Where to for Super Rugby?

[Quick Hands]

After watching the Sunwolves for the first time in a long time (and maybe ever) I just cannot fathom why they are to survive and, worse, be in our conference.
They are appalling in a way that no Aussie team has ever been.
In our pool they will be a soft game: so not only do we lose 35+ pro pathways and opportunities for the Tahs and Reds usual talent oversights to get a chance, we also lose 2 hard games in circumstances where most agree that a lack of enough hard games in the early adult/late teenage years is having a large impact on our players' readiness for the big time, including the U20s WC.

Those kids will go to NZ, as Michael A'alatoa has done. Not good enough for the Waratahs, but seems to be going pretty well with the Crusaders

 

[Quick Hands]

Links? For the two separate independent reports.

Way back near the beginning of the thread.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

If that's the criteria then we're going to have to ditch all the Kiwi teams bar Auckland.....

I don't think Dismal will mind.

This may surprise you but there's over 3,000,000 of us living in NZ but outside of Auckland incl ~700K in the Waikato & Bay of Plenty Regions (Chiefs); ~600K in Canterbury; and ~500K in Wellington. Only Otago/ Southland (~300K) would fail the 400K test. Note also these figures don't include Manawatu, Hawkes Bay etc in the case of the 'canes, nor Tasman & West Coast/ Buller in the case of the Crusaders, etc. Simple maths suggests there's ~900K living in those areas.

I know the point you were trying to make but facts is facts

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Is possum head trying to re-write history?

"I knew I had a massive challenge on my hands: complacency had set in off the back of many years of success," O'Neill said. "All the financial projections suggested we were likely to reach Armageddon by 2014-15.

"In 2012, while addressing the financial situation, the board asked the inevitable connected question: 'How can we win the World Cup in 2015?' That's when we presented the customised version of the New Zealand model.

"It was focused on players' performance, coaching and medical science across all Wallabies and Super Rugby teams. After a day-and-a-half debate, the board agreed. Six weeks later, they recanted because of the political backlash from NSW, Queensland and Victoria and they backed off.

"I'm not saying it would've worked miracles but the on-field success of the Wallabies and the Super Rugby teams would've been inarguably better had that decision stuck five years ago."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ard-did-nothing-about-it-20170413-gvkenh.html

At least some of what he's saying doesn't match my recollection but TBF at the time I didn't really pay too much attention to what was going on in Australian rugby, I was more concerned with "how are we gunna beat these pricks?".

 

[moa999]

After watching the Sunwolves for the first time in a long time (and maybe ever) I just cannot fathom why they are to survive and, worse, be in our conference.

Sunwolves will get better once they fix the domestic league issue and actually let them pick the best Japanese players

 

[Ignoto]

With the Rebels media release last night I now see this only going 1 way.

ARU negotiate with Cox for the Rebels license back. Why would you want to keep him when he is clearly angling for financial damages as well as a chunk of any savings you make from cutting a team. He's going to be a thorn in your side so why not just take the pain and get rid of him now. I'd imagine this is the ARU's realisation now.

What's stopping SANZAAR from making a new "Super Super Rugby" next year where teams need to re-apply for a license?

Being somewhat of a decade or so too young, I could be totally wrong on how it all transpired, but didn't Packer do this with the Cricket and then it also occurred in Rugby League with the establishment of the NRL (formely the ARL).

 

[Slim 293]

This may surprise you but there's over 3,000,000 of us living in NZ but outside of Auckland incl ~700K in the Waikato & Bay of Plenty Regions (Chiefs); ~600K in Canterbury; and ~500K in Wellington. Only Otago/ Southland (~300K) would fail the 400K test. Note also these figures don't include Manawatu, Hawkes Bay etc in the case of the 'canes, nor Tasman & West Coast/ Buller in the case of the Crusaders, etc. Simple maths suggests there's ~900K living in those areas.

I know the point you were trying to make but facts is facts

And there's probably enough of you lot in inner city Melbourne to start up a sixth franchise........

