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Where to for Super Rugby?

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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
And "control" doesn't mean solely in the hands of Rugby Australia and their provincial unions. We're beyond that now. For the pro game to survive we need better funding models including private backing and possibly even fan-led options like the Own the Force model (that was prematurely cut short).


Clearly the best future path for RA is to shift the liability for the bulk of player wages to privately owned professional teams in Australia and be able to contract their best players to the Wallabies (and pay them through match fees) to keep them in Australia (which in turn helps the domestic comp).

This would then allow for better grassroots funding on a more reliable footing because they wouldn't be liable for funding the losses of the professional teams.
 

ForceFan

Peter Fenwicke (45)
This would then allow for better grassroots funding on a more reliable footing because they wouldn't be liable for funding the losses of the professional teams.

If you are saying that a professional competition with purely an Australian focus is unsustainable then I agree with you.

That's why something which builds on Minderoo's WSR initial steps makes sense as it taps into what is a growing Asian support/market.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If you are saying that a professional competition with purely an Australian focus is unsustainable then I agree with you.

That's why something which builds on Minderoo's WSR initial steps makes sense as it taps into what is a growing Asian support/market.


This is certainly going to require owners willing to fund losses for potentially considerable number of years. I don't really see any new competition that isn't going to have that issue. None of them will walk into a huge broadcast deal that will make them profitable from year one.,
 

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
I don't think that whatever we end up with involves NZ and Australia ditching South Africa. It will be a far more mutual outcome because everyone is in the position that things need to change. Super Rugby is struggling everywhere. Our situation is not unique. We're just the most exposed.[/quote] Braveheart


I agree, Super rugby is struggling everywhere. It is just so much more exposed in Australia due to the status of the game here in the sporting landscape.

Surely closed conference with a champions league style end is the only genuine option available. I personally would like to go fully domestic but accept that the finances just aren't available (due to 20 years of neglecting the domestic game), but just a couple of pointers.

  • I cant see SA moving there whole structure to Europe, yes 2-4 teams may work, but 7-8 teams may very well be overkill, and then possibly end up with the some of the same issues as now.
  • How does a champions league work, especially regards the calendar. Take Aus, 8 teams 2 go to the champions league (what do the other 6 do)??
  • The game has to accept that moving forward more private equity is the key.
  • All three Unions have to accept that private money comes with some loosening of control. They can't have it both ways.
  • We have to lessen the presence of Test rugby, we are turning gold into bronze, put simply 15 plus Tests per year is to much (playing the All Blacks 3 times is overkill), I would suggest capping tests if possible at 11/12.
  • You cannot start this comp with strings attached, that is the primary reason why Super rugby is falling into a heap, so many basics of a successful league are sacrificed for vested agendas
  • An acceptance especially in Australia that some financial sacrifices need to occur for a fta presence.
  • A big one for me is the season length, we cant expect the game to grow when domestically the game stops at the peak of winter for Tests.
  • Devoting from July on-wards to just Test rugby especially in Australia does not work, a greater presence is required.
  • Ultimately and my biggest fear, is for this to work. Those in charge must want it to happen, So often those vested interests have ensured that any change is done kicking and screaming. The game in Australia will not survive another compromise.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
How does a champions league work, especially regards the calendar. Take Aus, 8 teams 2 go to the champions league (what do the other 6 do)??
In Europe, it's like this:
  • 3 national/regional comps: Eng (12 teams), Fra (14 teams) and Pro14 (12 teams excl. SA sides)
  • Top half of the teams (approx) go into the Champions Cup (pools and knockout)
  • The others go to the Challenge Cup
  • Saffers not included (for now), they take a few from elsewhere in Europe.
In a potential SANZAAR model you could have something similar, i.e. a "Super Challenge Cup".

Wouldn't be quite as many teams for the SH.

But it means all the Oz pro sides would get a shot at transnational opposition.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
My hope is that RA / NSWRU wouldn't run it. But I don't think you can compare the fortunes of amateur level teams with professional sides. A competitive professional team with PI connections that embraces the community in Western Sydney and plays exciting rugby would have a decent chance of success. It'd be interesting to see how it went.

In an ideal world I reckon it'd be good to have 3 Sydney teams. Western Sydney, Northern Sydney and East/Inner/South Sydney. The latter two include the heartlands of the game and populations over 1 million people each and the west is the frontier with 2+ million. If professional rugby is viable in Canberra (population 400k) it should also be viable in these areas.

