Western Force 2012

[Lee Grant]

It's getting to the time when 2012 stuff is being discussed in 2011 threads. It's suggested that matters pertaining to next year be discussed in 2012 threads and if one doesn't exist, start a new one.

Keep using the 2011 threads when appropriate.

The Force have a big problem next year in the scrum IMO. Fairbrother going and I have heard that Cowan will also be going overseas as well. That will leave Dunning, Longbottom and who PAE? They need to recruit the front row as a priority.

PAE is going to be a good'un but he is only 19 years old. I saw him a few months ago when the Force was back east playing in trials before the Super season. He played for their A team and had some cameos for the Force proper. He smashed guys in tackles and twice I remember big opponents running into him with the ball and bouncing off him, up and back. His scrums looked good too.


For those who don't know: THP Paul Alo-Emile is a big ethnic Islander lad who has matured physically beyond his years compared to a typical elite 19 y.o. prop of the European persuasion. I wish he could play in the Sydney comp which would help his development as a scrummager (don't worry about the rest of it) and enable the Force guys to assess where he is at.


I'm sure that the Rats could find a spot for him - but that is by-the by. As much as I don't like youngsters playing in pro rugby before their time I would not be surprised if PAE gets a run in some capacity next year.


LHP Cruze Ah-Nau was also in the Oz U/20 team last year and has turned 20 now. He probably needs a bit more time than PAE. Then there is a third Oz U/20 front rower in the Force stable: hooker Siliva Siliva who was at high school in Melbourne.


You'd have to think that Siliva would like to be back in Melbourne one day since Whittaker and Charles are in front of him at the Force and they are young also. Regardless, the Force have some fine young front rowers in their stable. They just need a bridge until these lads can play professional rugby.


It would be good to get an experienced prop from overseas but domestically, I would poach Jono Owen from the Brumbies stable as he is not getting a run there, doesn't have a Super contract, and has Ma'afu, Palmer and maybe Alexander in front of him for the 3 jersey anyway. He had a good stint in the ITM Cup last year and is currently the THP for Manly.


They could look at the Manly LHP too: Eddie Aholelei. He's 29, about 120kgs and can play on the TH side in club rugby. LHP Tetera Faulkner from Southern Districts is 22 and about 116kgs these days. Eddie has been in the Melbourne stable, such as it is, and Tetera has played for the Junior Tahs this year.

 

[Ruggo]

They need locks to start stepping up also so they can consider life after Sharp.

 

[Viking]

Wykes IS stepping up this season!

 

[tranquility]

Wykkes is going well. Hockings is getting game time, Battye is the biggest man in the world. So that's not too bad really.

PAE is the best youngster QLD has lost since Rabbit or Mr. Pocock. Somehow the force keep getting them.

At the time I was really bitter about it, because I know how good he is going to be. But with the benefit of hindsight I can see it was the right decision because just like Slipper and Daly he will be ready to go sooner rather than later.

 

[Ruggo]

No doubt and it is about time. Reality is that the Force are only an injury to sharpe away from being in a world of hurt.

 

[Ash]

If I were the Force, I'd try to get Sheperdson for 2 or more seasons. He's experienced, and with Dunning and Longbottom they wouldn't have a dominant scrum, but they shouldn't be destroyed week to week either.

Not sure what other good props will be there to poach - you'd think that the Brumbies will lose one of Ma'Food or Palmer (preferably Ma'Food), but can't think of much else. Weeks from the Rebels may also be ripe for a poach, as playing for the Force would still allow him to turn out for Sydney Uni.

I think that the front row future of the Force will be uncomfortable for the next 2 - 3 years, but assuming they can hold onto their young props and hookers, then they will be fine in the longer term.

Longbottom is an important player I think - I don't rate him particularly highly, but he's a local lad and developing local WA lads will be important for the future of the Force.

 

[Gnostic]

Palmer may well be on the market again next year with Alexander having been promised the THP position, so they will be looking everywhere for a LHP. If the Ponies renig on their promise to Alexander I wonder if he has an escape clause and perhaps he could head west. I also wonder on the Rebels next year, will Yoda be able to back up yet again.

 

[Ash]

If I were the Rebels management, then Yoda would be my number 1 player to retain for next year (and maybe after that too) - even let Cipriani go if it comes out to a Yoda v Cipriani context.

If he were available for the Wallabies, I reckon that Yoda would be easily in the matchday 22 based on his performances this year, if not starting.

 

[Lee Grant]

About the 2nd row and eventual replacements for Sharpe: Phoenix Battye is a big bopper but only 20. He was in the Oz U/20 team last year and may one day be a fine Super lock but I don't think anybody can assess him properly at the minute. Size isn't everything.

Wykes has had some good games but he is of the athlete, 6/LH lock type. I've seen Hockings play for the Rats and he didn't impress me and he is a bit of a stringbean like Wykes, to boot.

