Western Force 2020

[Rugbynutter39]

Some interesting insights into the way forward from new GRR CEO, Mark Evans, in his recent radio interview on the Global Rapid Rugby thread (#1043) - particularly referencing learnings from elsewhere..

I think it's very important to ensure that it's not just a walk in the park for the Western Force - particularly during the initial stages of GRR. Would expect to see more marque players with the teams being developed in the new/growth areas.

The Western Force may already have their marque player in Thrush.

Wrt to salaries I would expect payments to WF players to be <Super Rugby player payments due to the reduced workload (limited GRR + NRC only). In the past WF players were encouraged to play in Japan/ITM etc.
Would expect this to change with first home/away season of GRR + NRC in 2020.

Who knows what will happen beyond 2020 but the rumours are that currently RA has no $$s for the NRC beyond 2020 and Foxtel is showing little interest in providing the same level of funding as for 2019 & 2020.

Like what new grr ceo had to say in radio interview and made lot of sense about not signing heap of expensive marquees too early until got product etc right and used example of Toronto super league side signing of sbw in that they had been around 4 years before did this. Baby steps, learn and grow.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Some interesting insights into the way forward from new GRR CEO, Mark Evans, in his recent radio interview on the Global Rapid Rugby thread (#1043) - particularly referencing learnings from elsewhere..

I think it's very important to ensure that it's not just a walk in the park for the Western Force - particularly during the initial stages of GRR. Would expect to see more marque players with the teams being developed in the new/growth areas.

The Western Force may already have their marque player in Thrush.

Wrt to salaries I would expect payments to WF players to be <Super Rugby player payments due to the reduced workload (limited GRR + NRC only). In the past WF players were encouraged to play in Japan/ITM etc.
Would expect this to change with first home/away season of GRR + NRC in 2020.

Who knows what will happen beyond 2020 but the rumours are that currently RA has no $$s for the NRC beyond 2020 and Foxtel is showing little interest in providing the same level of funding as for 2019 & 2020.

With fox sports are pressure to make major cuts in sports line up / spend I think you can take it as a given RA going to have to find alternative nrc funding/ model - I would be surprised if RA and GRR/WF were not in discussions of what a joint grr/revamped nrc model could look like

 

[ForceFan]

I would be surprised if RA and GRR/WF were not in discussions of what a joint grr/revamped nrc model could look like

I would be surprised if RA and GRR/WF were in discussions of what a joint GRR/revamped NRC model could look like.

GRR is all about developing and maintaining privately owned, professional teams and growing the game in the Asia/Pacific region and developing TV coverage in the region which should eventually give rise to $$s from broadcast rights.

As such it has little in common with the NRC which has been for amateur club players and the broader playing groups from Oz Super Rugby franchises. Currently there appears to be no $$s available to pay for the NRC.

There has been little/no mention of Minderoo/Forrest sponsoring the NRC in fact at the NRC Final Forrest's comments were totally the opposite in still talking about the travesty of dumping the WF from Super Rugby and general lack of interest by RA in doing anything for the game in WA.

 

[Adam84]

Frosty relations might make it surprising. RA won’t want a merger if Forrest wishes to retain control, Forrest won’t want a merger if he is to lose control.

However, it would be silly of both parties not to at least consider a merger of sorts, NRC has RA and World Rugby backing in the form of the Fijian Drua. GRR has money backing it, and a dedicated WA fan base.

Rugby union fans are a finite resource, they’re limited in supply and both parties would be wary of cannibalising and directly competing with each other’s fan base.

 

[hoggy]

Frosty relations might make it surprising. RA won’t want a merger if Forrest wishes to retain control, Forrest won’t want a merger if he is to lose control.

However, it would be silly of both parties not to at least consider a merger of sorts, NRC has RA and World Rugby backing in the form of the Fijian Drua. GRR has money backing it, and a dedicated WA fan base.

Rugby union fans are a finite resource, they’re limited in supply and both parties would be wary of cannibalising and directly competing with each other’s fan base.

I think in a nutshell you've highlighted the major issue facing the code here, money & control, and probably the reason why the game has stagnated so much over the last 10/15 years, the RA want the money but still retain control.

Problem is you simply can't have it both ways, look at Super rugby, why has arguably the highest quality rugby competition in the world pretty much floundered to an extent that its very existence is now a toss of the coin. its failure to evolve and meet market place demands is the reason. But why didn't it evolve. because that required change by vested interests.

As has been pointed out, regardless of the state of the game in this country, those same people (players and administrators) who have always benefited form the system, and are still benefiting.

So you can see why Forrest would be reluctant, why should he finance something he has little control over to ensure that it can change and adjust to survive. Why finance someone else's lifestyle for little reward.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think in a nutshell you've highlighted the major issue facing the code here, money & control, and probably the reason why the game has stagnated so much over the last 10/15 years, the RA want the money but still retain control.

