Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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jimmydubs
Dave Cowper (27)
For the challenge.
Seriously the sort of person we need would look at the shit mess and immediately start having ideas and get excited about what they could achieve because the starting point is so fucked.
They had about 250 applicants.
Don't let an appointment of robbo or kearns fool you into thinking they didbt have good options. They just won't choose them because they fear change and being shown up for being useless twats.
D
daz
Guest
I think that was meant for me, cyclo. Just demonstrating that time can move fast or slow, depending on the repetitiveness of unfathomable posts. In this case, very fast indeed.
Forceright
Allen Oxlade (6)
Rugby Australia email leak calls Western Force decision into question
Nick Taylor, PerthNow
November 26, 2017 10:41AM
RUGBY Australia was brokering a deal to save the Melbourne Rebels two months before the decision to axe Western Force from Super Rugby was announced.
A confidential email from chief executive Bill Pulver shows he was discussing the deal to transfer the Rebels licence from businessman Andrew Cox to the Victorian Rugby Union in June this year.
Pulver denied any involvement in the subsequent transfer of the Rebels licence.
“I was not involved in any way with the transfer of licence back to VRU. I was taken by surprise when it happened. I am not sure what email you are referring to,” he said.
The email, leaked to Seven West Media, was sent from Pulver to Cox and other RA management. Among key terms was that (foundation Rebels directors) Lyndsey Cattermole and Bob Dalziel would repay creditors to ensure the club was “debt-free”.
That allowed the “put option”, used to transfer the licence from Cox’s Imperium Group to the VRU on August 4 when they bought 11,625,000 shares for $1.
RA claimed it was blindsided when news of the sale leaked and said it had to approve any transfer or sale of ownership.
Pulver stated in the June 28 email that another term of the deal was that: “Imperium exercises the put option to the VRU such that the VRU becomes the sole shareholder of the Rebels.”
He told the senate inquiry into the future of rugby in September: “In fact, at the 12th hour minor shareholders within the Melbourne Rebels came forward with incremental capital to prop up the enterprise, which removed it from the prospect of insolvency.
“Those two (Force and Rebels) were both live right up until the final decision.”
Western Force members and supporters were devastated by the decision.
Western Force members and supporters were devastated by the decision.Picture: Nic Ellis
RA chairman Cameron Clyne told the inquiry last month: “I have said there was a very real option that both teams were being considered right through until August.”
The email relates to a finding from the inquiry: “Confidential evidence shows the ARU were directly involved in the execution of the transfer of the Melbourne Rebels’ licence from Imperium to VRU.
“The committee understands these negotiations were well under way by June 2017.”
The committee also said it had: “... been made aware that the ARU suggested Imperium exercise a put option and were involved in negotiations which cleared Melbourne Rebels debt thereby allowing the put option to the Victorian Rugby Union to be exercised.
“These events took place in June 2017 and effectively made it impossible to end their licence.”
Nick Taylor, PerthNow
November 26, 2017 10:41AM
RUGBY Australia was brokering a deal to save the Melbourne Rebels two months before the decision to axe Western Force from Super Rugby was announced.
A confidential email from chief executive Bill Pulver shows he was discussing the deal to transfer the Rebels licence from businessman Andrew Cox to the Victorian Rugby Union in June this year.
Pulver denied any involvement in the subsequent transfer of the Rebels licence.
“I was not involved in any way with the transfer of licence back to VRU. I was taken by surprise when it happened. I am not sure what email you are referring to,” he said.
The email, leaked to Seven West Media, was sent from Pulver to Cox and other RA management. Among key terms was that (foundation Rebels directors) Lyndsey Cattermole and Bob Dalziel would repay creditors to ensure the club was “debt-free”.
That allowed the “put option”, used to transfer the licence from Cox’s Imperium Group to the VRU on August 4 when they bought 11,625,000 shares for $1.
RA claimed it was blindsided when news of the sale leaked and said it had to approve any transfer or sale of ownership.
Pulver stated in the June 28 email that another term of the deal was that: “Imperium exercises the put option to the VRU such that the VRU becomes the sole shareholder of the Rebels.”
He told the senate inquiry into the future of rugby in September: “In fact, at the 12th hour minor shareholders within the Melbourne Rebels came forward with incremental capital to prop up the enterprise, which removed it from the prospect of insolvency.
“Those two (Force and Rebels) were both live right up until the final decision.”
Western Force members and supporters were devastated by the decision.
Western Force members and supporters were devastated by the decision.Picture: Nic Ellis
RA chairman Cameron Clyne told the inquiry last month: “I have said there was a very real option that both teams were being considered right through until August.”
The email relates to a finding from the inquiry: “Confidential evidence shows the ARU were directly involved in the execution of the transfer of the Melbourne Rebels’ licence from Imperium to VRU.
