Where to for Super Rugby?

[WorkingClassRugger]

Apart from being annoyed at this development I have to say it's compounded from the snippets I've read with Steve Tew detailing further possible tweaks to the format come 2020.

Bloody ridiculous to think we'll go through another restructure so soon.

The ARU memtioned directing the money back to grassroots Rugby. If we are going to see yet another restructure beyond 2020 I say, how about any monies saved are directed toward promoting the ever living crap out of the NRC as a means of developing an exot strategy. Look to really build the audience and then take it to market.

 

[Melchior]

I think Tew was speaking from a SANZAAR point of view with the comment to the Japanese.

There's really not going to be much less travel with this new deal for nz teams. They'll play 8 out of conference games instead of currently 9 out of conference games. And one of those 4 'Australian' conference games for NZ teams will be in Japan in alternate years.

I think the point is the competition was lacking integrity and was overly complex. Let's take last year for example. The Brumbies got a home final but got bugger all people to it, I think a large part of that was people could see that the Brumbies were not playing a level befitting a home final. They'd just been pumped by 40 points in Auckland by the bottom of the NZ Conference Blues 2 weeks earlier. Similarly the Stormers had not played an NZ team all season but got a home final and then got pumped 61-20 by the Chiefs in the quarter final.

he's a kiwi in Kiwi land and NZ member of SANZAAR and asked by a local rag for his view and impact going forward. This is separate from the media that SANZAAR has released so fare to say it would have an NZ slant.

His point that the competition is lacking integrity is, I think, one that he, as NZ's rep has taken to SANZAAR, which is a large reason for these changes. But, in the end, good luck to them if they can get what they want. The ARU are clearly without a clue when they sit down at the SANZAAR table.

 

[Rebels3]

NTT ^^^^^ man that is a little unfair (I do understand your reasoning), I hope each franchise supports each other here - in war, in a game, your team mates help out.

In no way am i having a crack at you - don't sweat it, we can all point fingers - NSW has the biggest player base in the country and yet we are struggling to win a game, do we deserve our position in the 5.

Who has let us down here is the ARU - that simple, they have taken their eyes off where they need to be, and yeah I'm disappointed in them and hold them accountable to a certain degree.

Agreed the situation isn't the Rebels or the Forces doing, it complete mismanagement of the overlooking entities and their petty agenda's at both national, state and club lands. There is no reason why Australia couldn't and shouldn't be able to sustain 5 professional teams. The problem is we can't atm because of gross mismanagement and a fundamental breakdown in moving our ideals and objective from a bye gone era to the professional one

 

[Melchior]

No, they are the most watched games outside of the Aus derbies in Australia.

Of course they are. Because:

1. They are not played at 3 or 4 in the morning like the SA matches.
2. The large ex pat NZ and islander communities here in Australia.

This doesn't equate to NZ bringing more money into the till though. If people are watching this in AUS then they are added to Foxtel's kitty.

Which is why, if you believe Clyne at today's presser, the ARU talked to the NZRU about a trans-tasman comp, which NZ stuck a dagger into. it seems NZ would still prefer the current mess because of access to funding whilst simultaneously bemoaning the quality of the product.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

"SA Rugby will now begin internal consultations to identify its four entrants to the 2018 competition after SANZAAR’s news on the future of Super Rugby.

"The newly-established Franchise Rugby Committee (made up of representatives of all six teams) will meet on Tuesday to finalise the criteria for selection. Their recommendation will go to the Executive Council. Once that recommendation is agreed it will need to be approved by the General Council of SA Rugby."

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/june-decision-date-for-sa-rugby/

So two of the Six turkeys get to vote for an early Christmas. What could possibly go wrong? Or are they hoping SANZAAR takes the hint & does it for them?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I thought our process was shithouse, but I feel just as much for our Saffer cousins right now. Slow death anyone?

 

[KiwiM]

it seems NZ would still prefer the current mess because of access to funding whilst simultaneously bemoaning the quality of the product.

