Where to for Super Rugby?

[Twoilms]

I wish they would make a fucking announcement already. This shit is a fucking disgrace. Instead of talking about a weekend of rugby coming up we are discussing whether the game is going to exist in a few years time. Even if they somehow turn this around this period has still been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[RedsHappy]

Big difference between Netball and Rugby in this country. Netball in Aus has been dominant on the world stage (the ABs of netball if you like) for many years, and has therefore been diluted by the introduction of the NZ sides. Rugby is the direct opposite. Aus rugby has not been so commercially successful that it can go it alone. Any move to do so would leave us in a more precarious position financially as tv deals go through the floor.

Chalk and cheese.

No one is suggesting netball here is some kind of perfectly guiding analogue for rugby here.

The sole point made was/is that Netball Australia appear to be well-run, appears to be adopting a sound and creative overall code development model that (a) attracts FTA and Pay TV (b) positively engages fans and (c) is increasing both fan attendance and TV viewership.

It can be done.

 

[RedsHappy]

I wish they would make a fucking announcement already. This shit is a fucking disgrace. Instead of talking about a weekend of rugby coming up we are discussing whether the game is going to exist in a few years time. Even if they somehow turn this around this period has still been an unmitigated disaster.

........and SANZAAR has been working on this 'review' since August 2016.

It would be the stuff of a new comedic sit-com (a Monty Python or Yes, Minister of rugby perhaps?) if the obvious institutional incompetence and poor judgement arising from it all was not so serious.

 

[wamberal]

Not sure that you understand the realities of this sort of grouping. Each participating country has its own axe to grind. There is no dictatorship, just a messy free-for-all, with a huge number of variables, and a lot of different priorities and opinions. Just the political issues in South Africa alone are a huge problem to surmount.


Institutional incompetence? There is no institution, just a freeform grouping of parties with wildly different opinions.


Poor judgement? Maybe you have a crystal ball to tell you what the future holds. Most of us don't. So our judgements can usually be criticised, with the benefit of hindsight.


The real world that our sport inhabits is not amenable to easy, simple, logical solutions. That's because there are none. There is just the least unpalatable solution , that is what they are searching for.

 

[RedsHappy]

Not sure that you understand the realities of this sort of grouping. Each participating country has its own axe to grind. There is no dictatorship, just a messy free-for-all, with a huge number of variables, and a lot of different priorities and opinions. Just the political issues in South Africa alone are a huge problem to surmount.


Institutional incompetence? There is no institution, just a freeform grouping of parties with wildly different opinions.


Poor judgement? Maybe you have a crystal ball to tell you what the future holds. Most of us don't. So our judgements can usually be criticised, with the benefit of hindsight.


The real world that our sport inhabits is not amenable to easy, simple, logical solutions. That's because there are none. There is just the least unpalatable solution , that is what they are searching for.

Wamberal - I respect as always your opinion but I do not and will not share your palpably low expectations and inferred acceptance of low standards of leadership and management quality in well-paid executive positions directly or indirectly funded by we rugby fans.

As other posters have commented here, to allow a situation to arise where, mid-competition FFS, there is open and uncontrolled speculation - fuelled directly by SANZAAR's notorious and shameless opacity - regarding the complete, near-term terminations of some Super playing terms in a manner which will clearly undermine the motivation and confidence and security of all personnel within them and thus likely too the quality of their play (and thus btw undermining the Super competition itself) is all of:

- grossly irresponsible at simply human and many other levels
- reeks of arrogance and crass insensitivity in a manner clearly corrosive to SANZAAR's reputation and perception by fans
- likely to damage especially Australian rugby from a media and fan perspective (witness the pervasively mocking media coverage of SANZAAR's recent conduct)

and for these and numerous other obvious reasons is the very objective definition of:

- institutional incompetence of the highest order

 

[wamberal]

I think you miss the point. There is no institution, just a bunch of self-interested countries.

Look at the NRL. They have a Commission. They have similar outbreaks of dissent and disagreement. Even though, in theory at least, all parties have huge areas of common agreement.


Get it off your chest, but understand that in the real world, people tend to act in accordance with their own interests or the interests of the organisation they represent. On top of all that, the host broadcasters and in particular the South African political realities are huge factors that nobody can control.


Dissenting views and leaks even happen from dictatorships. And SANZAAR is the opposite of a dictatorship. It is virtual anarchy. Like it or not, it is where we are.