Problem is you simply can't have it both ways, look at Super rugby, why has arguably the highest quality rugby competition in the world pretty much floundered to an extent that its very existence is now a toss of the coin. its failure to evolve and meet market place demands is the reason. But why didn't it evolve. because that required change by vested interests.

As has been pointed out, regardless of the state of the game in this country, those same people (players and administrators) who have always benefited form the system, and are still benefiting.

So you can see why Forrest would be reluctant, why should he finance something he has little control over to ensure that it can change and adjust to survive. Why finance someone else's lifestyle for little reward.

Yep and absolutely RA needs to grow up and be prepared to cede some control in return for much needed money. Yes I know unlikely to see twiggy and RA collaboration on new joint competition which might not be in RA’s interests of maintaining control but hard how would not be interests of oz rugby and us long suffering fans

 

[ForceFan]

...... but hard how would not be interests of oz rugby and us long suffering fans

The dumping of the Western Force certainly was NOT in the interests of OZ rugby and us long suffering (WA) fans.

Nobody should be presumptuous enough to try and tell Andrew Forrest/Minderoo how to spend HIS $$s.
WA fans are very pleased that he's a local lad........who wants to maintain a development pathway for WA rugby players.

He offered >$50 million to RA which was rejected.
That's NOT Andrew Forrest's problem.
The long suffering fans (on the East Coast) should stand up and face the real problem - the RA Board and senior executive.
(You can probably add Q Rugby, NSW Rugby and Vic Rugby to that group.......)
(Quite like the ACT crew. Maybe they could join GRR??)

The long suffering (WA) fans are doing quite well thank you.
Will be even better once the GRR teams and fixture are announced (hopefully Friday).

Asia and Pacific international games in 2019: Hong King, Singapore, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga and Japan National side pre RWC. Really enjoyed the chance to travel pre-RWC.
NRC champs in 2019
GRR with 6 teams in 2020.
Growth in GRR from 2021 and beyond.

GRR doing OK with relationships with World Rugby, Asia Rugby, Japan Rugby, NZ Rugby, SA Rugby, HK Rugby, Fiji Rugby, Samoa Rugby, Malaysia Rugby, China Rugby (??), Tonga Rugby, US Rugby, etc, etc.
Which major participant from the Asia/Pacific region is missing from this group?

Best of luck East Coast........you deserve a lot better., but I doubt if RA is capable of delivering.

 

[andrewM]

I can’t see GRR and NRC merging – they are two separate beasts with completely different objectives. I could certainly see a relationship between Super Rugby and GRR evolving in the future as the quality of GRR improves – a promotion/relegation concept does come to mind.

This of course relies 100% on Forrest supporting such a move which I doubt he is entertaining at the moment – I suspect that not only does Forrest not want to relinquish control, but he has a point to prove. We all know that the Clyne and Pulver did backroom deals to transfer the Rebels licence back to the VRU and that Clyne (in)famously said that Forrest’s offer of $50 mill came ‘too late in the piece’. Given the fact that the Rebels’ haven’t published any financials for the past two seasons, and it was suggested that they couldn’t afford to host a home final this year, we can safely assume that the Rebels are still in poor financial shape. I’m sure Forrest wants to make sure the RA go through more pain which hopefully results in Clyne being ousted in the process before he becomes open to any offers.

RA’s decision to retain the Rebels was built on a house of sticks and Twiggy I’m sure is out to remind them of that.

And yes, if that is his plan, I fully support it.

 

[ForceFan]

Brynard buys into bright future
November 21, 2019

Barnstorming backrower Brynard Stander is the latest player to re-sign with the Force for the inaugural Global Rapid Rugby season.
The powerful Number 8 was a crucial part of this year’s Rapid Rugby Asia and Pacific Showcases and the NRC title and wants to be part of continued success in 2020.

Read more.............

 

[ForceFan]

Still waiting on announcements regarding:

Forwards Coach - Van Humphries??
Attack Coach - Steve Meehan??

Re-signing of Jeremy Thrush and Markus Vanzati??

Is there a spot for CTM??

New additions as we'll need more than just a 30 man squad and need some additional talent across the Backs.

 

[ForceFan]

Great to have some silver-backs still in the squad.
7 years at the WF for Heath Tessman......with KBomb creating havoc in the background.

 

[ForceFan]

Tim Sampson and Ian Prior with some insights into preparation for the 2020 GRR season ahead.

Confirmation that the Final will be in Perth at the Force Field.

