Waratahs vs Reds - R3 2014

[redveincheese]

Reds looked a beaten team after the first try. A far cry from the attitude of past when they believed they could still win a game despite the scoreline at any given time during the match. A lot of work needed to even consider that they will make the top 2 teams in the conference.
I would praise the tahs efforts, but considering the comments made in their reverence in this thread it hardly seems needed. Enjoy tahs fans, its been a long time coming, and well deserved.

 

[Pfitzy]

Red team kicked away a shite load of ball too. Wassup wit dat?

 

[Lee Grant]

Wow - that was an unexpected scoreline yet it should have been a bigger margin. Errors by the Tahs kept the Reds in the game at oranges and delayed their point of no return for too long.

Some other points:

— the lineout of the Tahs was abominable and was one of the errors than contained the scoreline—and it was so for the usual spectrum of reasons that a lineout is bad—poor throwing, calls not executed right, delayed lifting, poor footwork of pods, poor timing of pods, plus things I have forgotten.

— I love Izzy, but for the second week in a row I thought that somebody else was the MOTM. Last week I would have given it to Palu, and this week to Beale. Hoiles may have received some votes by the forum but he lacked physicality with the carry, and the counter-ruck and counter-counter-ruck, that other light backrowers didn't, notably the 7s.

— There was an appreciable improvement in Beale's play in this match. Last week there was too much Giteau crabbing followed by miracle passes two steps too late. This week was not perfect, but when you examine what he did you would mark him high for both the quality of decision-making and the execution thereof. Each time he touched the ball must have been a mini-nightmare for defenders.

— Foley and Beale are working well together as alternate first receivers. Having two playmakers is often the recipe for confusion and missed opportunities, but not with these two, so far.

— But the best thing on the night for Tahs' was the incessant physicality of the forwards. It was as though one pod of forwards would apply the blowtorch and the next pod would try to top them, and so on.

In this regard Potgieter was the catalyst, Had the others not wanted to shock and awe, he would have dragged them into it.

And Benn Robinson, of all people, got stuck in. Some people wonder why he has been overlooked by Wallaby coaches on occasions, but not me. He could be the best scrummaging LHP in the land on a good day, but he doesn't impose himself enough in the contact areas whichever side has the ball.

Couldn't fault him tonight though.

— It is difficult to assess the Reds' players because the team played worse than the scoreline indicated. When that happens the minds of the players spin as to what they have to do to make up for the deficiencies of the others, and the next thing you know, they become part of the problem.

— A few years ago I watched this lad playing for Queensland in the Under 16s at Riverview, and the next year I met him and his uncle at the Opens in Canberra. Later that year I met him again, with his dad at Hunters Hill, after Aus Schools had beaten NZ Schools for the first time in years.

I looked forward to following the career of this fine young man with interest, but he was hampered by injury.

Tonight I saw him play in a losing side but he was one of the few spark plugs that his team had.

Well done Aidan Toua; I wish you well.
.

 

[Langthorne]

For the Reds, I thought Toua always looked dangerous (so quick), Cooper was very composed considering what he had to work with, Gill put in a lot of work, as did Horwill (to a lesser extent). Turner was pretty strong ball in hand. Having said that, none of them were near their best.

 

[Hawko]

Wow - that was an unexpected scoreline yet it should have been a bigger margin. Errors by the Tahs kept the Reds in the game at oranges and delayed their point of no return for too long.

Some other points:

— the lineout of the Tahs was abominable and was one of the errors than contained the scoreline—and it was so for the usual spectrum of reasons that a lineout is bad—poor throwing, calls not executed right, delayed lifting, poor footwork of pods, poor timing of pods, plus things I have forgotten.

— I love Izzy, but for the second week in a row I thought that somebody else was the MOTM. Last week I would have given it to Palu, and this week to Beale. Hoiles may have received some votes by the forum but he lacked physicality with the carry, and the counter-ruck and counter-counter-ruck, that other light backrowers didn't, notably the 7s.

— There was an appreciable improvement in Beale's play in this match. Last week there was too much Giteau crabbing followed by miracle passes two steps too late. This week was not perfect, but when you examine what he did you would mark him high for both the quality of decision-making and the execution thereof. Each time he touched the ball must have been a mini-nightmare for defenders.

— Foley and Beale are working well together as alternate first receivers. Having two playmakers is often the recipe for confusion and missed opportunities, but not with these two, so far.

— But the best thing on the night for Tahs' was the incessant physicality of the forwards. It was as though one pod of forwards would apply the blowtorch and the next pod would try to top them, and so on.

In this regard Potgieter was the catalyst, Had the others not wanted to shock and awe, he would have dragged them into it.