I was originally quite sceptical of a PI team. But the idea of a “London Irish” or “London Welsh” style team for PI based in western Sydney quite appeals.

I spent a bit of time in the UK with members from London Welsh whenever WBs visited Cardif. Great bunch, great atmosphere.

The club actively helped up’n’coming expat Welsh in opportunities for training with the Welsh system and getting them locked in with the Welsh dragon.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
  • A big one for me is the season length, we cant expect the game to grow when domestically the game stops at the peak of winter for Tests.
  • Devoting from July on-wards to just Test rugby especially in Australia does not work, a greater presence is required.
  • Ultimately and my biggest fear, is for this to work. Those in charge must want it to happen, So often those vested interests have ensured that any change is done kicking and screaming. The game in Australia will not survive another compromise.

Perhaps it is possible for no one to compromise. The SANZAAR unions could focus on a shorter, more concentrated super rugby that is the ultimate preparation for test rugby. 10ish week competition with 2 Australian teams, 2 or 3 from NZ and South Africa, 1 from Argentina and possibly 1 from Japan.

After this finishes in say early-mid May national squads are selected and some new MLS style competition begins. This could be run independently with plenty of private ownership and the likes of Andrew Forrest heavily involved. It runs until late September or early October. Those in the national squad don't play much if at all in this competition (except when not selected, coming back from injury etc). After Super Rugby they have a period of rest and preparation before the international season starts in July.

Just for an example:

New Super Rugby (9 week round robin, semis and final): Reds, Waratahs, Blues, Hurricanes, Crusaders, Stormers, Sharks, Lions, Jaguares, Sunwolves

New comp (double round robin plus finals starting mid May): Western Force, Brumbies, Rebels, Brisbane, Sydney, Western Sydney, Newcastle, Fiji Drua and a couple of other teams - possibly even a couple of NZ based teams.

It's not that different to the current system but it shortens Super Rugby and makes it unapologetically all about finding the best elite players for test rugby, while transforming the NRC into a competition that is more than just a development tool. But I don't know. Maybe any kind of Super Rugby preceeding it, no matter how short would always overshadow the enhanced NRC style competition. With test rugby going from July onwards, it's hard to develop anything that can run alongside it and still be cared about.
 

Bandar

Bob Loudon (25)
Just for an example:

New Super Rugby (9 week round robin, semis and final): Reds, Waratahs, Blues, Hurricanes, Crusaders, Stormers, Sharks, Lions, Jaguares, Sunwolves

New comp (double round robin plus finals starting mid May): Western Force, Brumbies, Rebels, Brisbane, Sydney, Western Sydney, Newcastle, Fiji Drua and a couple of other teams - possibly even a couple of NZ based teams.

The problem I have with this set up is who to the Rebels, Brumbies & Force supporters go for in the Super Rugby. Then Tahs and Reds supporters have to start following a different team for the rest of the season.

We need to keep it as simple as possible to appeal to as many people as possible. One of the main criticisms of Super Rugby now is the format is too difficult to understand.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
Perhaps it is possible for no one to compromise. The SANZAAR unions could focus on a shorter, more concentrated super rugby that is the ultimate preparation for test rugby. 10ish week competition with 2 Australian teams, 2 or 3 from NZ and South Africa, 1 from Argentina and possibly 1 from Japan.

After this finishes in say early-mid May national squads are selected and some new MLS style competition begins. This could be run independently with plenty of private ownership and the likes of Andrew Forrest heavily involved. It runs until late September or early October. Those in the national squad don't play much if at all in this competition (except when not selected, coming back from injury etc). After Super Rugby they have a period of rest and preparation before the international season starts in July.

Just for an example:

New Super Rugby (9 week round robin, semis and final): Reds, Waratahs, Blues, Hurricanes, Crusaders, Stormers, Sharks, Lions, Jaguares, Sunwolves

New comp (double round robin plus finals starting mid May): Western Force, Brumbies, Rebels, Brisbane, Sydney, Western Sydney, Newcastle, Fiji Drua and a couple of other teams - possibly even a couple of NZ based teams.

It's not that different to the current system but it shortens Super Rugby and makes it unapologetically all about finding the best elite players for test rugby, while transforming the NRC into a competition that is more than just a development tool. But I don't know. Maybe any kind of Super Rugby preceeding it, no matter how short would always overshadow the enhanced NRC style competition. With test rugby going from July onwards, it's hard to develop anything that can run alongside it and still be cared about.