 

[ForceFan]

Western Force hand three young local players first full-time professional contracts ahead of next - year’s $1million Global Rapid Rugby competition

Nick Taylor - West Australian - 19 Dec 2019

Western Force have handed three young local players their first full-time professional contracts ahead of next year’s $1million Global Rapid Rugby competition.
Wests-Scarborough prop Dom Hardman, 22, UWA scrum-half Rory O’Sullivan, 21, and Wanneroo back Grason Makara, 19, who graduated through RugbyWA’s senior academy, were all members of the Force’s National Rugby Championship winning squad.
Force coach Tim Sampson said their ascent into the Force squad was a huge win for WA rugby.

“Dom, Rory and Grason are quality local talent, players we have kept an eye on throughout the club competition and through our RugbyWA pathways,” Sampson said.
“It shows the quality coming through club rugby.”

https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-...global-rapid-rugby-competition-ng-b881416239z

 

[kiap]

Hardman showed what he could do in the NRC.

O’Sullivan and Makara also good prospects.

 

[ForceFan]

Great to have the lads back on the training track after the EOY break.
Looking very clipped Ian Prior.

 

[ForceFan]

Very pleasing to see.....go well WA - based lads.

Six Western Force and RugbyWA Senior Academy players have been called up for the Junior Wallabies camp taking place at the Australian Institute of Sports.

Byron Ralston, Grason Makara, Jackson Pugh, Ollie Callan, Reece Anapu and Alex Masibaka have all been earmarked to attend the camp which will identify the next generation of Australian rugby talent heading into the 2020 World Rugby under-20 Championship held in Italy.

Read more:
https://wa.rugby/news/2020/01/10/si...jLCifMNkehoqVJt9Cxva-C-PcKOpuxnp2Ny9vQvm2Zm78

Addition: Noteworthy that only a single player from Rebels/Victoria in this initial training squad.

 

[ForceFan]

Still 6 weeks until the first game of 2020.

 

[7137]

He offered >$50 million to RA which was rejected....

If your car is busted, and I offer you money but tell you to spend it on a new kitchen. It’s not going to get your car fixed. Is it?

 

[dru]

If your car is busted, and I offer you money but tell you to spend it on a new kitchen. It’s not going to get your car fixed. Is it?

Sure, doesnt fit here though. RA claimed they didn't have the cash to hold a fifth franchise. Twiggy offered the cash. The "No" response a clear indicator that more was going on at RA who held little honesty in their narrative with the rugby public. A closer ananolgy is:

My car is busted, you offer me money to fix it but you instruct me that I must spend it on a new kitchen. You tell to get stuffed. Which is understandable.

 

[Forceright]

Western Force player poaching for Global Rapid Rugby ‘can’t be bad’, according to Scott Johnson
Nick Taylor
The West Australian
Friday, 31 January 2020 4:44PM


Rugby Australia director of rugby Scott Johnson is happy to see Western Force players poached by Super Rugby clubs.
Johnson said Global Rapid Rugby has an important role to play in Australian rugby and was not surprised how quickly the Force re-invented itself after being controversially axed ahead of the Melbourne Rebels.
“At the moment there is not a place for the Force in Super Rugby, we are seeing players transferring into Super Rugby and it’s important that we keep relationships with them,” Johnson said.
“The west has certainly got on the front foot.
“Anything that encourages growth and is done properly can’t be bad for the sport.”
Force players are eligible for the Wallabies but the club faces a challenge holding onto them.
Six Force players were lost to Super clubs and overseas at the end of last GRR Showcase Series. The Rebels have two of them among 12 ex-Force players in their squad for today’s Super clash with the Sunwolves.
Johnson was in Perth with former Force captain and Wallaby Nathan Sharpe for the announcement that Optus Stadium would host Wallabies Tests against the Springboks and All Blacks in the next two years.
“It’s no secret that Australian rugby is going through a tough time and to see the Force creating their own ecosystem and building something that contributes to Australian ruby is a real positive,” Sharpe said.
“The landscape is changing pretty quickly in Australia. The broadcast deal is up in the air.”
GRR is the brainchild of mining magnate Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest, who was angered when RA axed axing the Force and rejected his $70 million offer to keep the club alive.
The Force will play China Lions, Malaysian Valke, Fijian Latui, Manuma Samoa and Hong-King’s South China Tigers in the $1m GRR debut season that kicks off next month.”


Seriously.... RA suffer from ‘foot in mouth’ disease! Making absolutely stupid comments like this do nothing but instigate even more angst from Force fans. At a point in time that Super Rugby is facing death throes and should be trying to repair the damage done to WA and the Force, Scott comes out with a blooper like this. At least he announces the Force are eligible for Wallabies, but why the hell they need to join another Super Rugby franchise just to get a nod! RA have provided pretty much no support the past few years, in fact the opposite, and yet the condescending attitude that they’re happy to poach WA coached players like vultures is like poking a wasps nest.
I’ll save this little treasure of Scott’s and wait for when the roles get reversed with Super Rugby players lining up to join the Force. We’ll see what for the narrative will be then.