Western Force 2017

[neilc]

Interesting as you say. Seems like the ARU are holding the whip hand for the coaches role at both the Reds and Force. I think on his WC results Lancaster is not preferred over Blackadder and if the scenario evolved whereby Blackadder took the reins at the Reds and Lancaster at the Force, I think this would reinforce the view in the west that the ARU thinks they are second best.

Not sure if there are any other higher profile coaches available though, except for Meyer who recently put his hand up for the Force. I would assume the ARU would be in serious talks with him right now.

Meyer would have to be considered a pretty decent applicant wouldn't he? He has coached at Super Rugby level so understands the preparation and travel side of it - someone like Lancaster would have to get used to all that, and the Force have a lot of travel. Lancaster did seem to get on with players, I don't know much about him aside from his England role - what's his track record in player development like?

 

[dru]

No chance they will hire two foreign coaches leaving just two Aussie coaches in charge of Super Rugby teams.

The ARU don't hold the whip hand in QLD

I dont see why they wouldnt take two foreigners if two foreign coaches are the best. But its for the selection teams to work that out.

Reg, if my post implied the ARU has the whip hand in Qld it wasnt my intention. I'm really liking the selection process so far, I'd just like to have confidence in the Force process as well. I wonder how the dual processes will work around each other though.

I suspect that Blackadder is the best of the names being bandied about. Feels like I'm not the only fan to think so. I'll be isappointed if we get a "he wasnt interested" and no-one made the attempt to pull together the benefits of being an Aussie rugby coach in front of him.

 

[MarkJ]

I suspect that Blackadder is the best of the names being bandied about.

The worry with Blackadder would be how he he'd go outside of the Crusaders' unique environment. It might go all a bit Robbie Deans

 

[dru]

The worry with Blackadder would be how he he'd go outside of the Crusaders' unique environment. It might go all a bit Robbie Deans

It's a valid point. One that would need testing.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Todd had a champion team and a team of champions, Deans the same.

Trouble is, you never really know how a new coach is going to go with the group he inherits.

Easy to judge retropectively

 

[MarkJ]

I guess the other question mark against Blackadder is that even with a champion team/team of champions, the Crusaders haven't won a title with him in charge

 

[Brumby Runner]

Could well be on track to do so this year however.

 

[Sully]

Could well be on track to do so this year however.

Had a couple of guys holding the team back last year but one retired and the other is playing for some club in france.

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[The_Brown_Hornet]

Had a couple of guys holding the team back last year but one retired and the other is playing for some club in france.

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Yeah they were rubbish those blokes. One even had a silly name like GOAT!

 

[mst]

You are correct. So why go and look in Fiji? It provides no financial return, is already being tapped by European clubs and the Force attract O/S players looking for opportunities regardless.

It well known that financially games in the Pacific nations are at your own cost, thus why either World Rugby bares the cost for development reasons (like tests etc), or NZ Rugby does it as an assistance package at their expense ( I believe Wordy rugby again may have assisted).

$3.3million to fund a Super Rugby game - answer to the question about why the Force or ARU getting involved in Fiji Rugby is a bad idea.
http://www.superxv.com/fiji-government-chipping-2-3m-chiefs-v-crusaders-clash/

 

[TOCC]

Fiji government chipping in money to host a super rugby is evidence it's a bad idea? The economic benefits of hosting a super rugby match and the exposure generated has the potential to generate a significantly greater return. Similar to the economic benefits of hostin Liverlpool FC, Manchesrer Utd etc in Australia, just on a much larger scale.

Anyway, this is apples and oranges to what was originally suggested

 

[Shaker]

Interesting team in store this week. Missing McCalman and Hodgson gives someone different a chance. Me personally, id like to see Richie Hardwick given a chance in the back row.

 

[mst]

Fiji government chipping in money to host a super rugby is evidence it's a bad idea? The economic benefits of hosting a super rugby match and the exposure generated has the potential to generate a significantly greater return. Similar to the economic benefits of hostin Liverlpool FC, Manchesrer Utd etc in Australia, just on a much larger scale.

Anyway, this is apples and oranges to what was originally suggested

Its good to see the Kiwis donate there time and play away from home to benefit of Fiji Rugby and their economy.

I wonder if it effects their memberships with games being played out of NZ as gate takings are essential for Aussie teams.

Also good the NZRU and World Rugby are happy to support the venture.

I doubt that with 5 franchises running at a loss if the ARU would be able to support other countries efforts to develop the game and players.

 

[ChargerWA]

Meyer would have to be the best candidate.

Lancaster can go drink tea out of a dirty boot as far as I'm concerned. And by all objective measures Dean's is a better coach than Blackadder so why would Blackadder go any better out of the Crusaders system?

At least Heyneke has some passion about him. I think he could really create a siege mentality around a struggling club and get them punching above their weight.

 

[Moono75]

Its the 2016 Force farewell tour, jump on board the bus....or jump under it because the teams likely to look significantly different next year player wise. Dave Wessels steps in as interim coach providing some insight into what abilities and ideas he has rugby wise and whether they were squandered by Foley during his tenure.

Need Jono Lance to pick up the form where he left off. It's a risk bringing him back for the final 3 games with nothing tangible to gain. Shake things up and give a couple of the young guys like Hardwick a run. Nothing to lose.

 

[neilc]

Criticism of Deans as Wallabies coach is ignoring the fact that coaching a team you get from all over the place having played different styles for a few weeks at a time is different to building a squad of the same players for a whole season, as Cheika is discovering. My point is that Blackadder is (allegedly) being looked at to carry on a Super Rugby role in a different location whereas Deans went from Super Rugby to a national role. So Blackadder could very well be good for the Force, players who have joined the Crusaders have seemed to fit into the culture well so perhaps he can build a similar culture in Perth.

 

[chiraag]

Interesting team in store this week. Missing McCalman and Hodgson gives someone different a chance. Me personally, id like to see Richie Hardwick given a chance in the back row.

Would've liked to see this to give the young blokes some solid super rugby experience, but unfortunately Koteka hasn't been taken on tour.

6. Hardwick
7. Koteka
8. Cottrell

 

[Scrubber2050]

How do you get the Force up ?

Everyone appreciates the need for a stronger playing group.

If any Leaguies won't to come to Union then have to sign with the Force for 3 years.
If any player wants to leave his current Australian Franchise then Force have first and second dibs on him (for 3 years), otherwise the ARU refuses to top up the players contract (for Wallaby Players)

Am sure a bit of discussion will follow

 

[mst]

How do you get the Force up ?

Everyone appreciates the need for a stronger playing group.

If any Leaguies won't to come to Union then have to sign with the Force for 3 years.
If any player wants to leave his current Australian Franchise then Force have first and second dibs on him (for 3 years), otherwise the ARU refuses to top up the players contract (for Wallaby Players)

Am sure a bit of discussion will follow

The Force and ARU financial situation has a big neon sign above it that says; MONEYBALL!!! It is essential that what ever the Force do it needs to financially sustainable in the long term and not just interim fix to fill in while there is a TV deal. So unless the foundations are laid now, big money players funded (compensated) by the ARU will just mean we will be back here again in 3 years at the end of the TV deal as the ARU money will be gone and the Force wont have built the platform it need to have be sustainable and independent; not to mention the waste of money on a dead end investment.

As for limiting player freedoms when moving - hello Europe and welcome to the 5 Aussie franchise's languishing at the bottom end of the table. The case study and example what happens when you just lump players with names in a team is the Brumbies 2011 v 2012 teams. The 2012 no names were more successful then the glamour hi price roster of 2011.

I still believe the Force, ARU and with support of the other Super Rugby franchises and Unions, need to build a "Super highway" that leads directly to the Force doorstep. The "highway" need to for the exclusive use of all U20's, NRC and academy / fringe players and designed to work as a development centre and to feed "the" Aussie Super Rugby development team. As an example, the NRC barbarian team is an indication of talent seeking opportunity.

Mix in some good experienced players and some cheap young talent looking to make a mark in the game and its a pretty competitive and financially viable option that could grow over time. It may even stop young talent looking at O/S opportunities.

One add on conversation that could be had with the Super Rugby franchises is "on loan" players; this would allow player in the Super Rugby programs (EG: EPS / development) to head over and get game time but still be aligned with a home Super Rugby franchise.

 

[Dazzling]

Meyer would have to be the best candidate.

Lancaster can go drink tea out of a dirty boot as far as I'm concerned. And by all objective measures Dean's is a better coach than Blackadder so why would Blackadder go any better out of the Crusaders system?

At least Heyneke has some passion about him. I think he could really create a siege mentality around a struggling club and get them punching above their weight.

If you want passion, Dean Ryan has just left Worcester Warriors and apparently is not going to be appointed at Bath to replace George Ford's dad.