Where to for Super Rugby?

[sidelineview]

I understand what you are saying, however i believe people are getting hurt. There is a spiral of negative disillusionment, some more than justified, some amplified through ones own doing.

The disillusionment was already there, particularly concerning grassroots and the growth of the game.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Is this right?

• RugbyWA currently own the operating licence for the Super Rugby team
• The ARU own the Western Force intellectual property
• ARU currently employ the Western Force players, coaches and staff

Own the Force would

• Acquire the Super Rugby licence, which would be given up by RugbyWA
• Buy back the intellectual property from the ARU
• Re-employ all coaches, players and staff
• Take on the grant from the ARU each year (~$5m each year)
• Have to come up with operating funds from sponsorship, matchday etc (another ~$10m each year)

 

[Braveheart81]

Is this right?

• RugbyWA currently own the operating licence for the Super Rugby team
• The ARU own the Western Force intellectual property
• ARU currently employ the Western Force players, coaches and staff

Own the Force would

• Acquire the Super Rugby licence, which would be given up by RugbyWA
• Buy back the intellectual property from the ARU

I think it ends here.

The Own the Force entity "Western Force Owners Ltd" would not take over running the football team. That would be the existing entity.

Clearly the group collectively would have to get their finances in order such that the operating entity was able to remain solvent.

 

[I like to watch]

Jesus christ what a prick Alan Jones is.

Holier-than-thou and won't even let Clyne get a word in, despite the fact that everyone whose listening wants to hear Cameron's point-of-view, not his.

Lets put Jones in charge and see the whole code fold in 34 minutes.

Edit: still listening. For fucksake. Jones' diction is just one logical fallacy after another, with a bit of cognitive dissonance and condescending bullshit occasionally thrown in there to spice it up.

He genuinely believes that if you're the loudest and angriest then you've won the argument.

Edit 2: if you're heading out on Saturday replay this interview and sip every time Alan Jones says "777 million", mentions the Bledisloe cup or interrupts Clyne. You'll be Kurtley Beale captain punching or Quade Cooper laptop stealing drunk in no time.

Edit 3: add "Japan" and "power of veto" to the drinking game.

You had me at ' he's a prick' ...

 

[I like to watch]

I'm confused why you'd think this.

COO is a very common position within any moderately sized company and larger.

They are almost always the second most senior executive position within a company.

i wouldn't get caught up too much on titles.
Lots of people want fancy titles, for ordinary jobs, just as many execs have 'biggest chair syndrome'.
COO's usually demand more $$ than GM Operations
So he's on good coin!

 

[Braveheart81]

i wouldn't get caught up too much on titles.
Lots of people want fancy titles, for ordinary jobs, just as many execs have 'biggest chair syndrome'.
COO's usually demand more $$ than GM Operations
So he's on good coin!

Agreed.

I think it's entirely a reflection that he was recruited to be the second most senior ARU employee rather than the 3rd or 4th.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think it ends here.

The Own the Force entity "Western Force Owners Ltd" would not take over running the football team. That would be the existing entity.

Clearly the group collectively would have to get their finances in order such that the operating entity was able to remain solvent.

So ARU continue to employ the players, staff and coaches? Or does that revert to Own the Force, or to the "existing" Western Force?

Would the Own the Force entity have to fund any shortfall in the annual operations of the team?

Does it make any difference to any associated legal challanges, if the ARU has promised RugbyWA (and not Own the Force) that they will continue to have a Super Rugby licence until 2020.

 

[Braveheart81]

So ARU continue to employ the players, staff and coaches? Or does that revert to Own the Force, or to the "existing" Western Force?

Would the Own the Force entity have to fund any shortfall in the annual operations of the team?

Does it make any difference to any associated legal challanges, if the ARU has promised RugbyWA (and not Own the Force) that they will continue to have a Super Rugby licence until 2020.

The existing entity that runs the Force would continue to run it. Presumably they would have to reorganise their finances so they can take on the financial liabilities again.

Own the Force (Western Force Owners Ltd) have no claim to anything. They are raising money on the hope that they can then acquire the licence. There is no guarantee that it will be able to happen.

Western Force Owners Ltd wouldn't have a legal obligation to fund a shortfall in the entity that is running the Super Rugby team.

 

[BLR]

Western Force Owners Ltd wouldn't have a legal obligation to fund a shortfall in the entity that is running the Super Rugby team.

I believe excess will be used on grassroots.