“The committee understands these negotiations were well under way by June 2017.”
The committee also said it had: “... been made aware that the ARU suggested Imperium exercise a put option and were involved in negotiations which cleared Melbourne Rebels debt thereby allowing the put option to the Victorian Rugby Union to be exercised.
“These events took place in June 2017 and effectively made it impossible to end their licence.”
Mate, it was in at least 1 other. Most of the ones I saw, it was sort of relevant.
andrewM
Herbert Moran (7)
Well..So what could happen as a result of this email?
Surely at the very least I would expect Bill to stand down immediately.
If it can be shown that he was acting on the direction of the board, I would not think it unreasonable for the board to resign.
I also would not think it unreasonable for the EARU to immediately terminate their costs claim against the RugbyWA.
And to finish off, maybe the EARU better start agreeing to Twiggy's request that IPRC players be eligible for Wallabies selection. I wonder if this email would be enough ammunition for RugbyWA to claim damages of some sort against the EARU?
Surely at the very least I would expect Bill to stand down immediately.
If it can be shown that he was acting on the direction of the board, I would not think it unreasonable for the board to resign.
I also would not think it unreasonable for the EARU to immediately terminate their costs claim against the RugbyWA.
And to finish off, maybe the EARU better start agreeing to Twiggy's request that IPRC players be eligible for Wallabies selection. I wonder if this email would be enough ammunition for RugbyWA to claim damages of some sort against the EARU?
stoff
Trevor Allan (34)
I wouldn’t think it changes much at all. Bill will go shortly. Removing him now just makes the transition more difficult. It has no relevance to the costs issue as it has no relevance to the court case. I can’t see any avenue for RugbyWA to claim damages as the ARU exercised a right it already had under the Alliance Agreement.
FWIW I think the ARU has an early go at getting rid of the Rebels via negotiation or other means, and at some point a hefty legal threat came from the Rebels at which point the ARU had to help them through.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
andrewM
Herbert Moran (7)
I wasn't actually thinking of the arbitration/court case, but rather on fresh grounds, bit moot though given RugbyWA is a bit skint at the moment. It may be enough however to get the EARU to drop pursuing costs
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Just found an article from 2015 from the conversation.
It talks mostly about the AFL and its current model and a little bit about soccer which gets heaps of praise.
The article is quite critical of the AFL business model if viewed over the long term and praised the bottom up approach of soccer. Essentially saying the AFL has forgot about its base and is overly concerned with money. That the AFL talks of brands and markets, not styles of play and communities.
Sound familiar.
Its a very long and detailed article and centred in Tassie.
However when reading it what screamed off the page the model being torn apart is very similar to Super Rugby in Australia, and are the Rebels similar to GWS and the Suns.
If you have 15 minutes or so its a good read and IMO shines a light on Super Rugby issues as well.
Enjoy if interested in this kinda of stuff.
https://theconversation.com/back-to-the-future-has-the-afl-lost-its-community-62100
It talks mostly about the AFL and its current model and a little bit about soccer which gets heaps of praise.
The article is quite critical of the AFL business model if viewed over the long term and praised the bottom up approach of soccer. Essentially saying the AFL has forgot about its base and is overly concerned with money. That the AFL talks of brands and markets, not styles of play and communities.
Sound familiar.
Its a very long and detailed article and centred in Tassie.
However when reading it what screamed off the page the model being torn apart is very similar to Super Rugby in Australia, and are the Rebels similar to GWS and the Suns.
If you have 15 minutes or so its a good read and IMO shines a light on Super Rugby issues as well.
Enjoy if interested in this kinda of stuff.
https://theconversation.com/back-to-the-future-has-the-afl-lost-its-community-62100
T
TOCC
Guest
Currie Cup is been shortened in 2018 to only match match against each team, meaning only 3 or 4 home games a season.
Incredible that the SARU treat the Currie cup with such disregard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Incredible that the SARU treat the Currie cup with such disregard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
half
Dick Tooth (41)
That's insane at so many levels. Not the least with the gov threat hanging over their heads on the number of black players, how are they going to prepare competitive teams in the future with so little development at say Div 2.
James Pettifer
Jim Clark (26)
Also interesting to see the Pro 14 crowds for the SA home games seemed to have stabilised at about 3500. I suspect that they were looking for higher numbers than that ...
Clarence
Stan Wickham (3)
I'm 100% behind a national competition, but don't mix the tiers. Either states or city/regions. Having NSW Waratahs and then several other teams based in NSW doesn't make any sense. I just want to see one or the other. I am aware of Melbourne Rebels....
dru
David Wilson (68)
Varsity would be unchanged I think, but does this also scuttle u21?
