What is GRASSROOTS?

[Dave Beat]

With the recent announcement of rugby's new sponsor BMW - and its involvement in grass roots rugby, what is grass roots rugby to you?
Is it mini's rugby,
Is it junior rugby,
Is it club rugby,
Is it Private High School rugby,
Fantastic work picking up a sponsor like BMW, so how could this be best used to develop our game from the grass roots?

For me, it is club rugby growing mini's rugby right through to the colts.
Making club rugby a brand, other codes are playing night games that young families find it hard to attend.
Amp up club rugby strategically, a great arvo of sport, and ensure it hits the kids.

 

[kiap]

I'd say all of those ... but premier club rugby is more in a category between "grass roots" and pro.

Premier, the elite pathway programs, and NRC are perhaps in a class of their own.

And I hear some of the private school comps are now looking at introducing a salary cap. In which case lump them in that category too.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Grass roots ends below the semi-pro level for me.

If you want to pay your players it has to be from a sustainable source, and not ARU arranged sponsorship dollars that may disappear.

Paying coaches etc is a different matter entirely and should be encouraged

 

[Dave Beat]

I see grass roots as Saturday Club rugby, and the more bodies playing the better. How to strategically invest in that to see the numbers grow will benefit our game.

Grass roots ends below the semi-pro level for me.

But it is these Semi-Pro that the kids can follow, I'm not suggesting sponsorship pays them - but what happens if they were paid to work with kids and interact at camps and schools.

If you want to pay your players it has to be from a sustainable source, and not ARU arranged sponsorship dollars that may disappear.

Spot on.
But clubs do allot for our game, have coaches, medical, and other financial commitments that would possibly fall under grant more than sponsorship.

When I'm driving to Saturday morning sport, i want to see more kids playing union than league on the frosty fields - these are our real Grass Roots.
To achieve this I see premier clubs needing to play a major role and become a brand so kids have a pathway and keep sustained the growth.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't understand how trying to make what should ostensibly be the highest amateur level of the game more professional with money sourced from above is ever going to be a solution.

Aside from a couple of clubs (primarily your club), clubs have bankrupted themselves over the years through trying to be more professional than they have the means to be. They have been ever reliant on grants to keep them running and when the professional side of the game can't provide that, things go pear-shaped.

The clubs do need to play a substantial role in junior rugby but that will always be predominantly done by volunteers. Arguably a better result could be achieved if there were absolutely no player payments and instead those funds were spent on coaches and facilities etc.

 

[TOCC]

Player payments are an arms race, few clubs can afford to do it but all will at least attempt, with many bankrupting themselves in the process.

Furthermore, some of the players that are receipt of player payments from amateur clubs are already signed to contracts with super rugby clubs. It contributes nothing to Australian rugby as these players are already professionally, essentially they are getting paid twice for doing the one job.



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[Dave Beat]

About grass roots guys, not player payments.
TOCC, not sure way, i cant send you PM??

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes, the thread is about grass roots but wanting the professional part of the game to put more money into club rugby seems like a backwards way of funding grass roots. Invariably too much of the money going into club rugby gets spent on player payments making it more professional and less grass roots.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I see grass roots as Saturday Club rugby, and the more bodies playing the better. How to strategically invest in that to see the numbers grow will benefit our game.



But it is these Semi-Pro that the kids can follow, I'm not suggesting sponsorship pays them - but what happens if they were paid to work with kids and interact at camps and schools.



Spot on.
But clubs do allot for our game, have coaches, medical, and other financial commitments that would possibly fall under grant more than sponsorship.

When I'm driving to Saturday morning sport, i want to see more kids playing union than league on the frosty fields - these are our real Grass Roots.
To achieve this I see premier clubs needing to play a major role and become a brand so kids have a pathway and keep sustained the growth.

Should probably be declaring your interest here Dave!

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, especially paying people (essentially development officers) to go to schools etc.

I think the fundamental difference is I see a lot more value in investing that money away from "Eastern Sydney" where we already do a pretty good job of turning kids into Wallabies.

I'd much rather see (say) 15 full time d.o's distributed around the country with associated support ($2m) than giving premier clubs more dollars. They just ain't grass roots - they are most of the way up the blade. They already have semi respectable budgets.

 

[RugbyReg]

Yes, the thread is about grass roots but wanting the professional part of the game to put more money into club rugby seems like a backwards way of funding grass roots. Invariably too much of the money going into club rugby gets spent on player payments making it more professional and less grass roots.

Although the cricketer's have an interesting approach to it:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/609892cc5160b94cb8de4776a32f690c

 

[Braveheart81]

Although the cricketer's have an interesting approach to it:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/609892cc5160b94cb8de4776a32f690c

It's a great idea when there's money to do it. Part of the problem in Australian rugby is that it's a much smaller pie to be split and the overseas pie being offered to those players is forever increasing.