NZ's position would be that next year's Super 15 format would be more competitive and more financially viable than a Trans-Tasman competition.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

So the question I have is: we get to 2020 and then what? I guess there is a chance that the four Aussie teams will be stronger and we'll be better off on and off the paddock. I doubt it, but let's say we are. There is just as big a chance that we're no better off at all and we may decide to cut and run.

If I were the ARU board I'd be putting together a comprehensive Plan B that leaves open the possibility of us going it alone. In the interim years we have the opportunity to strengthen the NRC and really promote it. I'd rather us pour money into the club comp and NRC over anything else at the moment, because with that we at least have the chance to build something sustainable for the future. I have this sinking feeling that Super Rugby is going to fall apart and we'd better not have all of our eggs in that particular basket.

 

[Highlander35]

https://melbournerebels.com/2017/04/10/record-growth-for-victorian-rugby/

Propaganda in full swing. Pretty good propaganda as well TBH.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Of course they are. Because:

1. They are not played at 3 or 4 in the morning like the SA matches.
2. The large ex pat NZ and islander communities here in Australia.

This doesn't equate to NZ bringing more money into the till though. If people are watching this in AUS then they are added to Foxtel's kitty.

Which is why, if you believe Clyne at today's presser, the ARU talked to the NZRU about a trans-tasman comp, which NZ stuck a dagger into. it seems NZ would still prefer the current mess because of access to funding whilst simultaneously bemoaning the quality of the product.

Never said that they equated to more money.

 

[chibimatty]

I thought our process was shithouse, but I feel just as much for our Saffer cousins right now. Slow death anyone?

Yeah, their problems are certainly much more than rugby.

Seems that politics may get in the way again, I am reading talk that the Kings may stay in, meaning that the two Afrikaner Highveld teams, the Cheetahs and (would you believe) the Bulls may be the ones to go.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So the question I have is: we get to 2020 and then what? I guess there is a chance that the four Aussie teams will be stronger and we'll be better off on and off the paddock. I doubt it, but let's say we are. There is just as big a chance that we're no better off at all and we may decide to cut and run.

If I were the ARU board I'd be putting together a comprehensive Plan B that leaves open the possibility of us going it alone. In the interim years we have the opportunity to strengthen the NRC and really promote it. I'd rather us pour money into the club comp and NRC over anything else at the moment, because with that we at least have the chance to build something sustainable for the future. I have this sinking feeling that Super Rugby is going to fall apart and we'd better not have all of our eggs in that particular basket.

SANZAAR has become quite the toxic relationship that makes no sense whatsoever in maintaining such close ties to in terms of anything below TRC level. We need to start setting up our exit strategy for post 2020. Talk to the broadcaster(s) and work toward developing a model that works for us.

Take the savings from cutting a franchise and 1) ensure that franchise maintains an NRC presence and 2) heavily promote the NRC. Work toward building brand awareness and visibility across the board. Even look at re-assessing its structure somewhat. Ensure that the Rising, Spirit, Rams and Vikings are maintained and then open up another 8 places for clubs to bod providing they meet critieria. Re-launch it in 2021 as a stand alone 22 round competition.

 

[Twoilms]

Yeah, their problems are certainly much more than rugby.

Seems that politics may get in the way again, I am reading talk that the Kings may stay in, meaning that the two Afrikaner Highveld teams, the Cheetahs and (would you believe) the Bulls may be the ones to go.

The Bulls over the Kings would be a travesty.

 

[swingpass]

The Bulls over the Kings would be a travesty.

as would the the Rebels over the Force, the Force over the Rebels and either of them over the Brumbies. the whole thing is totally tragic and despite all the logic behind a 4 team Australian contingent, i'm most pissed about how little the ARU seems to have done to prevent this.

 

[chibimatty]

Well to be honest, if the someone like the Bulls can be cut, then seriously, fuck the whole league.

 

[moa999]

Seems that politics may get in the way again, I am reading talk that the Kings may stay in, meaning that the two Afrikaner Highveld teams, the Cheetahs and (would you believe) the Bulls may be the ones to go.

