Where to for Super Rugby?

[kickedmyheight]

That's fair enough, but I just think we're going to reach a point where the comp doesn't work for us any more, commercially or rugby wise.

We may do, but right now it is the only show in town for us. If we build the domestic comp properly then we have the option of withdrawing or at least a stronger position to argue for comp changes which suit us. Currently we can't really affect the comp much as we are too reliant on it, but if we had a better domestic comp (like SA and NZ do) then the tables are more even as Aus withdrawing from super becomes actually feasible.

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[KOB1987]

Jamie Pandaram‏ @JamiePandaram 2m2 minutes ago

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ARU has lifted contracting moratorium for Super Rugby. Players who sign for franchise who is later cut will have contracts paid out

 

[Micheal]

Jamie Pandaram‏ @JamiePandaram 2m2 minutes ago

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ARU has lifted contracting moratorium for Super Rugby. Players who sign for franchise who is later cut will have contracts paid out

Thank God franchises can sign players but that seems like a rather expensive way to go about it?

 

[Rebels3]

Why not just rejig the current Australian Rugby Championship that was on this year.

Year 1

Winner Shute Shield/NSW v Winner QLD Prem
Winner ACT v Winner Pindan
Winner Dewar v Combined states (TAS/SA and NT)

Year 2

Winner NSW/QLD v Winner ACT/Pindan
Winner Dewar/Combined States v Loser NSW/QLD
Loser ACT/Pindan v Loser Dewar/Combined States

rinse and repeat.

Works as a promotion/relegation system

Agree on the notion of a national knockout comp wouldn't work, we'd have 100+ score lines and some people seriously injured. Football doesn't have the physical toll or the ability to blow a score out like rugby does

The other thing i'd like to introduce and im surprised it's never been talked about, how about the winner of the NRC v the winner of the NPC. We'd get thrashed potentially but believe it'd bring some more cred to the NRC

 

[kiap]

Thank God franchises can sign players but that seems like a rather expensive way to go about it?

They've waited so long, with the overseas deadlines at ten minutes to midnight now, that the sums can probably be done on it for the stragglers.

 

[Slim 293]

Thank God franchises can sign players but that seems like a rather expensive way to go about it?

The other problem I see is that the Tahs, Brumbies and Reds are now all going to b able to scoop up players that want a guaranteed squad position.........

 

[kiap]

We may do, but right now it is the only show in town for us. If we build the domestic comp properly then we have the option of withdrawing or at least a stronger position to argue for comp changes which suit us. Currently we can't really affect the comp much as we are too reliant on it, but if we had a better domestic comp (like SA and NZ do) then the tables are more even as Aus withdrawing from super becomes actually feasible.

I don't think too many are seriously suggesting dropping Soup all together before the end of 2020. It absolutely needs to be rejigged to salvage what what can be salvaged, but totally withdrawing from the present agreement would be a contractual nightmare.

But the whole landscape changes after 2020. The same traditional broadcast deals won't be there for this tired, over-extended ridiculous competition, even if we wanted to keep it.

Plans need to be put in motion now before the end arrives.

 

[Micheal]

The more I think about this the stupider it gets, as a very minimum the players below could find homes at other franchises:

From the Rebels:

+ Timani
+ McMahon
+ Fainga'a
+ Hodge
+ Koroibete
+ Naivalu
+ Lomax
+ Maddocks
+ Tuipolotu

From the Force:

+ Coleman
+ DHP
+ RHP
+ McCalman
+ Naisarani
+ Phillip
+ Hardwick
+ Meakes
+ Peni
+ Rona
+ Lance
+ Louwrens
+ Ruru

So what happens if the Force are cut? 13 of Australia's most promising up and comers are left contractless a couple weeks out from the season, after the other franchises have already filled their rosters and max'd out their salary cap?

Where the fuck does Coleman, a regular Wallaby, go?

What about Naisarani, possibly the form 8 of the Australian conference in his debut year?

Ridiculous.