Ormar
Almost there, we need to broaden and look at the platform. If we get the structure right, add some decent management, it will work. It’s not rocket science we simply copy what others do. Most is already in place it’s at the professional level we hhhmmm the kind would say err the cruel would say fuck it up.

My platform,

1. Local district park teams
2. Regional union in charge of a group of park teams
3. Higher level park teams commonly referred to as club rugby i.e Eastwood in Shute Shield
4. State Unions
5. Local National Domestic Competition, preferably independently run from RA with private independent owners. {MLS style business structure]
6. Rebadge Super Rugby into a SANZAAR champions league format with the top say two or three sides in each competition [country] playing in a knock out format.
7. National team selections to be made on a test by test basic.
8. RA to supervise and establish systems for points 1 to 7 to occur.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
The problem I have with this set up is who to the Rebels, Brumbies & Force supporters go for in the Super Rugby. Then Tahs and Reds supporters have to start following a different team for the rest of the season.

We need to keep it as simple as possible to appeal to as many people as possible. One of the main criticisms of Super Rugby now is the format is too difficult to understand.

Neutral fans could always support both Australian teams, or just watch it to see how their own players go, or so they can be informed in discussions about what the Wallabies team for the first test should be etc. I'd think of a short Super Rugby season more like the state of origin in rugby league. It's short enough that those matches are more event like. Could even be just 6 or 8 weeks.

I don't think having 3 teams to support at separate times is too difficult. A rugby league fan thinks of the NRL as the main comp and origin and test matches as representative football. In the same way we could have a main domestic comp that runs throughout most of the season, super rugby is a rep comp that precedes it, and test rugby is the pinnacle, but in this case the test players mostly aren't involved in the core domestic comp. A bit like how Australian test cricketers don't play much if at all in the Big Bash.

I can see the problems though. It's really just an attempt to think out a solution that provides more professional rugby in Australia throughout the season, both before and during the long test season, while also prioritising both high performance and the need for the professional game to have more tribalism and more reach throughout the country.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
5. Local National Domestic Competition, preferably independently run from RA with private independent owners. {MLS style business structure]
6. Rebadge Super Rugby into a SANZAAR champions league format with the top say two or three sides in each competition [country] playing in a knock out format.
7. National team selections to be made on a test by test basis.

So do you still get this really long test season with nothing else (that anyone cares about) going on after June? Or does the national competition go into August/September but the test players aren't involved for the last couple of months of it?

I think both these scenarios are not ideal. That's the challenge of having such a long international season. The only other option is to not have the test players in the primary domestic season at all.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
So do you still get this really long test season with nothing else (that anyone cares about) going on after June? Or does the national competition go into August/September but the test players aren't involved for the last couple of months of it?

I think both these scenarios are not ideal. That's the challenge of having such a long international season. The only other option is to not have the test players in the primary domestic season at all.

Omar

I think you design the best system and then work in the bits. First you need the base of the pyramid and in my point 1 to 4 we built the base of the pyramid that the professional games sits on.

To expand the pyramid or more grow the pyramid you need the lower levels to be greater that the top parts and the bigger the lower levels are the more stable the higher levels are. Accordingly to support the Wallabies you need the best professional base underneath you can get.

As an aside we play roughly 12 senior international Wallaby matches each year we cannot expect that these 12 matches especially when 4 at least are played normally in Europe for these matches to fund rugby’s needs.

So IMO we need a large National Domestic base that can import players from oversea to keep the quality up.

This in weeks is what we need re my post above.

In a 8 team competition
14 weeks for two round of home and away add 4 weeks for a 10 team NDC
3 weeks finals
So 17 weeks to run the competition with say another 4 weeks preseason
SANZAAR Champions league knock out series of 16 team with home and away and the final one game.
16 to 8 teams is 2 weeks
8 to 4 teams is 2 weeks
4 to 2 teams 1 week
The final 1 week
Thus 7 weeks, with no preseason,
International Matches say 12 weeks with say 3 weeks prep.

Thus
Preseason 4 weeks
NDC 17 weeks with 8 teams, 21 weeks with 10 teams.
SANZAAR Champions league [SCL]knock 7 weeks
National team prep 3 weeks
National teams weeks 12.

All up 39 weeks with an 8 team NDC and 43 weeks with a 10 team competition.

What then is needed is clever match scheduling and like in Europe play some SCL matches mid week.