And watch the Afrikaner members backpedal furiously on the decision to cut two teams. I suspect there is more to play in SA.

 

[Rebels3]

Well to be honest, if the someone like the Bulls can be cut, then seriously, fuck the whole league.

Surely, surely the Bulls can't get cut. That'd be like us cutting the Brumbies, perhaps even worse

 

[NTT]

Thanks mate. Was anything I said incorrect?

If people are going to blow the 'we develop players' trumpet it's got to be substantiated.


Doubtful, but either way the larger point stands.

The point about Victoria being more successful at Under 18s and Under 20s level.
Firstly there is no U/18s competition, so thats a lie and 2 or 3 more wins in a 2 year old Under 20s comp is hardly anything that can be labeled a trend of success.
Also 2 of our 3 Aus under 20s this year are WA born. Our other rep, much like the majority of The Rebels u/20s squad, is from interstate.
If were picking on technicalities of where players are born vs where they were developed then Perth still wins. The majority of the homegrown players we are claiming spent more than 4 years playing in WA pathways. This is on top of the 20 plus players now interstate or overseas. Even one of your own is from Perth. Cruz Ah-Nau ring a bell?

Seeing as your larger point was the Rebels have produced equal levels of talent, there is no evidence to support this. The numbers still remain - Rebels have 2 players developed in Melbourne. Naivalu and Fereti Sa'ga. The Force have 11 in their current squad, 2 in the Brumbies, 2 in Qld and one in Melbourne.
The Rebels have had less time to produce players. Yes correct but 2 in 7 years vs 16 in 11 years points to Melbourne having 4 players in 14 years at current pace. At our current pace we will have 32 players of super rugby standard in another 11 years. That shows our growth is exponentially better the Melbournes.

But i truly suspect your true larger point is based on your allegiance to Melbourne not on the figures that explain what is happening.

 

[NTT]

Amirite try not engage in the petty mudslinging going around, what you put was a perfectly reasonable post which many are simply refusing to acknowledge. Unfortunately from both sides people are blinded through passion which means they lose the ability to look at things from both perspectives. The thing is both teams, give or take, haven't got much between them when it comes to finances, pathways, crowds, high end performance, etc. There is a lot of informative opinions going around without much if any substance to the argument other than 'just cause'. For every superior Rebels u20s team, there is a superior WA junior gold cup team. For every high end Force result in 2017, there is a high end Rebels result in 2016/2015. For every financial dollars committed to the Rebels, there is considerably more expenses for the Force, eg. travelling to and from Perth, no direct flights to Japan and Argentina, etc, team ahving to be accommodated and leave for venue a day earlier. For every Sean McMahon, Sefa Naivalu, Toby Smith, James Hansen and Reece Hodge there is a DHP, Chance Peni, Jonno Lance, Ben McCalman and Ryan Louwren's. People just don't want to critically analyse the situation, they just want to critically comment.

Hopefully whoever is selected as the fortunate party to progress their journey, they prosper in the future for the sake of Rugby moving forward. Its just the passion of some that is blinding

I acknowledged it. Then i proved he was wrong in his assumptions.

Just as you are wrong to assume travelling to and from Perth is considerably more expensive than Melbourne. From New Zealand yes, from South Africa no. The ARU doesn't pay for travel. SANZAAR does. If travel costs were such a significant factor then surely Argentina is the team culled. Having South African teams travel across Australia then NZ then onto Japan would have also influenced travel costs if that was what this decision is based on.
The statement that Perth adds considerable costs is wrong. The ARU losing $20 million propping up Melbourne proves that is wrong. The fact Imperium group are losing $2 million this year to prop it up proves you are wrong about how much more Perth costs then Melbourne. Accommodation costs are covered by SANZAAR, not the ARU. Housing players in each state is covered by the players with assistance from the State unions, not the ARU. Again a misleading statement.

You want a truth based discussion but spread mistruths.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I really hope that this discussion doesn't turn into an interstate bashing exercise. None of us like that this is happening.

I certainly won't be getting stuck into the Rebels as I would have rather that all of us stayed.