concern not in the short term but the longer. But the expectation would be that a Super alternativer might have short term pain (need to compare this to the pain we are well into anyway) for a longer term win.

It all works on that scale.

Again, it was a response to one point regarding whether the grassroots would actually miss the Wallabies being successful because they see barely any of the money anyway.

The only way I see a domestic competition being successful is it would need private investors with very deep pockets who are prepared to run up very significant losses over a number of years to give it a chance to grow. Hopefully it happens. We need this sort of investment in the game.

I don't think there is an option whereby you have a bare bones NRC level league and just hope it grows organically. I think the game is well and truly dead here before that has a chance to happen.

 

[Strewthcobber]

What many argue is the balance of that distribution of revenue. We need $100 to feed the family a $1.

In fact many have argued that funding is now at such a level that the grassroots would not notice much if the Wallaby and Super rugby gravy train ended.

I reckon you're underestimating both how much funding is directed directly and indirectly from pros to development officers at state union level, and also the impact those guys have on a rugby community

 

[sunnyboys]

Barbarian - I would agree on the NZ crowds/viewer numbers in a relative sense compared to SA. But over the long term all oz teams have seen significant falls in crowds and viewers no matter who they play.

The real problem with the NZ side of the equation is that we can go years between wins! decades in Bled terms! which is a whole other problem of playing NZ teams at Super Rugby and test level so much. doesn't leave oz fans with too many "feel good" moments.

 

[hoggy]

I think playing SA sides is a drag, yes. NZ teams? I'm not sure. Attendance at local games when the Crusaders, Chiefs or Canes come to town is generally quite strong, and the TV ratings are healthy as well.
.

Yes in part due to the high level of Kiwi expats in OZ, but in other ways it often masks some of the weaknesses.

Australian rugby's biggest challenge is trying to grow its popularity in those so called Aussie suburbs, because that's where it struggles. Private School, elitist, stuck behind a TV pay wall,

What do they say the invisible code. How do we change that.

 

[hoggy]

I reckon you're underestimating both how much funding is directed directly and indirectly from pros to development officers at state union level, and also the impact those guys have on a rugby community

It would be interesting to see what proportion of spending compared to say AFL/NRL, Union diverts to the grassroots.

 

[Braveheart81]

It would be interesting to see what proportion of spending compared to say AFL/NRL, Union diverts to the grassroots.

It is way below AFL because we don't have the overall scale to create the sort of surpluses they do. That has been one of our major problems. Rugby has always been a relatively small sport in Australia and the competitive advantage we had was we didn't have to pay our players and then that changed.

The game has become less exclusive since then though. Sure, most of the players still go to exclusive private schools but more of them get there on scholarships etc. and come from far more modest backgrounds.

Previously for a lot of players the only way you could afford to play the game at the top level was because you had the sort of family background that could support it, send you to uni to get a career and not have to work etc.

Professionalism has meant that a lot of people who would have never been able to make that sort of commitment can because they get paid for it.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It would be interesting to see what proportion of spending compared to say AFL/NRL, Union diverts to the grassroots.

No doubt it wouldn't be close - but they have money and we don't. As to the magnitude - the problem is everyone always focuses on RA when the bulk of the spend is at state union level.

 

[wamberal]

This week's episode of "Back Roads" on the ABC was set in Robinvale, a small town in north western Victoria.



The sport of choice is AFL, but there are a number of Islanders living there, and the AFL/NRL has funded a female development officer to work with the kids.


I wonder how many development officers the AFL/NRL is able to fund nationally? A lot more than we can, that is for sure.

 

[joeyjohnz]

I reckon you're underestimating both how much funding is directed directly and indirectly from pros to development officers at state union level, and also the impact those guys have on a rugby community

I honestly reckon the best course of action is a 10 team quasi-domestic comp. Quite literally NRC but with KNOWN brands and more pacifika.
Samoa, Tonga, Fiji + the 5 Super Rugby sides, a 2nd Brisbane & a 2nd Sydney team. Tahs never resonated with anyone west of Anzaac parade, so call the 2nd team Western Sydney. Call the 2nd QLD team Southside.

Accept that we're going to lose a plethora of professional players. We're already losing them; once the broadcast deal for whatever iteration of Super Rugby takes hold - we'll be losing even more due to its pathetic ratings. Set the maximum wage at $120k. That means we'd be spending $20mil a year in player salaries, money I daresay can be found with ease.