 

[Slim 293]

Jim Tucker up in Queensland has lost his shit at the thought of the Brumbies being cut..........

IT is ludicrous that the ACT Brumbies have been dragged into the numbing chatter about Super Rugby’s chop-and-change for a better future.

If the Brumbies’ place at the table is in question, the whole Super Rugby competition should be shut down.

.........

The idea of the Brumbies merging with the Melbourne Rebels is an absurdity but such are the shadows that the gullible are jumping at during this nervous time in Australian rugby.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...s/news-story/bd8eb640487fafc02bf07a589ce93170

 

[Jamie]

Does anybody else get the feeling that all the Journos, ex players, etc that have been quietly campaigning for the whole thing to implode are now starting to "Bubble to the surface"?

Seems like every one of these types is hoping that we either go back to 3 teams AND put funds into Club Rugby OR go at it alone. Yes the comp needs fixing and yes there has been some poor leadership across the board but why are "Rugby" people kicking down the code in the media every chance that they get?!

I personally love the international feel and without playing SA and NZ regularly we will be much worse than where we are now

 

[Moono75]

One thing we do know is the management and administration of Rugby Union is about as agile as hamstrung hippo with gout in identifying and adapting to change and new opportunities.

The name of the competition is a misnomer, the branding and promotion weak, the quality of the product degraded.

We still get some cracking games but they are more dispersed through the rounds than ever. If the ARU doesn't have the best interests of Australian rugby at the heart of it's negotiations it should be a grown up and say "this ain't working for us...bye bye".

Personally I would have no qualms with a stripped back 10 team OZ and NZ competition with SA, the Argies and Japan doing their own thing.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

A few points in response to this.

First, broadcasting revenue only makes up something like 25% of the ARU's revenue, and a lot of that is for test rugby, which wouldn't change. Second, we have no idea what broadcast revenues a proper length, well-scheduled, Australian market focused professional competition would generate, especially in the longer term. Third, even if it's a fair bit less than Australia's cut of Super Rugby broadcast revenue, the costs of such a competition would be substantially lower.

Everyone's so hung up on the revenue side of things, but look at the costs, the ARU are spending so much every year to prop up a failing competition, on corporate expenses and on central contracts in what is a futile effort to keep our top players in Australia. The reality is that the salaries in Europe are growing faster than the salaries here. The only way this might change is if rugby were to become a hell of a lot more popular in Australia, and perhaps Asia. Neither will happen by sticking with the status quo. And if it never happens it may be better to at least have a competition that the rugby community across this country, in all major regions, can engage with and support week to week. Whether that be as big as the NRL or the NBL.

Yes if means an nbl I can live with,but just give me an nrc type format in long form I can support easily (note open to changing what teams make up nrc type format including existing super rugby sides if makes sense)

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Twoilms]

I think you miss the point. There is no institution, just a bunch of self-interested countries.

Look at the NRL. They have a Commission. They have similar outbreaks of dissent and disagreement. Even though, in theory at least, all parties have huge areas of common agreement.


Get it off your chest, but understand that in the real world, people tend to act in accordance with their own interests or the interests of the organisation they represent. On top of all that, the host broadcasters and in particular the South African political realities are huge factors that nobody can control.


Dissenting views and leaks even happen from dictatorships. And SANZAAR is the opposite of a dictatorship. It is virtual anarchy. Like it or not, it is where we are.

Lets get a commission.

 

[Tex]

I passed Tim Horan on Little Collins St this morning (no doubt on his way to taste the superior Melbourne coffee, as was I) and restrained myself from bailing him up and pushing for the inside mail.

I'm not sure what I'm more revved up/amazed about: the fact that the Rebels might be dropped like a hot tamale or that those in the inner-sanctum have managed to keep schtum for this long without leaking to their preferred journo.

 

[No4918]

I passed Tim Horan on Little Collins St this morning (no doubt on his way to taste the superior Melbourne coffee, as was I) and restrained myself from bailing him up and pushing for the inside mail.

I'm not sure what I'm more revved up/amazed about: the fact that the Rebels might be dropped like a hot tamale or that those in the inner-sanctum have managed to keep schtum for this long without leaking to their preferred journo.

You know this is a big announcement when that happens, they finally get that this is a big problem and appear to be taking it seriously. All five franchises playing ball with the ARU and not leaking. Not one leak out of a system that usually can't stop the local press from finding out what BP had for breakfast. It must be a real humdinger of an announcement when this thing comes out.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lets get a commission.