 

[Upthenuts]

The more I think about this the stupider it gets, as a very minimum the players below could find homes at other franchises:

From the Rebels:

+ Timani
+ McMahon
+ Fainga'a
+ Hodge
+ Koroibete
+ Naivalu
+ Lomax
+ Maddocks
+ Tuipolotu

From the Force:

+ Coleman
+ DHP
+ RHP
+ McCalman
+ Naisarani
+ Phillip
+ Hardwick
+ Meakes
+ Peni
+ Rona
+ Lance
+ Louwrens
+ Ruru

So what happens if the Force are cut? 13 of Australia's most promising up and comers are left contractless a couple weeks out from the season, after the other franchises have already filled their rosters and max'd out their salary cap?

Where the fuck does Coleman, a regular Wallaby, go?

What about Naisarani, possibly the form 8 of the Australian conference in his debut year?

Ridiculous.

the crusaders love a good aussie, shame theres no good 9s or tens, cause the blues sure as hell could. do with one.

 

[Micheal]

the crusaders love a good aussie, shame theres no good 9s or tens, cause the blues sure as hell could. do with one.

Louwrens and Ruru are fantastic 9s at the Force.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don't think too many are seriously suggesting dropping Soup all together before the end of 2020. It absolutely needs to be rejigged to salvage what what can be salvaged, but totally withdrawing from the present agreement would be a contractual nightmare.

But the whole landscape changes after 2020. The same traditional broadcast deals won't be there for this tired, over-extended ridiculous competition, even if we wanted to keep it.

Plans need to be put in motion now before the end arrives.

There was a suggestion back on pg 318 that would cut Super Rugby down to 14 weeks in total by playing the entire regular season in conference before the top 2 moved on to the finals. I then suggested re-organising the season to run the NRC during the current Super Rugby window and the Super Rugby in what would be currently the RC and NRC windows.

The RC would then follow plus inbound and outbound tours.

This way. Everyone gets their national championship plus Super Rugby with the international aspect leading into Test Rugby. The whole season could run Feb/Mar through to early december.

 

[Braveheart81]

Super Rugby teams are struggling to make ends meet with 7 home games. Cutting it down to 5 would be disastrous financially.

 

[Rebels3]

The more I think about this the stupider it gets, as a very minimum the players below could find homes at other franchises:

From the Rebels:

+ Timani (NSW/ACT/WA)
+ McMahon (NSW/ACT/WA/QLD)
+ Fainga'a (ACT)
+ Hodge (NSW/ACT/WA/QLD)
+ Koroibete (NSW/ACT/QLD)
+ Naivalu (NSW/ACT/QLD)
+ Lomax (NSW/WA/QLD)
+ Maddocks (NSW/ACT/QLD)
+ Tuipolotu (ACT)
+ T Smith (NSW/ACT/WA/QLD)
+ Hanson (ACT/WA)
+ Debreczini (ACT)
+ Jeffries (NSW)
+ English (NSW/ACT/QLD)


From the Force:

+ DHP (NSW/ACT/QLD/VIC)
+ RHP (NSW/VIC)
+ McCalman (NSW/ACT)
+ Naisarani (NSW/ACT)
+ Phillip (NSW/VIC)
+ Hardwick (NSW/ACT)
+ Meakes (NSW/ACT/VIC)
+ Peni (NSW/ACT)
+ Rona (NSW/ACT)
+ Lance (ACT/VIC)
+ Louwrens (VIC)
+ Cottrell (when fit) (NSW/ACT)
+ Verity-Amm (NSW/ACT/QLD)
+ Cowan (NSW/QLD/VIC)
+ Faulkner (NSW/QLD/VIC)

Fixed

Iv added in brackets, each team which teams 23 would improve

 

[FiveStarStu]

Jamie Pandaram‏ @JamiePandaram 2m2 minutes ago

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ARU has lifted contracting moratorium for Super Rugby. Players who sign for franchise who is later cut will have contracts paid out

I didn't think the ARU could put their finances at any more risk with all this nonsense, but there you go.

 

[kiap]

a suggestion back on pg 318 that would cut Super Rugby down to 14 weeks in total … before the top 2 moved on to the finals

Yeah, any trans-continental part needs to be shorter, sharper IMO.