Take a leaf out of Mindaroo's book and make every professional player contracted to one of the 7 teams spend a MINIMUM 8 hours a week doing "community service". And by community service it's really professional development. They're going to be better players & people by being better coaches. I'd mooted precisely what they're doing over in WA at the beginning of this 600+page thread so I'm going to unrealistically take credit for this.

After the first year a player should have his level 1 & 2 coaching certificate. 2nd year they should be a fully qualified coach.

2 afternoons a week running school competitions in non-traditional areas - 1 for training 1 for playing.
1 evening a week coaching a kids club team. Saturday morning watching them play if they're not playing.

Every kid they coach gets a free ticket to every game, just like I did for the bleachers at Ballymore when I was a wee tot playing club rugby.

Poof, we magically have an 18 week competition, 2 or 3 weeks of finals and enough room in the calendar for any variation of Super Rugby as a cup format.

What's best is it's built from the ground up, rather than the top down.

A team of 30 can literally advertise this weeks game to two sets of 15+ kids a piece; every week. Simple math literally means that they're encouraging/getting 900 kids at the game; along with however many paying adults that are dragged along with them.

 

[swingpass]

This week's episode of "Back Roads" on the ABC was set in Robinvale, a small town in north western Victoria.
The sport of choice is AFL, but there are a number of Islanders living there, and the AFL/NRL has funded a female development officer to work with the kids.

the Rebels are also active in Robinvale. A couple of the kids from there, boys and girls if i recall, have played for Vic underage rep sides. From memory they are collected, driven to Melbourne for training camps etc and returned home again - a very long trip. But i suspect in terms of $$$$$ the AFL development officer has more to splash.

 

[Quick Hands]

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Is a domestic comp worth a worse Wallaby team?

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I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[Quick Hands]

Would many kids still play rugby in Australia if there was no domestic professional opportunity and fewer heroes they wanted to emulate?

The big flaw in this is that very few kids watch super rugby (which I assume is what you mean by domestic professional rugby). Th crowds are abysmal and the last time I went, most of the dwindling band were middle aged.

They still follow the Wallabies, but you're overestimating the influence/appeal of super rugby on the young. Even my son's mates (who all play rugby) are more likely to follow NRL or AFL or Shute Shield than they are super rugby.

Even on these threads, many of the match threads struggled to make it to 4 pages, where a couple of years ago they would have run to 20.

 

[hoggy]

The big flaw in this is that very few kids watch super rugby (which I assume is what you mean by domestic professional rugby). Th crowds are abysmal and the last time I went, most of the dwindling band were middle aged.

They still follow the Wallabies, but you're overestimating the influence/appeal of super rugby on the young. Even my son's mates (who all play rugby) are more likely to follow NRL or AFL or Shute Shield than they are super rugby.

Even on these threads, many of the match threads struggled to make it to 4 pages, where a couple of years ago they would have run to 20.

This is a good point, do kids really look up-to the Wallabies, yes they generate the press but to an older market, what is the saying white/male and stale.

I agree, I think the Super rugby simply does not register on peoples radar, super rugby does not generate interest in the game outside of kids that were already in the so called family.

 

[Quick Hands]

This is a good point, do kids really look up-to the Wallabies, yes they generate the press but to an older market, what is the saying white/male and stale.

I agree, I think the Super rugby simply does not register on peoples radar, super rugby does not generate interest in the game outside of kids that were already in the so called family.

I think that Wallabies would still register with the kids (although as you say mostly the died in the wool rugby kids). Don't think that non-Wallaby super players register at all. Most kids around here would have a greater recognition of Marlins or Rats players than non-Wallaby Waratahs. Of the 22 week super season, there's a number of weeks where the team is invisible because of games out of time zone or byes (necessary because of the travel). Most kids just don't have that attention span, and I have to say neither do fewer and fewer adults judging by the home crowds at the SFS.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...d/news-story/e193a8abe56ba0fe118c8442a0286036

Alan's back from holidays in the Australian, not so much going at Castle more the current board, basically saying they should resign, so she can start a fresh.

Don't agree with everything he says, but we need voices like him to speak out, or nothing will ever change.