Impacts the pathway not just for players, but coaches too. First really stupid move from SARU for a while.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Some thoughts on Rugby next season from ESPN.
Looks at union, league, soccer and AFL. I have copied the Union bit below and it seems to think the Super hhhmmm well you decide.
http://www.espn.com.au/espn/story/_...redictions-australia-four-football-codes-2018
Footy foresight: Predictions for Australia's football codes in 2018
Rugby
What will change from 2017? Super Rugby will begin to make sense again. After two years of cross-conference confusion, a warped finals ranking system and scoreboard blowouts, the 2018 15-team version will slowly start to win back the fans. The home-and-away local derbies are back, which is great news for everyone - except those players involved in the five Kiwi franchises - while four consolidated Australian teams should be more competitive against international opposition. Spare a thought for those Western Force fans, though, who have every right to feel aggrieved by an expansion move SANZAAR got horribly wrong.
What will remain constant? The Bledisloe Cup eluding Australia. With Game III likely to be played in Japan, 2018 would seemingly offer the Wallabies a chance at reclaiming the oversized piece of silverware. But such have been Australia's pathetic performances in their last two Bledisloe openers in Sydney, and the fact that almost certain defeat awaits at their Eden Park graveyard a week later, that Wallabies fans may as well look to 2019, or even 2020.
What will define the season? In what will the final inbound June series, Australia's three-Test showdown with Ireland takes on extra significance just over a year out from the World Cup. The Irish are a team on the rise, themselves the owners of a victory over the All Blacks in 2016, with a squad boasting a nice mix of experience and rising talent. They are also very well coached by Joe Schmidt. After a disjointed June series this season, and then back-to-back losses to finish 2017, the Wallabies must hit the ground running. Lose the series to Ireland and coach Michael Cheika can expect to come under increased pressure.
Who will be the John Eales medallist? With Israel Folau missing the start of the voting period in November, and Michael Hooper earning a couple of yellow cards through the same timeframe, Will Genia looks to be in a good position to win his first John Eales Medal. The Wallabies scrum-half got better with each game in the Rugby Championship to re-establish himself in the conversation about the world's premier No. 9. If the Wallabies are to beat Ireland, have any semblance of Bledisloe hope and be in the Rugby Championship running, Genia will need to be at his very best.
Who is in the firing line? Daryl Gibson. After two poor seasons at the helm of the Waratahs, Gibson is tip-toeing down the touchline knowing unemployment could be just a few defeats away. The Kiwi was a key part of Michael Cheika's overhaul of the once-soft franchise, but has so far failed to stamp his mark as a head coach. Fortunately, he should have a full squad to work with from the outset that includes a refreshed Folau. The Wallabies superstar, skipper Michael Hooper and fly-half Bernard Foley are the key cogs at both provincial and Test level; Gibson will be hoping the hunger is there to perform in blue as it is gold.
Who will be the biggest riser and slider of the year? Having picked up the lion's share of the now-defunct Western Force's talent, and Wallabies halfback Will Genia, Melbourne Rebels are well placed to climb up the Super Rugby ladder. But after finishing 2017 in last place, they've only got one way to go, right? The highly-rated Dave Wessels has taken the reins at the Rebels having led the Force to second in the Aussie conference in 2017, impressing in his approach and the fashion in which he conducted himself. Meanwhile, it's certainly going to be a changing of the guard at the Chiefs with coach Dave Rennie and the likes of Aaron Cruden, Stephen Donald, Tawera Kerr-Barlow and James Lowe having all departed for Europe. The pressure will be on coach Colin Cooper, while All Blacks fullback Damian McKenzie could be set for a move to fly-half. Will he have the same devastating impact with less space on offer in the front line? Possibly not.
Who will win the premiership? Did someone mention the word dynasty? It's a noun the Crusaders know well, having dominated Super Rugby around the turn of the millennium, and then again midway through the noughties. And after what they did in 2017, it would be a brave person to suggest they can't go back-to-back under Scott Robertson. "Razor" as he's known, certainly appears to have a touch of magic about him and was able to connect on a personal level the more serious Todd Blackadder could not. They look the team to beat again in 2018, though the loss of Kieran Read for three months to injury is a setback.
What will be the headline of the year? Eddie's England take down ABs at first attempt
Looks at union, league, soccer and AFL. I have copied the Union bit below and it seems to think the Super hhhmmm well you decide.
http://www.espn.com.au/espn/story/_...redictions-australia-four-football-codes-2018
Footy foresight: Predictions for Australia's football codes in 2018
Rugby
What will change from 2017? Super Rugby will begin to make sense again. After two years of cross-conference confusion, a warped finals ranking system and scoreboard blowouts, the 2018 15-team version will slowly start to win back the fans. The home-and-away local derbies are back, which is great news for everyone - except those players involved in the five Kiwi franchises - while four consolidated Australian teams should be more competitive against international opposition. Spare a thought for those Western Force fans, though, who have every right to feel aggrieved by an expansion move SANZAAR got horribly wrong.