The Force need a hard-head grunter of the Bakkies/Thorn type (not that Sharpie was inclined that way). There are some goodies who are really backrowers who can play lock in Sydney club rugby like Gower and Tom Alexander, but you would hesitate to recommend them as Super grunters with their build.

I don't think that the Tahs will be wanting O'Connor next year, though that is another discussion. Maybe the Force could do worse than get him back for another gig, short term.

Dave McDuling of the Reds Academy, but from Sydney, could be another candidate. He is "only" 195 cms but has a big wing span and is Sydney Uni trained.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

McDuling would be my choice. I liked what I saw from him in Sydney 1st grade last year.

 

[Gnostic]

I don't think that the Tahs will be wanting O'Connor next year, though that is another discussion. Maybe the Force could do worse than get him back for another gig, short term.

I think they could do a lot better too. I have been less than impressed really in the limitted game time he has got.

 

[Lee Grant]

Any suggestions Gnostic?

 

[Gnostic]

Been thinking about it and unless they unearth some undiscovered gem almost everyone is another year away (Battye, Peterson et al) or already contracted. Maybe look overseas for somebody who wants a lifestyl;e change and experience our friendly shores.

If Mumm and Douglas hang around Peterson may want to look somwhere else where he can get a start, and I would be very happy for him to get shown the ropes by Sharpe, who must undisputed as the best lock in Oz IMO.

The only other option is a solid tradesman in the form of a Tom Alexander or a converted backrower like Dennis, neither ideal long term fixes.

 

[Lee Grant]

I don't think the Tahs will let go of Peterson and he will be contracted for 2012 even though he wasn't stellar for the Junior Tahs this year or for Manly in R2 (didn't play in R1). Young players like him are rare.

They'll let go of Jowitt and O'Connor. I not sure if Timani will stay with the Tahs because he's been mentioned in this forum as going to Japan. If not a 2nd row stable of: Douglas, Mumm, Vickerman, Peterson and Timani will tend to be useful for the Tahs.

 

[Gnostic]

Lee - do you really think Vickerman will play next year? If they keep Peterson I would rather see Timani go somewhere he will get regular game time. As much as I want the Tahs strong I want Oz Rugby stronger.

The Brumbies are also going to be in trouble next year as wel with Chapman moving on and Chisholm won't be that far behind him really. They will be left with Kimlin (who is a better 6 IMO) and Hand with who as back-ups.

 

[topo]

I think Timani has had some time at the Force and it didn't work out well. I suspect he would be unlikely to go back. Sam Carter from Brums Academy is worth a look. Played most of the year in 1st grade last year for Uni and is still only 21. He's tall, athletic, very good at lineout time and is starting to fill his gangly frame.
Can't imagine Dunning will play any useful on field role anywhere next year. He's broken. Time to look elsewhere. Rodzilla is not getting much game time at the Rebs but looks pretty good when he does.

 

[Lee Grant]

Gnostic

Vickerman is contracted to play for the Tahs in 2012 and 2013. I'm guessing that he will be a player/lineout coach in those years. I saw him play twice in the AP for Northampton (as an amateur) when Lawes was hurt and he didn't look out of place. In the 2nd game a commentator remarked on how well he could keep up with the pace of the game after being out for so long.

topo

Carter is handy but he's another of those athletic, skills type locks. Oz lacks a choice of grunt locks: what I call tight-head locks. Strong fellows who can help to stabilise the THP in this era of power hits and can shift bodies around in the collision area.

I realise that not many teams have a Bakkies Botha or a Brad Thorn so some compromises have to be made, but you don't want 3-4 locks in a squad being locks "with all the skills".

 

[Joe Mac]

They certainly have no shartage of depth in a fetching role with Pocock, then Hodgson and then Jenkins. When is Hodgson's contract up? You would think the Tah's would like to bring him home in 2012 with Waugh getting old.

In regards to Jenkins, I think he deserves a big wrap for his performance last weekend. 30 tackles made, 0 missed is an incredible performance for a player on their "real" debut. Give him a few more games to grow in confidence and he could be a real star for the Force in the years to come.

 

[qwerty51]

How big are his guns!

 

[Hawko]

Gnostic

Vickerman is contracted to play for the Tahs in 2012 and 2013. I'm guessing that he will be a player/lineout coach in those years. I saw him play twice in the AP for Northampton (as an amateur) when Lawes was hurt and he didn't look out of place. In the 2nd game a commentator remarked on how well he could keep up with the pace of the game after being out for so long.

I know the AP is not as quick as Super, but that's about the best news possible. If he's OK for AP then a couple of weeks at the higher intensity plus a bit of time with the squad should have him almost ready for that silly knock-out comp towards the end of the year.

Thanks for the news. For those of us without Setanta, please keep up the feedback.