We need IMO to have somewhere in the low to mid 30’s weeks. Obviously competitions break for IRB test scheduled weeks.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Perhaps we all have to admit that there is no easy answer. Even on here noone can agree on a better system than Super rugby, there are a lot that think it is broken, but noone has really come up with an idea of a better format. I know some like what Twiggy is doing, but personally I don't know anyone who has watched them play, and that includes mates who usually follow Fiji or Tonga, who I thought would watch their own teams play. I hope something does come out of it, but whatever someone comes up with has to be a realistic comp, with teams that stand on their own feet financially etc. Otherwise the comp will have no integrity.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Perhaps we all have to admit that there is no easy answer. Even on here noone can agree on a better system than Super rugby, there are a lot that think it is broken, but noone has really come up with an idea of a better format. I know some like what Twiggy is doing, but personally I don't know anyone who has watched them play, and that includes mates who usually follow Fiji or Tonga, who I thought would watch their own teams play. I hope something does come out of it, but whatever someone comes up with has to be a realistic comp, with teams that stand on their own feet financially etc. Otherwise the comp will have no integrity.

Don't agree at all.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Perhaps we all have to admit that there is no easy answer. Even on here noone can agree on a better system than Super rugby, there are a lot that think it is broken, but noone has really come up with an idea of a better format. I know some like what Twiggy is doing, but personally I don't know anyone who has watched them play, and that includes mates who usually follow Fiji or Tonga, who I thought would watch their own teams play. I hope something does come out of it, but whatever someone comes up with has to be a realistic comp, with teams that stand on their own feet financially etc. Otherwise the comp will have no integrity.
I have more confidence in RA collaborating with twiggy’s team and access to twiggy’s money for them to design a competition that would better suit oz rugby interests and more fan appeal than super rugby does for sure. I just want them working inside the tent rather than separate outside the tent and planning a competition that allows for equalisation of talent across teams and uncertainty of outcome. Hence why twiggy was seeking wallaby eligibility for oz players playing for any wsr team and marquee player allocations. Sorry much more faith in RA working with twiggy then sanzaar to get a much better outcome for oz rugby.


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Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
I have more confidence in RA collaborating with twiggy’s team and access to twiggy’s money for them to design a competition that would better suit oz rugby interests and more fan appeal than super rugby does for sure. I just want them working inside the tent rather than separate outside the tent and planning a competition that allows for equalisation of talent across teams and uncertainty of outcome. Hence why twiggy was seeking wallaby eligibility for oz players playing for any wsr team and marquee player allocations. Sorry much more faith in RA working with twiggy then sanzaar to get a much better outcome for oz rugby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Article on SAMU affair and nz request for payment summed up well in final sentence.

“Castle now knows what she’s dealing with at the SANZAAR table and we all know a bit more of what lies beneath the amiable veneer of New Zealand rugby: cold hard self interest. Perhaps Australia could learn a thing or two”

Sadly I don’t think RA has learnt at all and still putting too much focus on SANZAAR rather than working with a rich billionaire called twiggy who has more aligned interests in making for better oz rugby position. Time for RA to grow up and smell the roses before they bury rugby in this country under the pile of growing disinterest and discontent with super rugby. Get to the darn table with twiggy and his team and don’t leave the bloody table till you work out together the future is collaborating with twiggy’s Asia pacific vision and not our SANZAAR partners. For once put oz interests first RA and not the interests of NZ and SA.


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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
It's behind the paywall, so I've taken the liberty of posting the whole article.