What's the makeup of the commission? Representatives from each country?

The problem with the comparison with the ARL Commission is that sits above the NRL, State of Origin etc. and overseas everything about the game.

If it was to be similar it would replace SANZAAR and be tasked with making decisions on behalf of the four unions involved.

Super Rugby isn't the pinnacle for any of the countries involved, international rugby is. What's best for Super Rugby isn't necessarily what's best for the national sides of the countries involved and certainly isn't the same from country to country.

I think the suggestion of a commission is just because it sounds good rather than there having been any great thought into how it could operate, what it would do and how it would impact other aspects of the sport for each country.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You know this is a big announcement when that happens, they finally get that this is a big problem and appear to be taking it seriously. All five franchises playing ball with the ARU and not leaking. Not one leak out of a system that usually can't stop the local press from finding out what BP had for breakfast. It must be a real humdinger of an announcement when this thing comes out.

Yeah rugby in OZ is usually as watertight as a sieve, so as you say this must be something significant. The other thing that has me intrigued is the lack of political fighting through preferred correspondents in the press. Normally GeeRob or someone similar would have some juicy mail from a high up person in one of the Unions to spray all over the back page.

 

[terry j]

You read the north west star! Awesome.
Also don't quote entire articles. It's against GAGR policy.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

Did you not just re-quote the entire article??

 

[Twoilms]

What's the makeup of the commission? Representatives from each country?

The problem with the comparison with the ARL Commission is that sits above the NRL, State of Origin etc. and overseas everything about the game.

If it was to be similar it would replace SANZAAR and be tasked with making decisions on behalf of the four unions involved.

Super Rugby isn't the pinnacle for any of the countries involved, international rugby is. What's best for Super Rugby isn't necessarily what's best for the national sides of the countries involved and certainly isn't the same from country to country.

I think the suggestion of a commission is just because it sounds good rather than there having been any great thought into how it could operate, what it would do and how it would impact other aspects of the sport for each country.

There is and should be a distinction made between what is best for Super Rugby and what is best for national unions. Super Rugby should be run for itself, as an end in itself and at a profit.

It's not that fun trying to support a team going broke in a league set up to benefit an international sporting body who is our direct competitor.

Edit: the reality is, very few business that are run for any reason other than profit and sustainability last. It's the nature of the economic system we live in.

Double edit: and that is why a Commission, as an independent administrator should manage the entire competition answerable only to the success of that competition and not the underlying interests of the All Blacks, Wallabies or Saffas.

 

[Braveheart81]

There is and should be a distinction made between what is best for Super Rugby and what is best for national unions. Super Rugby should be run for itself, as an end in itself and at a profit.

It's not that fun trying to support a team going broke in a league set up to benefit an international sporting body who is our direct competitor.

Edit: the reality is, very few business that are run for any reason other than profit and sustainability last. It's the nature of the economic system we live in.

What happens if that first point in allowing Super Rugby to do absolutely everything in its best interests damages the countries involved at international level which is a substantially bigger revenue generator for all of them?

The most obvious point is around player payments and top up contracts. If there were no top up contracts and instead all the player contract budget was at Super Rugby level then the highest paid players would be far less diverse in position which would hurt things at the national level because a whole lot of first choice test players wouldn't be offered a competitive salary at Super Rugby level.

You then have the issue that the participants of Super Rugby are all operating in different markets so what is the best outcome in one market could be terrible in another.

It is a difficult thing to manage.

I think the commission idea is great if the interests are aligned but they're not. Super Rugby also isn't the key product for each of the participant countries so they can't afford to let Super Rugby do things that damages their key product.

 

[Tex]

Yeah rugby in OZ is usually as watertight as a sieve, so as you say this must be something significant. The other thing that has me intrigued is the lack of political fighting through preferred correspondents in the press. Normally GeeRob or someone similar would have some juicy mail from a high up person in one of the Unions to spray all over the back page.

I had a crack at her on twitter after she RT'd the last unsubstantiated rumour out of South Africa. She's in the dark too, which is unique.

 

[Braveheart81]

I had a crack at her on twitter after she RT'd the last unsubstantiated rumour out of South Africa. She's in the dark too, which is unique.

Is retweeting an article from a South African rugby journo any different from one from NZ or Australia or elsewhere?

Pretty much every article about this has contained unsubstantiated rumours including the ones shooting down previous unsubstantiated rumours.