 

[BLR]

Sunwolves will get better once they fix the domestic league issue and actually let them pick the best Japanese players

The problem is when the height of Japanese society is based around 'companies' and the pro league is based around this fact, will this happen?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

And there's probably enough of you lot in inner city Melbourne to start up a sixth franchise....

Gold Coast & Logan, maybe

 

[wamberal]

They don't call them QueeNZlanders for nothing, do they?

 

[Quick Hands]

Is possum head trying to re-write history?

"I knew I had a massive challenge on my hands: complacency had set in off the back of many years of success," O'Neill said. "All the financial projections suggested we were likely to reach Armageddon by 2014-15.

"In 2012, while addressing the financial situation, the board asked the inevitable connected question: 'How can we win the World Cup in 2015?' That's when we presented the customised version of the New Zealand model.

"It was focused on players' performance, coaching and medical science across all Wallabies and Super Rugby teams. After a day-and-a-half debate, the board agreed. Six weeks later, they recanted because of the political backlash from NSW, Queensland and Victoria and they backed off.

"I'm not saying it would've worked miracles but the on-field success of the Wallabies and the Super Rugby teams would've been inarguably better had that decision stuck five years ago."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ard-did-nothing-about-it-20170413-gvkenh.html

At least some of what he's saying doesn't match my recollection but TBF at the time I didn't really pay too much attention to what was going on in Australian rugby, I was more concerned with "how are we gunna beat these pricks?".

This is a guy who had a "Non-disparagement clause" written into his exit agreement with the ARU.

The thought of him in red pants is nauseating.

 

[Quick Hands]

Unfortuntely for Billy P though, he's on the record with a lot of things. (My bold)

"It's likely to be a four-conference model and this will be finalised in the next couple of weeks, to be announced," Pulver said.
Pulver's position comes despite the Australian provinces and the players' association having pressured the ARU chief executive to withdraw from of the South Africa-led expansion plan.
South Africa has insisted that the Port Elizabeth-based Southern Kings, created as part of a push to increase black participation in rugby, being reinstated to Super Rugby after being relegated last year.
SANZAR has bowed to the might of South Africa, who provide almost half of the broadcast revenue, and New Zealand are against breaking up the partnership.
But there are concerns among the Australian provinces over the potential impact of an expanded tournament such as a Super 18, which would see the number of derbies fall from eight to six. Such a cut would mean one less home game every second year and the fears are that could push the provinces into financial ruin unless there was some compensation.
Pulver said he understood the concerns, but the Super 18 model would best improve the competition and broadcasting revenue.
"I'm more than happy to go along with it," he said. "I think it will be a terrific structure for the game."
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other...rilled-by-states-over-super-18-plan/ar-AAyXQB

 

[dru]

Dru, you quite clearly have a better fix on the SA rugby scene than I do, but in my recollection it was the Lions, not the Cheetahs, who were dicked around with the Kings comings and goings. Am I wrong?

Ah! Well done BR. A mis-connection on my part as my annoyance reaches peaks both in Aus and SA.

I stand corrected.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Sunwolves will get better once they fix the domestic league issue and actually let them pick the best Japanese players

their "best" aint such a step up from what theyre fielding now. That is, when the actual japanese players can even get a start for the Sunwolves...... ahead of some ring-in foreigner who was....... unwanted by his Super Rugby team. Why the fuck are the Sunwolves even there then? It aint for the expansion of the game aspect for Japanese players and it sure aint for the "asian TV money". No man-in-the-street even knows they exist. Games are only on cable TV that barely any prick even bothers with in japan. Just had a look outside our tenement block, 11 floors, 44 dwellings and only 4 dishes. I'm one. The other 3 probably just for the grot channel.

re:Force one thing really not mentioned much and I hate to bring it up, but for virtully their entire existence they have played turgid boring as fuck dogshit anti-rugby. Just no potential at all for anything exciting to happen during their matches there I said it. Still shouldnt ditch them though I reckon, for the grass roots potential alone.

If that's the criteria then we're going to have to ditch all the Kiwi teams bar Auckland.....