Each week, the debate continues, with the focus on Super Rugby and the continuing failure of Australian teams to make any impact of note on the competition.
I will have something to say about the whole Super Rugby concept at a later date, but to put it in the most succinct way, and from a purely selfish Australian Rugby point of view, the Super Rugby competition has to go.
The manifestations of the kind of problems I’ve been articulating are everywhere and the Super Rugby competition won’t assist in resolving any of them.
On the contrary, without urgent changes, the problems and the results will get worse.
You have only to take the once-powerful Gordon Rugby Club in the Sydney Shute Shield competition.
After eight rounds, they have lost seven of their games. They have had 443 points scored against them, an average of just over 55 points a game. Last week, they lost 97-14 to Northern Suburbs.
Their only win was against Penrith, who’ve since been dumped from the Shute Shield for bad performances.
Gordon’s lower grades have been similarly dismantled. And they were flogged by huge margins in 2017.
This is a famous club, which has been a powerhouse of Australian rugby since 1936.
They have won eight first grade premierships, 12 club championships.
They have produced 34 Wallabies, including four captains — Trevor Allan, Bob Davidson, Peter Sullivan and Stirling Mortlock.
And they have produced other great Australian rugby names — Jim Phipps, Arthur Summons, Rod Batterham, Laurie Monaghan, Steve Cutler, Andrew Blades, Tony Dempsey.
Rugby Australia hasn’t a clue about these issues, nor does it offer any solutions.
Just keep drifting along.
But where are future NSW and Wallaby teams going to come from if clubs such as Gordon are fighting for their very future?
Or is the answer to send them into the same rugby oblivion that has been dished out to Penrith?
I had a note from a regional headmaster in relation to a recent Sydney club game between Easts and Parramatta. They played at Orange.
He writes: “The crowd was incredibly disappointing. No one knew it was on. Solution for a huge crowd? Give a free family ticket and post it to every school kid in Orange and include a sausage sandwich and a free can of drink. They bring mum and dad. Mum and dad will pay for theirs. It would barely be a $500 exercise. It’s not rocket science. It would only need Castle and co. to donate 1 per cent of their wage to pay the bill. I keep the faith, but I fear rugby union in Oz is getting close to terminal illness time.”
Another reader writes: “I was at the Brumbies v Rebels game on Saturday night and, dear God, what a world of hurt Australian rugby is in. There was no atmosphere. I mean none. The game was on the line and, honestly, nobody cared.
“The issue isn’t isolated to Brumbies games. It starts at the top and filters down. Having said that, it did seem that the Brumbies organisation had lost interest … I was so disappointed and saddened at what I saw on Saturday night as I remember packing out the mall at Canberra to watch them on the big screen not that long ago. How far from that we now seem.”
And, of course, on the eve of that match, rugby administrators in Canberra were warning the rugby public if they don’t turn up, the club might go under.
Oatley Rugby Club is a little outfit in Sydney, but, writes a lawyer and donor to the club: “The club, like many rugby clubs, is devoid of sources of funding and is facing the reality of years of inept administration of the code by Australian Rugby and NSW Rugby.”
He writes: “I, like many lovers of rugby, am disillusioned by the approach of the administrators of the code in Australia. They are continuing to alienate the true supporters of the code and unless something is done to change this, rugby in Australia will continue to be weakened. It’s not a question of lack of support, as there is a great deal of support for club rugby and subdistrict rugby if the code is properly administered. But that requires proper recognition of the fundamental importance of such clubs and also the need to ensure they are properly funded.
“The failure of the Penrith Rugby Club is just one stark illustration of the real problems facing the code of rugby. One of the most important points made by Alan Jones is the huge increase in the bureaucracy of the administration of the code. It must be kept in mind that these bureaucrats are paid enormous sums of money. The costs involved are such that running a club such as Oatley is not properly addressed with the resultant negative impact upon such clubs.”
All this is easily addressed, by simply ousting the failed Board of Australian Rugby. Put people there who know, listen and want to address these grassroots issues. From the grassroots grows the harvest.
Rugby is owned by its members. The board is elected by its members. What has been done by members can only be undone by them.
If the two big member unions, NSW and Queensland, wanted to, they could convene an extraordinary general meeting, the purpose of which would be to move a vote of no confidence in the Board of Rugby Australia. Then install a new board. Not hard.
But it’s quite clear there is no one within these two powerful member unions with the fire in the belly or the courage or the political nous to marshal the forces. They’re cosy and compliant.
They sat on their hands and allowed the Western Force to be executed. Why? Self-interest.
They thought they’d be the beneficiaries of the demise of the Force — that’s what Rugby Australia told them. More money, more players.
But as one of my correspondents said: “Guess what, no money, no players …”
A revolution is needed, but the members have to bring it on.
By the way, New Zealand did just that in 2002. The incumbent New Zealand Rugby Board lost the co-hosting rights for the Rugby World Cup 2003 to Australia.
They absolutely stuffed up and tried to brush it under the rug. The member unions in New Zealand convened an extraordinary general meeting and sacked the lot.
There are many people in Australia who would make terrific directors.
There are capable and knowledgeable rugby people who have been there, done it and are ready to do it again.
As one young person wrote to me, a young fellow who loves his rugby: “If Donald Trump was an Australian rugby fan, he’d probably be pretty angry. He’d rightfully point out that we don’t win anymore, that we send in weak negotiators. But most importantly, he’d point out that New Zealand and South Africa are ‘nasty guys’ and we should not be nice to them.”
Pretending that SANZAAR has any relevance to Australian Rugby at the moment, given the mess we’re in, and that Super Rugby can continue in its present form, is the ultimate proof that we have weak negotiators and have lost the plot.
Now, in a week’s time, we face Ireland. The “scoreboard” indicates the difficult prospect in front of us, though not impossible. We do have talent.
But the backdrop against which Michael Cheika has to deliver is, at best, unpalatable.
In 2013, Ireland published an outstanding document entitled A Strategic Plan for Irish Rugby.
It was labelled: “Irish Rugby — from grassroots to international success — One Ireland, One Passion, One Goal.”
The report determined that Ireland would:
• Win a Six Nations Championship once every four years — and they won this year’s title, undefeated
• Win the European Championship (the Heineken Cup) by 2018 — they did that this season with Leinster
• Win the Pro 14 European Competition every two years — they did with Connacht in 2015/16 and Leinster this season
• Increase the number of rugby participants to 180,000 by September 2017
• Spend 109 million euros a year on grassroots and provincial rugby
• And that rugby should be based on respect, integrity, inclusivity, fun and excellence
Ireland are now the No 2 side in the world and they copied, of course, what New Zealand’s summit did, as I have written previously, after New Zealand were knocked out in the quarterfinals of the World Cup in 2007.
So the simple, positive point is success need not be elusive. If Ireland, with a small playing population, can do it, so can we with our abundance of playing talent.
Only one thing stands in the way. And increasingly, I think, everyone knows what that is.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
I have more confidence in RA collaborating with twiggy’s team and access to twiggy’s money for them to design a competition that would better suit oz rugby interests and more fan appeal than super rugby does for sure. I just want them working inside the tent rather than separate outside the tent and planning a competition that allows for equalisation of talent across teams and uncertainty of outcome. Hence why twiggy was seeking wallaby eligibility for oz players playing for any wsr team and marquee player allocations. Sorry much more faith in RA working with twiggy then sanzaar to get a much better outcome for oz rugby.