 

[stoff]

So ARU continue to employ the players, staff and coaches? Or does that revert to Own the Force, or to the "existing" Western Force?

Would the Own the Force entity have to fund any shortfall in the annual operations of the team?

Does it make any difference to any associated legal challanges, if the ARU has promised RugbyWA (and not Own the Force) that they will continue to have a Super Rugby licence until 2020.

The prospectus says:
"The primary objective of the Company is to secure the operating licence for the Western Force from the Australian Rugby Union, and also acquire assets from the Australian Rugby Union to operate a professional Western Australian rugby team participating in the Super Rugby competing." I assume the agreement with RugbyWA was for the IP only . Anyone know for sure?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

I believe excess will be used on grassroots.

This has zero relevance to my post.

 

[BLR]

This has zero relevance to my post.

Maybe I should have quoted the previous paragraph on what the money is being used for. My bad.

 

[No4918]

I believe excess will be used on grassroots.

Right There has been a lot of grassroots talk from ARU that is yet to amount to anything.

The decision, judging from Clyne's comments, has very little to do with player depth and a lot to do with the cost of having 5 franchises. It might suck but if they really believe that propping up 5 franchises is unsustainable they have made the right decision for the code, well it may last a few more years before major issues (if we aren't there yet). It's for this reason I think the grassroots stuff is utter pie in the sky fantasy. This move will stop us going backwards financially, there will be very very little left for grassroots. Unless you mean the grassroots in the garden at the new HQ. They will be getting a full time groundskeeper to look after them out of the savings.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He's another person who is outraged by what is happening and is disillusioned with the state of rugby in this country in general. In particular, the neglect of the grassroots of the game.

Another in a long list of people; former players etc etc. Supporters of the game who want to see it healthy again.

He just happens to be an influential media personality who a lot of people cant cop.

The more disgruntled people who jump on the bandwagon to shake up the powers to be with a view to improving the state of Australian rugby, the better.

Yeah but he's been disillusioned with Australian rugby since he was sacked.
The bloke is only ever in anything for himself it just takes time to see his angle. He defended NSW pollies who are now in gaol, and bullied Baird into sacking Latham and emasculating ICAC because his favoured mates got pummelled.
Says what he likes about anyone but sues for defamation.
If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

 

[Twoilms]

Yeah but he's been disillusioned with Australian rugby since he was sacked.
The bloke is only ever in anything for himself it just takes time to see his angle. He defended NSW pollies who are now in gaol, and bullied Baird into sacking Latham and emasculating ICAC because his favoured mates got pummelled.
Says what he likes about anyone but sues for defamation.
If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

The man is, and i say this without intending to exaggerate, one of the worst human beings to currently reside in Australia.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I believe excess will be used on grassroots.

In this case I think grassroots is actually 2 words: grass roots.
and its a reference to another way the ARU has thought of to fuck its supporters over

 

[swingpass]

Own the Force (Western Force Owners Ltd) have no claim to anything. They are raising money on the hope that they can then acquire the licence. There is no guarantee that it will be able to happen..

quite, there is no guarantee the ARU will sell it back to them.

 

[BLR]

quite, there is no guarantee the ARU will sell it back to them.

Can you imagine that, we match the price and they refuse to give it back after all they have been pulling.

 

[swingpass]

from what's been said by Clyne and Pulver, and the Force head honchos, in the last couple of days, the decision will be based on the least worst financial scenario, ie what will cost the ARU the lesser amount, being sued by the Force and it seems that will not result in money, just the injunction to stop the ARU taking the Force out of Super Rugby, or being sued by Imperium, which will actually cost real dollars.

The only hope for the Force, and it is a very real hope, is that Cox has had enough, may cut his losses and will take some money and run.

In theory, i suppose, if the Force raise sufficient capital, they may be able to buy out all ARU involvement, run the program themselves, thereby taking away the expense from the ARU, who could dump the Rebels and only have to fund three franchises.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I assume the agreement with RugbyWA was for the IP only . Anyone know for sure?

Think they are seperate issues Stoff. RWA sold the Force IP to the ARU. The ARU own that now.

The alliance agreement is that the ARU will fund and operate a professional team from Perth. RWA still hold the Super rugby licence but have an agreement that the operations will be run by the ARU and players, coaches and other staff of the pro team will be employed by the ARU. The Force's liabilities were also taken on by the ARU

For what it's worth the 2015 RWA annual report only says this agreement is in place from Aug 2016 - doesn't give an end date or duration