Obviously exact details would need to be hammered out.

Everyone gets their national championship plus Super Rugby with the international aspect leading into Test Rugby

Positives there for sure - domestic control over the national pro matches.

Personally I'm not sure about switching the NRC because 8-9 teams seems too many for mine to be feeding those same teams into transnational match-ups. But there are ways around that (as people have already proposed earlier in the thread).

 

[kiap]

Super Rugby teams are struggling to make ends meet with 7 home games. Cutting it down to 5 would be disastrous financially.

In which case, add more.

 

[Braveheart81]

In which case, add more.

But then you just have Super Rugby as it is now.

 

[kiap]

But then you just have Super Rugby as it is now.

I'm smarter than that, Braveheart.

And so are you.

I will give you the chance to go first to see if there are any options — any whatsoever — that provide more than 5 home games without being Super Rugby as it is now.

Then I shall come back later and post one myself. But I gotta go for now.

 

[stoff]

Really.

I sometimes wonder why I bother.

You are in good company because hhhhmmmm about 90 to 95% of rugby folk I speak to are of the same opinion.

Serious question is it because its soccer and therefore saying something nice or acknowledging something they may do better runs against the grain????

The Nobody Really Cares competition is made up of 8 teams less than 4 years old and is played over 8 weeks and does not enjoy the full support of the rugby community.

Compare this to soccer's National Premier League. If you really think they are similar aside from having a similar objective's then !@$!!!! I don't know TBH.

100 teams, Australia.

Controlled by state associations not FFA.

They play a full season most over 20 matches.

By next season all A-League teams will have their youth teams playing in the NPL taking numbers to 110 teams.

All teams have been around for yonks and are part of soccer's history, take Adamstown in Newcastle which is the oldest soccer club in Australia 135 years old or something like that.

Each team needs to appoint a coaching director trained to a certain level.

Each team needs to have an academy from U 8 or earlier thu to U 16 or latter.

Each team needs a field to play on.

The competition is broken down between the states

The states then break down their allotted teams into regions.

At seasons end, each state region has a champion. The state regions them enter a knock out competition to determine the states best.

Then the state champions play off for the Australian champion at the National League Level.


NOW THIS IS THE INTERESTING PART.

Rugby could do the same, SS in Sydney, Central Coast, Newcastle Hunter, ACT competition, Brisbane competition etc.

THEN OMG if this could ever happen, the state champions in NSW, QLD & ACT could have a match against Reds, Tahs etc.

Thats how you grow, use existing teams, use existing systems, and use our history.

Woodies V Tahs IMO more would back the Woodies.

Our equivalent to national premier structure is Shute Shield, Hospitals Cup, John I Dent, Dewar shield, etc. The NRC is the A-League equivalent - not universally supported by traditional club people and played at for the sport a weird time of year. Super Rugby really is the equivalent along with Europe, of all the other rich foreign leagues in soccer. It's the one the best play in and the kiddies want to play in. I am asking you a serious question because based on the above, I can't see what your angle is here - is it a national cup comp (which btw the AFL tried and discarded)?



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[Braveheart81]

I'm smarter than that, Braveheart.

And so are you.

I will give you the chance to go first to see if there are any options — any whatsoever — that provide more than 5 home games without being Super Rugby as it is now.

Then I shall come back later and post one myself. But I gotta go for now.

This specific proposal was about shortening Super Rugby and making the majority of it domestic only.

Personally for 2018 I'd keep 18 teams, reorganise into 3x6, play home and away within conference (10 games), and 3 games each against other conferences.

For Australian teams that means 1 or 2 games in SA, 2 or 1 games in NZ/Arg, 1 game in Japan.

For NZ teams, 1 game in Arg, 1 or 2 games in SA, 2 or 1 games in Aus/Japan.

For SA teams, 1 or 2 games in Aus/Japan, 2 or 1 games in NZ/Arg.

16 regular season matches which is one more than we have currently so every team is guaranteed 8 home games.

3 conference winners host a final, next 5 teams make up the playoffs. 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7 etc.

If you wanted to have more international games, cut it down to 8 conference games and 4 games against each other conference.