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I see your point about a comp that the outcome is uncertain etc, but having a weaker comp just so Aus teams can win isn't really a comp with integrity is it? I hope something is worked with Twiggy, but as we haven't seen any details of the comp he is running next year, let's not assume it is going to be great either, it maybe a weaker comp but we don't know if it will be better!
 

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
It's behind the paywall, so I've taken the liberty of posting the whole article.

Only one thing stands in the way. And increasingly, I think, everyone knows what that is.


Without posting the whole article again in reply, whether you agree with every thing he says, and i think he is way of on some matters.

But I love how Jones is putting the heat on the RA, they just are so desperate to sweep this all under the carpet and sign on for more Super rugby with a few changes and a nice new mission statement.

The fact is change is never gonna happen here to rugby under the current structure, so i say good on Jones, it really is the only way.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Without posting the whole article again in reply, whether you agree with every thing he says, and i think he is way of on some matters.

But I love how Jones is putting the heat on the RA, they just are so desperate to sweep this all under the carpet and sign on for more Super rugby with a few changes and a nice new mission statement.

The fact is change is never gonna happen here to rugby under the current structure, so i say good on Jones, it really is the only way.

Too many people in Australia have a vested interest in the status quo. Even if the status quo is demonstrably in terminal decline. Nothing can apparently be done to reverse or even halt this decline we're consistently told. Nothing which other rugby playing countries have implented could work in Australia we're constantly told - rugby in Australia is uniquely unique. Nothing which applies to other sports in Australia could possibly be implemented in rugby is another oft repeated refrain - there's that unique uniqueness again.

As an example - the frequently trotted out excuse is that no one else has AFL, NRL and soccer, we're not the most popular sport and not even the most popular contact sport so we can't possibly succeed.

But yet, as I've posted previously, rugby is way behind soccer, gaelic football and hurling in terms of participation in Ireland. In fact rugby in Ireland would be very similar to rugby in Australia in per capita terms. And yet we've seen the Irish RFU completely clean out and reorganise their management and the game is now booming. Note the section on Irish rugby in the article. This in an economy much smaller than Australia, with a small rugby playing population like Australia.

All around the world rugby is booming and expanding - but in Australia it's in terminal decline. Clubs, schools, subbies - wherever you look it's the same story.

I get so angry and emotional about I'm posting less and less and watching far fewer games of rugby than I ever have. I watch my son's school game, sometimes the firsts at school or the 16As or both, I watch the Marlins or the SS match of the round and that's about it. Haven't watch a full super game all year and haven't even watched part of a game for a few weeks. Have no idea who's on top and who isn't, but I gather from the papers that the Aussie teams aren't going so well. I'll probably go to Australia v Ireland, but I'm struggling to get much motivation to do so (and I'm and SFS member, so I get in for free).
 
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