And Benn Robinson, of all people, got stuck in. Some people wonder why he has been overlooked by Wallaby coaches on occasions, but not me. He could be the best scrummaging LHP in the land on a good day, but he doesn't impose himself enough in the contact areas whichever side has the ball.

Couldn't fault him tonight though.

— It is difficult to assess the Reds' players because the team played worse than the scoreline indicated. When that happens the minds of the players spin as to what they have to do to make up for the deficiencies of the others, and the next thing you know, they become part of the problem.

— A few years ago I watched this lad playing for Queensland in the Under 16s at Riverview, and the next year I met him and his uncle at the Opens in Canberra. Later that year I met him again, with his dad at Hunters Hill, after Aus Schools had beaten NZ Schools for the first time in years.

I looked forward to following the career of this fine young man with interest, but he was hampered by injury.

Tonight I saw him play in a losing side but he was one of the few spark plugs that his team had.

Well done Aidan Toua; I wish you well.
.

Lee, I agree with most of what you said but think a couple of points need reinforcing:

1. On the actual performance we should have won by 50. We are still leaving easy points out there on the park.
2. I still think we have to get Crawford back on one wing for his ability to kick long. Neither winger deserves to be dropped but against better sides we need to make more ground with our penalties. I like that we are not trying to kick for goal from too far out but we must have someone who can kick it to the ten metre line for the lineout.
3. There must be a word that more accurately describes the Tah lineout than abominable. The air was blue at my place after almost every lineout, the ones we won, we won by pure chance. Vickerman has a huge job in front of him - at least we've got two weeks to correct it. The Brumbies will murder us if we don't.
4. The relentless physicality was just extraordinary. Palu stood out to me, he was my MOM. Ryan, TPN, Potgieter, and Douglas were right up there. The backs physicality was also fantastic. Alofa isn't a loafer. Robbo was a bit inaccurate but a whole lot better than usual. The Reds didn't know what hit them.
5. I thought Turner was the Reds best player, Toua, Cooper, A. Fainga'a, Horwill and Gill were OK. The rest were pretty poor compared to their opposites.

Tonight was a great night to be a Waratahs supporter.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Crowd tipping is bloody hard at Homebush. I reckon it would have been around 18k, 20 tops.

The rain (or threat thereof) probably cost about 5k. Mardi Gras night may have cost an extra k or two.

The return match at Suncorp will be a sell out. 2015 game in Sydney should have a decent sized crowd.

Georgina Robinson from the Herald twitter feed reckons crowd just short of 18000.
https://twitter.com/geerob

 

[the sabanator]

The Reds never actually got into the game. After beating the Brumbies in Canberra I think they may have been a bit emotionally drained, but the team never seemed to get up for the occasion. After Folau crossed the stripe the first time it was over.

• A Fainga'a needs to start over Taps, simply because of what he offers in defence. That said, I thought Tapuai had one of his better games for a while, still struggling to reach his early 2012 form.
• Horwill looks better, but the overall physicality of the Reds forwards was down.
• The Tahs pack is big and strong, and play like it too. Really impressed with their ability to move the Reds backwards both in attack and defence.
• Schatz and Quirk both have the ability to turn the Reds' backrow into a long term strong point, but at the moment they're lacking the size, aggression or combination of both to really stamp themselves on the game. A strong, physical backrow will be imperative for the Reds over the rest of the season.
• My thoughts seemed to mirror James Slipper's when he was subbed off - strange call. Daley's scrummaging is a liability and I thought Slipper was travelling alright.
• Gill and Hooper were two of the standouts for their respective teams, and getting to watch each of them play is a pleasure. Giving the points to Gill in this one, but Hooper looks improved on the ball at the ruck this year - forced a good turnover in the second half that really sucked any remaining life out of the Reds.
• Quade needs a strong ballrunner to shovel passes to - I'm looking at CFS. Shipperley was average again, I'd be looking to make the swap.
• The Tahs backline is exciting. Apart from the obvious in Folau, its good to see Beale playing to his potential again. ATM have him pencilled in at 12 for the Wallabies.
• AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets better with age.
• Waratahs lineout is a worry going forward, Reds looked clearly superior in that department (and that department only). Not sure whether its missed communication or TPN's throwing, but I suspect it may be the latter.
• Folau appears to be reading the game better after a year's experience, and will cement himself as the world's premier 15 by the end of the year.
• I thought James Hanson looked good when he came on, would like to see him play a few more matches in a starting role.
• Quade had a decent game behind what was a failing forward pack. Thought Frisby was an improvement over Genia when he came on - uncharacteristically poor game.
• I hate to rain on the young man's parade after battling injury after injury, but while Aidan Toua is exciting in attack, his kicking, positioning and defence all need work before Reds faithful can get truly excited about his prospects.
• Lachie Turner had another strong performance.
• Game was won and lost in the forwards - NSW way too good in this aspect.

