Where to for Super Rugby?

[Inside Shoulder]

Will extra money do much to help the pathways? Seems more a structural than funds issue and your points 2 and 3 are the serious problems holding back change.

Its a bloody good question.
Im not sure how many players we really lose to league because of the lack of money in 18-20s.
I think we need to have a regional comp to get more games at a higher standard than club but not state based and that costs money.
And we need to spend money so that its not just or mostly the private schools playing between 12 and 18 years. This ship has sailed I think.

 

[RedsHappy]

No money.
No will to do so.
No idea what to do or where to start. 3 competing codes better at it and in the game of doing it longer.

NZ's long held position is no Aus teams in NPC. Tew seems very anti Aus - but he may be taking a line to produce an outcome.
Super actually got going back in the day because of the huge effort the QLD made in playing NZ provincial teams and the rewards that provided for them in their annual clashes with NSW.

Yes, and yes.

I don't think Tew for one moment is 'anti-Australia' as such.

It's an open secret in senior NZRU circles that the ARU and many of its senior officers are held in contempt for the poor job they have done with/for Aus rugby.

For the NZRU to insert its best assets into the Aus rugby system as it is, or vice versa as it is would be, for Tew, like putting his first born child into an acid bath.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Once rugby is dead and buried in Australia, where does Tew think the AFL and NRL are going to look at next?

Auckland 9's, whilst struggling, still dwarfs the crowds which attend the Wellington 7's, and the Warriors are increasingly targeting New Zealand rugby's best talent.

if he is a student of history he will see that the ARU have dropped the ball a number of times before and been rescued by the NZRU - he may be putting us to the brink of collapse so that we will agree to any terms he demands - which would presumably include getting the game back on a sustainable footing.
Not sure the Warriors will ever be mainstream in NZ - but i wouldn't bet the code on that.
For my part the sooner the NZRU takes over the ARU the better.

 

[wamberal]

Why would the NZRU want the ARU?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why would the NZRU want the ARU?

Its better for them if there is credible force for the game they play in heaven in their nearest neighbour: kind of like Stalin needed East Germany and a wall to prevent fascists invading mother russia

 

[dru]

I love the optimism, but it says a lot about Australian rugby that people are hoping for a rescue from World Rugby and the NZRU to keep the game going here.

 

[wamberal]

Its better for them if there is credible force for the game they play in heaven in their nearest neighbour: kind of like Stalin needed East Germany and a wall to prevent fascists invading mother russia

Mmmmm. It would kill the game at the top level, wouldn't it? Conflicts of interest would be trumps. Conspiracy theories would be rife. The Wallabies' credibility would be shot to pieces.


Otherwise it's a great idea, if they are prepared to put a shedload of money in. Which of course they wouldn't.

 

[BAR]

Money will help, at least if it's well-spent. Australian rugby needs to be able to provide top-notch coaching and decent training facilities. We're competing with football codes that are more-or-less semi-professional from under 15s.

Rugby's approach to junior development appears quite passive in contrast to League. My son was 12 when I was approached about his participation in an NRL development program. This was on the sideline of a club match, not a self nominated selection trial - they are out looking. We didn't take up the offer to participate but at 14 my son has several friends who play both codes but who seem to be committed to a future in League because they did enter that system.

 

[wamberal]

I love the optimism, but it says a lot about Australian rugby that people are hoping for a rescue from World Rugby and the NZRU to keep the game going here.

I think WRU would be a bit worried if we were on the brink. I know all the stories about the success of the game every else, but we are a pretty good test market. Where we go, others might follow, as the times and fashions change.


So there might just be an incentive for them to see what they can do to tidy up some of the egregiously difficult and unattractive parts of the game. Why not do it now, before it becomes necessary.


And a more accessible and understandable game would possibly give the sport an entree into the biggest untapped market in the world. Namely, the PRC.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Mmmmm. It would kill the game at the top level, wouldn't it? Conflicts of interest would be trumps. Conspiracy theories would be rife. The Wallabies' credibility would be shot to pieces.


Otherwise it's a great idea, if they are prepared to put a shedload of money in. Which of course they wouldn't.

Quick purge.
Female CEO.
Central contracting.
Its not as if we don't manage to find conflicts of interest now!
As for conspiracy theories: its one case where a theory would be an improvement on the conspiracies that are actually running the game at the moment (i.e. a conspiracy to get rid of the Force).