If the Wallabies got together and decided they'd contribute 5% of their income to junior rugby that would be awesome. I doubt it will happen though.

What this isn't is the professional cricketers deciding that they wanted to contribute a chunk of money to increase player payments to first grade players around the country which is the reality when there is more money available in club rugby.

 

[Dave Beat]

Should probably be declaring your interest here Dave!

I dont think my interest is a secret
Grow Grass roots.
And I support Manly.

I am not saying clubs should get cash to support players - I dont agree with that.

Instead of NABAuskick it should be BMWwannabeawallaby.

Due to personel, branding, and engagement i think the clubs doing it as it provides benefits, an example as to why;
Would you take an U6, U7, U8 out to SFS, or Homebush to watch a night time Super, NRL, or AFL game - I wouldn't.
If we engage these ages and families rugby and afternoon club rugby, the clubs financial benefit is gate, and catering.

This could be replicated in each state very easily, as each state has a premier club comp sitting under there NRC team. And if each of these clubs was sanctioned with the duty of growing grass roots our code would benifit.

 

[Dave Beat]

And a bit more given the contribution clubs have made to rugby over the years, often with the smell of an oily rag and allot of volunteers = shit they should get financials up support.

Some one said some where so they can piss it up against the wall, i don't think it should be missed that not so long ago we were reading about the poor state of the ARU financial affairs.

It costs money to run a club well, I haven't advocated player payments.

Go back 20 years before our game was professional, rugby was great back then as well, and it had great values.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

For me grassroots is the village clubs, subbies and schools. I know others may argue the grade clubs are but the majoroty of the games base exist outside them. If we want the game to flourish we need more people playing the game at the levels above.

 

[dru]

Grade clubs stand aside in this context of grass roots. Funding to assist grassroots growth should be directed to the amateur part of the game. Schools (especially schools without existing strength in funding) and age based clubs, U19, U20, subbies.

To this end, I agree with Pulver, not Dwyer, and I'm glad Pulver raised his voice and made things quite clear:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/club-rugby/bob-dwyer-slams-aru-boss-bill-pulver-for-neglecting-sydney-club-rugby-20160212-gmshre.html

Funding should also be toward rugby centres of excellence and I have no problem with (for instance) the Shute Shield making use of that. But no direct funding from the ARU.

 

[Dave Beat]

Interesting.
Started this thread in hope of ideas as well.

• We are all agreeing Grass Roots is Junior rugby.
• And people have debated about whether Premier Rugby is Grass Roots or not.

I agree juniors, I also say all Premier Rugby Comps are as well and will say to bloody right they should receive grants, they are our pathway to higher honors - even more so for the parents who cant afford Private Schools.

But
BUT.

Grants for work and results.
Myrugby captures the data and can provide a wealth of information.
Each geographic area is different and there fore comes with mixed forces.
Lets say

• Premier Club needs to grow the junior data base by % = $grant.
• Retention maybe another one based on myrugby data.
• Getting the public high school comps back up and running.
• Juniors playing curtain raisers.

So Premier Cubs benefit through growth of junior, and they are also investing in their future.
It is all about engagement at all levels.
If they are doing things right for the game - to dam right they should receive grants.

PS - I haven't seen ARU's grass roots plans, goals, so in no way is the above referencing them.

With all states having a Premier Comp in place looking to financially reward the Clubs for taking rugby out there to what we all seem to agree is the grass roots.

 

[kiap]

Premier Rugby Comps are as well and will say to bloody right they should receive grants

How much in grants are you wanting, Dave?

 

[Dave Beat]

How much in grants are you wanting, Dave?

$ensability.00 amount.

not

$tupid.00 amount.

It would have to be a sensible business plan, and each geographic area may have a different approach.

• Growing the number of kids playing - I'm sure I've read somewhere the ARU also financially benefits through registration (that is called reinvestment)- a question.
• It also grows the supporter base (also reinvestment) - I'm sure this will also provide financial upside.
• I'm sure myrugby could provide us with all the stats to assist with audited measurement.

So yes they should be paid for executing what we all agree needs the attention.

 

[kiap]

$ensability.00 amount.

not

$tupid.00 amount.

It would have to be a sensible business plan, and each geographic area may have a different approach.

• Growing the number of kids playing - I'm sure I've read somewhere the ARU also financial benefits through registration - a question.
• It also grows the supporter bas - I'm sure this will also provide financial upside.
• I'm sure myrugby could provide us with all the stats to assist with audited measurement.

So yes they should be paid for executing what we all agree needs the attention.

Right. Okay, how much is an average Shute club spending on those things now?

 

[Dave Beat]

Right. Okay, how much is an average Shute club spending on those things now?

I'm not sure if there was a till on it recording that expenditure.

Or a bundy clock accounting for the time spent on this area.