I don't think Dismal will mind.

already in the works mate:
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/auckland-blues-to-infinity-and-beyond.13827/page-20#post-921620

 

[Brumby Runner]

This may surprise you but there's over 3,000,000 of us living in NZ but outside of Auckland incl ~700K in the Waikato & Bay of Plenty Regions (Chiefs); ~600K in Canterbury; and ~500K in Wellington. Only Otago/ Southland (~300K) would fail the 400K test. Note also these figures don't include Manawatu, Hawkes Bay etc in the case of the 'canes, nor Tasman & West Coast/ Buller in the case of the Crusaders, etc. Simple maths suggests there's ~900K living in those areas.

I know the point you were trying to make but facts is facts

Hey WOB, what about the Brumbies' catchment area taking in the Riverina, Monaro and South Coast areas of NSW? Not sure what that would boost the population figures to, but would still be comparable to or larger than Canterbury, Wellington I would think.

 

[Poidevinfan]

One shame I feel is that both NSW and QLD haven't done enough. They have always had the pick of the players and I do not feel they will better from the distribution of the liquidated franchise.

Of both Rebels and Force I see only 10 players that the other 4 teams will be interested in. Then there will be players foisted upon them because of existing contract

Rebels 10
Toby Smith
James Hanson
Laurie Weeks
Tyrel Lomax
Lopeti Timani
Sean McMahon
Amanaki Mafi
Nick Stirzaker
Sefa Naivalu
Reece Hodge
Marika Koroibete.

Force 10
Adam Coleman
Tetra Faulkner
Ben McCalman
Richard Hardwick
Isa Naisarani
Jono Lance
Curtis Rona
Bill Meakes
Chance Peni
Dane Haylett-Petty

A lot of players would be considered equally good and each remaining would like their guys.

An Example at TH Makin/Lomax/Vui/Tupou/Dave Lolohea

More than those ten to be picked up? Even if they just become bench players or part of the squad for another team. What about Jordy Reid for example I have had my eye on him for a while as a valuable player.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Can see the ARU’s side,, not wanting to biff more cash down the shit franchise money hole but on the other hand one thing B.Cannon mentioned in the podcast was if the Force were gone, his - and all the players - hard slog would count for pretty much nothing. Vaporised. Must be a huge blow for a bigtime sportsman, they don’t get to that level without some sort of ego. Their “legacy”, for want of a less haughty term, deemed as now non-existent, or at least rendered into asterisked phantom-limb status.

First thing I thought of when people mentioned the Brumbies getting possibly culled, “what about the Gregan & Larkham Stand?” Just biffing away all that tradition relegates their careers, and all the others, Mortlock, Finnegan etc, as sort of yeah nah didn’t really happen though did it? Delete the Brumbies? Fahhk, this Super Rugby has to count for something doesn’t it? Once upon a time they won the whole fucking thing! Jesus, why don’t they just biff the Boston Celtics out of the fucken NBA while they’re at it?

 

[Brumby Runner]

For the Rebels, I would think the two young Jacks, Maddox and Mc..., would be in favour, and for the Force, Scoble, Vui, RHP, Koteka and Louwrens. There may be more. In any case, there will likely be a lot of surplus players on the market.

 

[KevinO]

For the Rebels, I would think the two young Jacks, Maddox and Mc., would be in favour, and for the Force, Scoble, Vui, RHP, Koteka and Louwrens. There may be more. In any case, there will likely be a lot of surplus players on the market.

I would think some French amd English clubs are watching this all unfold very closely. After all the Rebels have been a feeder club for them for a while now, PAE, Pyle, Jones, Vuna, Leicester wing whos name escapes me right now, Meehan, Harris etc

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[Poidevinfan]

For the Rebels, I would think the two young Jacks, Maddox and Mc., would be in favour, and for the Force, Scoble, Vui, RHP, Koteka and Louwrens. There may be more. In any case, there will likely be a lot of surplus players on the market.

I read an interview somewhere yesterday and a player felt that competition would be stiff for spots.

Some NZ fans have observed a gap between the starting 15 and the bench for some of the Aussie franchises. With the surplus players available all 23 guys on each of the 4 teams should be hopefully solid super rugby standard. Each team will pick up 3-4 players. It should be worth about 5 points a game to each side.