Where to for Super Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

Concord the NSWRU if they approached the council with the view of a long term lease, conditional upon the NSWRU undertaking measurable improvements to the ground. I am sure would have been granted.

The corrupt CEO, cast your memory back some of those old soccer officials were similar.

All I am saying is with the right people and vision Concord could be nay should be a Union Centre of Excellence.

I just don't understand why the NSWRU who had to be bailed out over Concord Oval would want to plough millions of dollars more into it.

It was a white elephant a year after it was finished when the SFS was completed.

No rugby union tests were played at Concord after 1988.

I would be surprised if it would have ever been approved for a substantial upgrade in terms of seating capacity given its location and limited parking and public transport access.

My guess is the construction of Concord Oval would never have happened had it not been needed for the 1987 RWC and that timing not working for the SFS. Whilst I don't know what the 1987 RWC did for the finances of the game in Australia, there's no doubt Concord Oval was a financial disaster for the NSWRU.

 

[half]

I just don't understand why the NSWRU who had to be bailed out over Concord Oval would want to plough millions of dollars more into it.

It was a white elephant a year after it was finished when the SFS was completed.

No rugby union tests were played at Concord after 1988.

I would be surprised if it would have ever been approved for a substantial upgrade in terms of seating capacity given its location and limited parking and public transport access.

My guess is the construction of Concord Oval would never have happened had it not been needed for the 1987 RWC and that timing not working for the SFS. Whilst I don't know what the 1987 RWC did for the finances of the game in Australia, there's no doubt Concord Oval was a financial disaster for the NSWRU.

Two separate issues.

Concord could have been developed along the lines that the NSW Football did.

It should be a rugby centre of excellence.

The next thing is could it have been used for the Tahs, we can debate that point and each side is valid.

However my main point is, why could the NSWRU not convert Concord into a major rugby asset.

This was the point that Red was making. When the state unions went to the meeting they essentially rolled over. They too have been poorly led.

I have bemoaned for yonks its not only ARU level, its across many of our structures.

Case in point, assume we had developed Concord to quite a high standard and had build some on site accommodation. Travelling international teams could train and stay there bus to Homebush or Moore Park not that far.

BUT BUT the point is as Red highlighted is the state unions are as incompetent as the ARU.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was never land the NSWRU owned.

How does the NSWRU build a hotel on a site they don't own and then generate profit from it?

I think there is zero chance the now City of Canada Bay Council would provide a long term lease to anyone that allowed them to fill in parkland with commercial properties for them to profit from.

 

[Twoilms]

It was never land the NSWRU owned.

How does the NSWRU build a hotel on a site they don't own and then generate profit from it?

I think there is zero chance the now City of Canada Bay Council would provide a long term lease to anyone that allowed them to fill in parkland with commercial properties for them to profit from.

I suspect it would need rezoning which means it needs state clearance too.

 

[Sauron]

Knuckles stoking the furnace of the Brumbies-to-Melbourne train. All aboard!

 

[half]

Yeah ok guys it was all impossible we could never have taken a long term lease and then presented plans to council.

Sorta when the NSW Football purchased the current parcel of land that was a farm at the time. They reasoned we can ask to build a motel and accommodation facilities.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah ok guys it was all impossible we could never have taken a long term lease and then presented plans to council.

Sorta when the NSW Football purchased the current parcel of land that was a farm at the time. They reasoned we can ask to build a motel and accommodation facilities.

They were bequeathed the land and from that point knew that whatever avenue they pursued was entirely for their own benefit.

 

[half]

Only half right the land they got they developed and latter sold to developers to complete the purchase of the current site.

So yes they got the land for free, which they developed and sold at Parklea.

But yes they did get a lot of land at the time in the middle of nowhere.

The rest they did themselves.

Yes they had that advantage which then totally excuses the NSWRU for never being able to build something.

Yet leave aside the NSW Football, each or sorry many of the district associations have build far better facilities, NSWRU.


TBH I am struggling to see the point you are trying to make unless its soccer got it easier this time on this issue. However the point I am trying to make is what is bleeding obvious they have managed what assets they have far better than we have and if you compare the NSWRU to NSW Football one is a professionally run with assets, the other is where insiders and old boys network to get invited to key events.

IMO and most have never agreed with me but we need an AFL person preferably or a soccer person for two to three years to develop structures and systems as we constantly prove we can't. See the emergency meeting for the latest proof.

 

[Braveheart81]

TBH I am struggling to see the point you are trying to make unless its soccer got it easier this time on this issue.

The only point I have been trying to make is that they were never similar opportunities because one entity owned their land and could do with it what they wanted and the other didn't.

I am not trying to argue that NSWRU has done anything right or that Valentine Park isn't a wonderful facility (I don't know, I haven't been there). Just that Concord Oval never presented a similar opportunity.

 

[TOCC]

Yeah ok guys it was all impossible we could never have taken a long term lease and then presented plans to council.