 

[joeyjohnz]

(i.e. a conspiracy to get rid of the Force).

A conspiracy is something that is unfounded and cannot be proven true.

 

[TOCC]

Why would the NZRU want the ARU?

Because Australian and New Zealand share close economic ties, Australia is New Zealand second largest trading partner, because economies of scales suggests New Zealand can't afford to sit in an isolated timezone segregated from the major rugby union broadcast markets. Because economically its in the interest of New Zealand to leverage the consumer base of Australian to further its own brand and earn greater profits to reinvest back into their own game.

 

[RedsHappy]

Because Australian and New Zealand share close economic ties, Australia is New Zealand second largest trading partner, because economies of scales suggests New Zealand can't afford to sit in an isolated timezone segregated from the major rugby union broadcast markets. Because economically its in the interest of New Zealand to leverage the consumer base of Australian to further its own brand and earn greater profits to reinvest back into their own game.

Perfectly put.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

A conspiracy is something that is unfounded and cannot be proven true.

No - that's a conspiracy theory

 

[dru]

Some perspective from South Africa - I find it hard to mount an argument against it - basically they a re unhappy of the unfairness of the hapless Aussies only having to cut one team team to the Africans two.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/s18-sas-two-team-sacrifice-unjust-20170430

2020 negotiations will be interesting.

 

[chibimatty]

I don't think NZ would want Perth in the NPC, we're too far away. That was the initial reason for vetoing our Super Rugby inclusion back in 2002, their preferred option was Melbourne or one of the other eastern seaboard bids to be the Australian expansion team.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Some perspective from South Africa - I find it hard to mount an argument against it - basically they a re unhappy of the unfairness of the hapless Aussies only having to cut one team team to the Africans two.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/s18-sas-two-team-sacrifice-unjust-20170430

2020 negotiations will be interesting.

Yep, on current form you'd have to say they've got a sound argument. Still, it wasn't so long ago that they were in the same boat, so swings and roundabouts.

The 2020 negotiations will indeed be interesting, but I've said before that we'll need to have plan B around a national comp of our own. I can't see the deal getting any better for us, neither can I see the commercials of it working out in the long term. It looks increasingly like the competition is cooked and I wouldn't have said that 12 months ago. Maybe the 15 team comp will resurrect things next year but I think a lot of the damage has already been done, here in OZ at least. We need to have a good hard think about walking away from the bargaining table and thinking about what's good for our own footy, just for a change.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Its better for them if there is credible force for the game they play in heaven in their nearest neighbour: kind of like Stalin needed East Germany and a wall to prevent fascists invading mother russia

I agree with the premise, but don't expect the NZRU to ever assist us again. They did it at the end of the 70's and with good reason (like we did with cricket for them), but I can't see it happening again. In the professional era why would they? We need to sort ourselves out. We're big enough and ugly enough to do it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yep, on current form you'd have to say they've got a sound argument. Still, it wasn't so long ago that they were in the same boat, so swings and roundabouts.

The 2020 negotiations will indeed be interesting, but I've said before that we'll need to have plan B around a national comp of our own. I can't see the deal getting any better for us, neither can I see the commercials of it working out in the long term. It looks increasingly like the competition is cooked and I wouldn't have said that 12 months ago. Maybe the 15 team comp will resurrect things next year but I think a lot of the damage has already been done, here in OZ at least. We need to have a good hard think about walking away from the bargaining table and thinking about what's good for our own footy, just for a change.

As I read it there seems to be a view developing that all sports - NRL/AFL have been overpaid. This does not augur well for the next negotiation.
I frankly cannot see how the Australian public will cop the Sunwolves - they'll never be the best and not being Australian means care factor zero.
The plan seems to be to keep the worst elements of the current design but reduce team numbers. That can only lead to a less interesting comp.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As I read it there seems to be a view developing that all sports - NRL/AFL have been overpaid. This does not augur well for the next negotiation.
I frankly cannot see how the Australian public will cop the Sunwolves - they'll never be the best and not being Australian means care factor zero.
The plan seems to be to keep the worst elements of the current design but reduce team numbers. That can only lead to a less interesting comp.

Yep and cricket is about to find out how far the market has dropped. When you read UBS's commentary on Ch. Nein's coverage and the cost to them it's a bit sobering. It used to be taken for granted what a great product coverage rights were (a bit like a World Cup or Olympics), but in these more austere times I think that conventional wisdom is being challenged.