What will remain constant? The Bledisloe Cup eluding Australia. With Game III likely to be played in Japan, 2018 would seemingly offer the Wallabies a chance at reclaiming the oversized piece of silverware. But such have been Australia's pathetic performances in their last two Bledisloe openers in Sydney, and the fact that almost certain defeat awaits at their Eden Park graveyard a week later, that Wallabies fans may as well look to 2019, or even 2020.
What will define the season? In what will the final inbound June series, Australia's three-Test showdown with Ireland takes on extra significance just over a year out from the World Cup. The Irish are a team on the rise, themselves the owners of a victory over the All Blacks in 2016, with a squad boasting a nice mix of experience and rising talent. They are also very well coached by Joe Schmidt. After a disjointed June series this season, and then back-to-back losses to finish 2017, the Wallabies must hit the ground running. Lose the series to Ireland and coach Michael Cheika can expect to come under increased pressure.
Who will be the John Eales medallist? With Israel Folau missing the start of the voting period in November, and Michael Hooper earning a couple of yellow cards through the same timeframe, Will Genia looks to be in a good position to win his first John Eales Medal. The Wallabies scrum-half got better with each game in the Rugby Championship to re-establish himself in the conversation about the world's premier No. 9. If the Wallabies are to beat Ireland, have any semblance of Bledisloe hope and be in the Rugby Championship running, Genia will need to be at his very best.
Who is in the firing line? Daryl Gibson. After two poor seasons at the helm of the Waratahs, Gibson is tip-toeing down the touchline knowing unemployment could be just a few defeats away. The Kiwi was a key part of Michael Cheika's overhaul of the once-soft franchise, but has so far failed to stamp his mark as a head coach. Fortunately, he should have a full squad to work with from the outset that includes a refreshed Folau. The Wallabies superstar, skipper Michael Hooper and fly-half Bernard Foley are the key cogs at both provincial and Test level; Gibson will be hoping the hunger is there to perform in blue as it is gold.
Who will be the biggest riser and slider of the year? Having picked up the lion's share of the now-defunct Western Force's talent, and Wallabies halfback Will Genia, Melbourne Rebels are well placed to climb up the Super Rugby ladder. But after finishing 2017 in last place, they've only got one way to go, right? The highly-rated Dave Wessels has taken the reins at the Rebels having led the Force to second in the Aussie conference in 2017, impressing in his approach and the fashion in which he conducted himself. Meanwhile, it's certainly going to be a changing of the guard at the Chiefs with coach Dave Rennie and the likes of Aaron Cruden, Stephen Donald, Tawera Kerr-Barlow and James Lowe having all departed for Europe. The pressure will be on coach Colin Cooper, while All Blacks fullback Damian McKenzie could be set for a move to fly-half. Will he have the same devastating impact with less space on offer in the front line? Possibly not.
Who will win the premiership? Did someone mention the word dynasty? It's a noun the Crusaders know well, having dominated Super Rugby around the turn of the millennium, and then again midway through the noughties. And after what they did in 2017, it would be a brave person to suggest they can't go back-to-back under Scott Robertson. "Razor" as he's known, certainly appears to have a touch of magic about him and was able to connect on a personal level the more serious Todd Blackadder could not. They look the team to beat again in 2018, though the loss of Kieran Read for three months to injury is a setback.
What will be the headline of the year? Eddie's England take down ABs at first attempt
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Quick
Just before I post, you get my vote for thread of the Year.
Back on topic.
Mate sent me this from the EPL its from a guy I am not sure from what club or his position. But he writes what he believes are """The Top Ten Hints to Get Crowds""" by heck it made sense to me and sat very easily with me.
This should be sent to all the Super Rugby clubs and the Great Pod of Beached and Bloated Whales in charge of Super Rugby.
Hope others enjoy IMO very clever and quite astute.
http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/ten-ways-to-increase-attendances-in-2018/
Just before I post, you get my vote for thread of the Year.
Back on topic.
Mate sent me this from the EPL its from a guy I am not sure from what club or his position. But he writes what he believes are """The Top Ten Hints to Get Crowds""" by heck it made sense to me and sat very easily with me.
This should be sent to all the Super Rugby clubs and the Great Pod of Beached and Bloated Whales in charge of Super Rugby.
Hope others enjoy IMO very clever and quite astute.
http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/ten-ways-to-increase-attendances-in-2018/
dru
David Wilson (68)
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