Sorta when the NSW Football purchased the current parcel of land that was a farm at the time. They reasoned we can ask to build a motel and accommodation facilities.

Building on land you owned and land you lease are two entirely seperate issues..

Most local and state governments lease land to sporting clubs under zoning of 'Sport and Recreation', there will be variations between level of government but typically that will limit clubs to sporting developments and maybe a licensed club. In Brisbane and other cities, many leases are now done on shorter term leases and renewal of those leases will be assessed on participation levels of the host club. It was in the news recently that one league club has lost its fields due to dwindling numbers.

Further development or commercialisation or the leased land is limited and will face opposition through the DA process, however if the land is owned, the only hurdles will be that of zoning laws, a much more straight forward process.

 

[TOCC]

For instance the QRU have an approved DA for development of Ballymore, however in line with it been a sporting and recreation zoned area, they are limited to development along these lines, and were in the later half of last year the QRU were taking EOI's for development opportunities, with sport medical facilities and education facilities been some of the proposed concepts.

Previously I think there have been attempts to have the land transferred from a DOGIT to ownership of the QRU, which would immediately boost the value of the land through development opportunities, but I think there is little appetite from the government to do that in the electorate.

 

[dru]

Leased or owned you face the same DA hurdles.

Developing on leased land is not not novel, Darling Harbour and the Foreshore Authority is an example. Many others.

Traffic and transport would be an issue at Concord without a doubt, but the whole of Parramatta Rd faces this issue and the State govt has recently allocated funds for a face lift.

I'm personally surprised that NSWRU didn't do something a long time ago. I'm also guessing that the waters have been tested and found too hard.

 

[dru]

Ballymore from recollection is buried inside basically residential areas. Concord basically industrial/commercial. Development opportunity would often be considered greater at Concord. (On that matter in isolation.)

 

[Brumby Jack]

Whilst I don't know what the 1987 RWC did for the finances of the game in Australia, there's no doubt Concord Oval was a financial disaster for the NSWRU.

Correct

 

[RedsHappy]

^^^
I don't think Wests (Brisbane) Rugby Club owned the land under their terrific new development for the Club, did they? (See link above.)

 

[RedsHappy]

Leased or owned you face the same DA hurdles.

Developing on leased land is not not novel, Darling Harbour and the Foreshore Authority is an example. Many others.

Traffic and transport would be an issue at Concord without a doubt, but the whole of Parramatta Rd faces this issue and the State govt has recently allocated funds for a face lift.

I'm personally surprised that NSWRU didn't do something a long time ago. I'm also guessing that the waters have been tested and found too hard.

Dru - as you rightly indicated, it's not correct to infer or argue that 'not owning the land' somehow intrinsically prohibits imaginative and modernising-oriented sporting and related facilities.

Moreover and in general there are many property developments where the land owner grants a facility operator a long-enough-to-viable-for-development lease at a moderate rental, the lessee obtains funding for the built component, and the land owner and the lessee strike (for example) a JV to share in profits or income from the new facility so created and/or for the sale of the entire package at some later date.

Re my bolded text of yours above and to half's point: what if any imaginative or otherwise sporting facility developments has the NSWRU ever done at any time in its history? Genuine question.

 

[Braveheart81]

Re my bolded text of yours above and to half's point: what if any imaginative or otherwise sporting facility developments has the NSWRU ever done at any time in its history? Genuine question.

They spent a lot of money developing Concord Oval which was a massive white elephant within two years, involved corruption from their CEO which landed him in jail and almost sent the organisation to the wall.

I'm kind of glad they haven't attempted anything similar since. They're bad enough at their main business of rugby union let alone engaging in property development.

 

[Braveheart81]

Leased or owned you face the same DA hurdles.

Developing on leased land is not not novel, Darling Harbour and the Foreshore Authority is an example. Many others.

Leased land also requires approval from the lessor and generally would be part of the lease.

Darling Harbour, Sydney Olympic Park etc. generally operate on 99 year leases but it is explicit in the agreements what they are able to do. Clearly those leases were provided to developers for the explicit purpose of developing them.

Councils generally don't lease sporting grounds and parkland to sporting bodies with the ability for them to turn them into something else. Residents would rightly be up in arms.

 

[RedsHappy]

^^^^ RE WESTS rugby club as referenced above.

Just confirmed: that land is owned by the Brisbane City Council and rented to Wests. So it can be done in this modality as I suspected. And btw, that land/rugby ground is tightly surrounded by residential areas.

Have a look (scroll down the photos) at this facility, they and their architects have done a fantastic job:

https://www.hutchinsonbuilders.com.au/projects/community/wests-rugby-union-clubhouse

 

[KOB1987]

Ive glazed over all these posts so I might have missed it but isn't the real problem with concord as a sporting venue that the traffic in off peak is at a snails pace and there's not a train station within cooee?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk