WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
If you went down that path then why not admit the AP Dragons out of Singapore and hace an Asian conference. Could even look at only using 3 Japanese squads and look to get Hong Kong involved.
Western Force 2017
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If you went down that path then why not admit the AP Dragons out of Singapore and hace an Asian conference. Could even look at only using 3 Japanese squads and look to get Hong Kong involved.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I think amirite is suggesting allowing these teams to use their financial might to fill in the necesary gaps with imports. May work.
Interestingly enough I read an article in a British Columbia based news site called The Province which briefly discussed the Pro12 and Toulon's overtures about establishing franchises in the US and Canada. Evidently, SANZAAR are also in play but are keeping quiet.
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Dick Tooth (41)
The worrying figures are the SA ones. As the quota systems kicks in can the SA figures pick up. Also we are unaware of the international ratings which from media reports at the time indicated was the main source in the ARU increase.
Whether we like to admit it or not we live off the coat tails of SA and international ratings. The SA & International ratings fund us [which is a large part of a broader problem].
Australian ratings are up slightly and we had a poor year, the kind would allow claims of it's turning around. The cruel would argue modest increases coming off a WC year is not a good sign.
Pulver said a little way back you can't shrink too growth. The issue is we appear to as each year goes by to be little further indebted and beholding to our overseas partners [dare I say masters]
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
At the time of the articles publication according to those figures Australian viewership was up 26% on 2015 with crowds up 7%. That's not terrible. Will be interested in seeing the pverall wrap up but neither of those figures are anything to be immediately disregarded. The biggest worry is the Wallabies current dire form.
The article doesn't actually say much about SA. But does npt that again, while down on 2012 the figures are slightly up on last year.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
The Sunwolves aren't the best Japanese rugby has to offer, they couldn't get the best because Super rugby was seen as a distraction from the Top League. It's as simple as making it NOT a distraction but making it a focus.
Here are the Top League Standings for recent years...
Top League Semi-Finalists 2012
Suntory Sungoliath
Sanyo Wild Knights
Toshiba Brave Lupus
NEC Green Rockets
Top League Semi-Finalists 2013
Suntory Sungoliath
Panasonic Wild Knights
Toshiba Brave Lupus
Kobelco Steelers
Top League Semi-Finalists 2014
Panasonic Wild Knights
Suntory Sungoliath
Kobelco Steelers
Toshiba Brave Lupus
Top League Semi-Finalists 2015
Kobe Steel Kobelco Steelers
Toshiba Brave Lupus
Panasonic Wild Knights
Yamaha Júbilo
Top League Semi-Finalists 2016
Panasonic Wild Knights
Toshiba Brave Lupus
Yamaha Júbilo
Kobelco Steelers
Notice any trends?
Not the worst idea, but the fact is these Japanese teams are PROVEN quantities. They're financially viable.
Who knows for a Hong Kong or Singapore team?
This is largely what I'm saying, the only thing stopping them right now are rules around the number of foreign players allowed on the field as once.
In addition, Japanese players culturally do not move teams because of their 'job for life' philosophy. Soccer, with good management, broke this culture and I believe rugby could too. Having higher and lower tiered teams (Super Rugby + NPC style comp) would serve to break this mould by necessity.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I think we should move this conversation off the Force thread and onto say the SANZAAR Fan Survey thread. However, I will put a few more thoughts on the issue.
The TL has just undergone a restructure from what I can tell. Perhaps to accomodate the Sunwolves a little more. Which if so would be great for their preparation. I do agree with your sentiment somewhat. I would have to say I'd prefer to see new nations fully commit to the Super Rugby format with multiple teams when possible. I do believe the greater level of exposure of more Japanese players to higher quality competition the better it would be for the game in Japan. So, your three team idea is interesting. I do agree that if allowed to up the foreign player quotas they could fill gaps fairly quickly.
Regarding Singapore and Hong Kong. The latter are actually professionalizing a 30 man training group at present. This will be alongside their current professional 7s group. So there are structures being put in place. They are also going to need regular competition. This may seem a little glib but a team like Hong Kong would be better suited to Super Rugby than as a Test nation. Well, outside of Asia anyway. Same for Singapore in many regards.
Surely the two east/south-east Asian teams'd be much better suited joining the Top Japanese league?
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Dick Tooth (41)
The SA part said
My concern as I said before we live off the SA and more recently international ratings.
Attendances are down to their lowest level.
If they fall further and if the quota system results in many players leaving SA for Europe and a fall in standard of SA "broadcast rugby" then it will hurt us.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
Fair on all counts.
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Dick Tooth (41)
Just on the media thing we were discussing over the last few days. We were in part looking at how hard ball Fox can be and what could maybe happen.
Social media was ablaze today that Fox stopped because they could FTA coverage of the Socceroo match tonight.
I understand its nothing to do with us nor do I pendent to have any knowledge of the ins and outs of why. I post more to show if Fox wanta too, they don't mind throwing there wait around.
Social media was ablaze today that Fox stopped because they could FTA coverage of the Socceroo match tonight.
I understand its nothing to do with us nor do I pendent to have any knowledge of the ins and outs of why. I post more to show if Fox wanta too, they don't mind throwing there wait around.
todd4
Dave Cowper (27)
Speculation in today's West Australian. Looks like RugbyWA's Floreat carpark is proving as popular as Ballymore's.
Western Force interim coach Dave Wessels has emerged as the favourite to lead the ailing Super Rugby side next season.
It is understood the Force are finalising contract negotiations with Wessels and an announcement is planned for next week.
Wessels was senior assistant and defence consultant under previous coach Michael Foley and took charge for the final three games of 2016 when Foley was sacked in the wake of a horrid campaign.
At 34, Wessels would be the youngest coach in Super Rugby — and is a year younger than captain Matt Hodgson, who has yet to renew his contract.
The new coach faces a massive task, needing to turn the Force into play-off contenders after 11 seasons without a finals appearance and to prove their relevance to Super Rugby as SANZAAR reviews the tournament format.
There had been calls for a high-profile appointment who could be a drawcard for future recruitment and the Australian Rugby Union was said to be supporting the Force in that area as part of its recent takeover of the club.
There are still about six vacancies in the Force squad for next season.
Wessels has intimate knowledge of the problems associated with attracting players from the Eastern States and also the impact of the club’s on-field performances.
Wessels joined the Force in 2013 after spells as defence consultant with the Stormers and Brumbies.
He was also assistant coach of the University of Cape Town varsity side.
He joined the Force with backs and attack coach Kevin Foote, who was head coach at the University of Cape Town.
Both were re-signed in 2015 as part of a package when Foley’s contract was extended.
Wessels has a year left on his Force contract, but Foote’s deal ends this year and a new coach will need to get his assistants in place as a priority.
It is understood a number of candidates for the job included overseas interest from former Force assistant John Mulvihill, coach at Kintetsu in Japan, and Chiefs legend and former All Black back-rower Jonno Gibbes, who is currently forwards coach at French Top 14 club Clermont.
Australia under-20 coach Adrian Thompson and a leading Shute Shield coach are also understood to have been on the final list, but former Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer, who was keen to kick start his coaching career, did not make the short-list.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/32520027/dave-wessels-favoured-to-coach-force/#page1
Western Force interim coach Dave Wessels has emerged as the favourite to lead the ailing Super Rugby side next season.
It is understood the Force are finalising contract negotiations with Wessels and an announcement is planned for next week.
Wessels was senior assistant and defence consultant under previous coach Michael Foley and took charge for the final three games of 2016 when Foley was sacked in the wake of a horrid campaign.
At 34, Wessels would be the youngest coach in Super Rugby — and is a year younger than captain Matt Hodgson, who has yet to renew his contract.
The new coach faces a massive task, needing to turn the Force into play-off contenders after 11 seasons without a finals appearance and to prove their relevance to Super Rugby as SANZAAR reviews the tournament format.
There had been calls for a high-profile appointment who could be a drawcard for future recruitment and the Australian Rugby Union was said to be supporting the Force in that area as part of its recent takeover of the club.
There are still about six vacancies in the Force squad for next season.
Wessels has intimate knowledge of the problems associated with attracting players from the Eastern States and also the impact of the club’s on-field performances.
Wessels joined the Force in 2013 after spells as defence consultant with the Stormers and Brumbies.
He was also assistant coach of the University of Cape Town varsity side.
He joined the Force with backs and attack coach Kevin Foote, who was head coach at the University of Cape Town.
Both were re-signed in 2015 as part of a package when Foley’s contract was extended.
Wessels has a year left on his Force contract, but Foote’s deal ends this year and a new coach will need to get his assistants in place as a priority.
It is understood a number of candidates for the job included overseas interest from former Force assistant John Mulvihill, coach at Kintetsu in Japan, and Chiefs legend and former All Black back-rower Jonno Gibbes, who is currently forwards coach at French Top 14 club Clermont.
Australia under-20 coach Adrian Thompson and a leading Shute Shield coach are also understood to have been on the final list, but former Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer, who was keen to kick start his coaching career, did not make the short-list.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/32520027/dave-wessels-favoured-to-coach-force/#page1
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Really? Australian Rugby.
T
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dru
David Wilson (68)
Intimate knowledge of the problems associated with attracting players from the east. Sounds a bit like the bloke who got KO'd by Mike Tyson in Round 3 having intimate knowledge of the power of Tysons right fist.
Surely this is just the start of the leaked speculation. In Qld the first leak was MOC. There were others. The initial disgruntlement from the fans led to less vitriole when they finally voiced the real selection.
When do we get the leak that ARU prefer an Aussie? Must be next.
Surely this is just the start of the leaked speculation. In Qld the first leak was MOC. There were others. The initial disgruntlement from the fans led to less vitriole when they finally voiced the real selection.
When do we get the leak that ARU prefer an Aussie? Must be next.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
If Dave Wessels gets appointed as Force head coach it means one of two things:
a) The ARU realise a side must be cut and are just tanking it until that time or
b) The financial situation of the Force and/or ARU is much, much more dire than is stated in the media.
Yes we should. It was a shame he left in the first place after spending some time with the Force around 2011ish. Can't help but feel like he, and a few other forwards, have been warehoused in Canberra.
a) The ARU realise a side must be cut and are just tanking it until that time or
b) The financial situation of the Force and/or ARU is much, much more dire than is stated in the media.
Yes we should. It was a shame he left in the first place after spending some time with the Force around 2011ish. Can't help but feel like he, and a few other forwards, have been warehoused in Canberra.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Surely not!
Four Super Starting standard, if not better in Carter, Enever, Staniforth and Arnold isn't overkill at lock. So much so that Fardy can play his preferred 6 after an excellent season the previous year in the second row?
Having so many tightheads that they can choose to play Australia's best ever Tighthead at Junior level at loosehead?
Enough backrow depth/recruitment ability to cover losing Hooper, Fainga’a, Mowen, Vaea, Auelua & Kimlin and still having one of the best backrows in Australia?
Couldn't possibly be warehousing talent.
They're not wrong to secure every talented player they can. The Australian Coach however should continuously make it clear to players that not being best XV at your Super Side will negatively impact your chances at Super Rugby selection.
Glad to see the mistake regarding Allalatola has been rectified though.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
I don't know if I 100% agree with that. All Australian franchises need to be aware that there is not enough talent to spread between the teams. In some instances it is in our best interests not to warehouse and to simply have excellent succession planning. The situation with Ruan Smith is a good example. Ruan signed with the Brumbies 4 seasons ago and has earned 51 caps (mostly from the bench). They now have a situation of Ruan Smith frustrated that he cannot nail down a starting role, getting older and choosing to go overseas to chase money rather than chase a starting role and/or international honours (which are harder to achieve from the bench). In the mean time a local guy in Tyrel Lomax moves to Victoria to further his career because he feels there is a log jam in front of him in Canberra. So the Brumbies end up losing two props- one to overseas and one to a rival franchise. But no worries hey- they've still got Ben Alexander.
You want to build the best squad possible. That is made easier if there is less competition for the few resources we have. That is made easier if there is a little bit of give and take such that starting quality players are warming the bench, especially when there are other guys who would do the job given the chance.
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