All in all, looking forward to the rematch at Suncorp

 

[fatprop]

I thought for the first 45 minutes the Tahs were very good, strong cleanout, strong running and great attitude.

I was concerned with their approach to the last 30 minutes, they seemed to lose focus and application. Potgieter being subbed looked to be the catalyst

The Reds? They looked shell shocked

 

[Ruggo]

It is the same as the Rebels v Cheetahs the night before. It is a cop out to just say the Reds were crap. The Tahs from the kick off never let the Reds build into their game and we were always denied a chance to lay our platform. We played crap because the Tahs did such a great job at forcing us out of our comfort zone. Just look at the shitload of ball we kicked away, not to mention the kicking game was shit all night.

Would have been a very different contest had the Tahs let us build some continuity early on but to their credit, they didn't.

 

[Richo]

No doubt some of the abysmal line out was due to Dennis being injured, but that's not a good enough excuse.

Lineout and goal kicking continue to worry me. In tight games we'll need to slot over 40m kicks. Beale has the range, hope he's putting in the work.

 

[fatprop]

It is the same as the Rebels v Cheetahs the night before. It is a cop out to just say the Reds were crap. The Tahs from the kick off never let the Reds build into their game and we were always denied a chance to lay our platform. We played crap because the Tahs did such a great job at forcing us out of our comfort zone. Just look at the shitload of ball we kicked away, not to mention the kicking game was shit all night.

Would have been a very different contest had the Tahs let us build some continuity early on but to their credit, they didn't.

The Tahs cleanout in the first half reminded me of the British Lions, they had great body height and were smashing units, and that meant that could invest less units to each breakdown and that meant more running options and better support at the next ruck

 

[Dan54]

Noticed how Tahs niggled Genia in first half, just holding a leg at ruck, push knock into him as they run back onside etc, certainly seemed to go off his game, and he seemed to be going off at team mates a bit. I tend to think a few coaches would of taken note.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This won't be too popular but there seems to me to be huge gulf in the skill and speed level shown by the Tahs and that seen in the Chiefs v Highlanders game. Tahs made fewer simple errors last night than last last week but I don't see the same speed (of thought and action) as the Kiwis are showing.
I do not have a good feeling about the strength of the Australian conference.
I doubt the true mettle of the Tahs will be capable of being judged until they have played outside their conference.

 

[Richo]

I doubt the true mettle of the Tahs will be capable of being judged until they have played outside their conference.

Yes, although the Rebels thoroughly demolished the Cheetahs on Friday, and they were one of the more talked about SA sides coming into the season.

 

[barbarian]

Re MoTM, the Tahs have started awarding it based on fan SMS and twitter votes, hence it has gone to Folau both weeks, and I assume it will go to him every other week as well.

This will undoubtedly bite them on the arse when the Tahs are beaten by 20 and the fans vote the MoTM to be....... Israel Folau!!

That's why Ch9 ditched it after one game for test cricket- we got dusted by NZ in Hobart, Bracewell took 7-for and they gave the prize to Warner.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes, although the Rebels thoroughly demolished the Cheetahs on Friday, and they were one of the more talked about SA sides coming into the season.

Strange one that - haven't watched all of the game yet.
Cheetahs are appalling travellers, are they not?
The commentary included statements about how much fun the coaches have in Australia - that could be the issue.

 

[I like to watch]

This won't be too popular but there seems to me to be huge gulf in the skill and speed level shown by the Tahs and that seen in the Chiefs v Highlanders game. Tahs made fewer simple errors last night than last last week but I don't see the same speed (of thought and action) as the Kiwis are showing.
I do not have a good feeling about the strength of the Australian conference.
I doubt the true mettle of the Tahs will be capable of being judged until they have played outside their conference.

I refuse to consider the points you raise ATM.
It's not often we beat up the Reds so comprehensively.
I'm going to savour that feeling as long as I can.
Reality can wait a little bit.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ (to post 376) @Inside Shoulder, Cheetahs have traditionally had a poor record on tour, with a home teams more or less guaranteed an easy 4 points.

IIRC, last year they broke that mould and performed well on tour, destroying many otherwise successful footy tipping strategies, including yours truly. Maybe this year will see them return to type, with last year being the exception that proved the rule.

Cheetahs 2013 was some bloody good rugby.

 

[Richo]

The Cheetahs had some victories against the Tahs at the SFS, even in their cellar-dwelling days.

I've seen 2 of their games this season and they were poor in both. Look sloppy and unable to surprise teams this year.

 

[#1 Tah]

So does anyone know what that poker face thing was about? It worked.

Spoke to Kane Douglas after the game, he told me it was about not showing any emotion to the QLDers, no sledging, nothing after a big hit, just get up and get on with the game.