Waratahs vs Cheetahs Super Rugby-R5 2013

[Quick Hands]

The first 4 rounds have really driven home the enormity of the task facing Michael Cheika.

It's become quite apparent (and many posters have said this already), that many of these guys aren't up to it. No coach past or present anywhere in the world coulld win a Super Rugby tournament with this squad. The collective responsibilty for that rests with Hickey/Foley and the Waratahs administration.

Amongst other things we need a half back who can take control of the game. Pretorius made Foley and the 2012 brains trust look even more stupid by completely outplaying McKibben last night. Take away his goal kicking and there's not much left that McKibben contributes. In 2013 he has been the least impressive 9 in the Aussie conference, behind the Reds second stringer Frisbee.

Finally on the crowd, yes it was poor, but if ARU and SANZAR programme games in Sydney on a Friday night, that's about what they can expect. The customer is always right - if your customers aren't coming on Friday nights, why are you putting games on at that time? Possibly because you don't really care about the fans???

 

[qwerty51]

Why would SANZAR care about crowds? They care about ratings

 

[rugbysmartarse]

True. I've discussed this on twitter with Sally loane. She said if it was up to the tahs board it would be all Saturday arvo games. But they get what they are given, which means dealing with Friday night games against teams the fans won't be excited about. For those not familiar with Sydney, getting to the SFS by 7:30 on a Friday is an absolute fucker unless you work in town and have no other responsibilities (like kids, uni, or dinner)

 

[Badger]

^ Wouldn't Saturday arvo games clash with playing commitments?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Lots of bitching about the Tahs on this thread. Just one question to Tah fans having a bitch? (not by a long shot is it even the majority of them) Who of you actually went to the game last night to support your boys? That crowd was depressing for the Tahs and it was depressing for Australian Rugby. They mind of well played the game in a grave yard.

It looked like the Tahs really had a crack at improvement under their new system and apart from the loss it looked to have many positives. The Tahs are nowhere near as fickle as their so called fan base. As Ghandi said "Be the change you want to see", so get off your arses and go and support the boys.

Compare them to the Force fans who come in droves consistantly despite the lack of on field success to support their team with a shitload of heart. Not a big Force fan personally but their fans certainly have my respect

You're not the only one that thinks that the number of people attending is an adverse reflection on the consumers rather than a damning indictment of the product.
The Tahs get the fans they deserve and the number of fans they deserve.
Some have watched this under achievement for so long (since the early 80's) that we've given up. When the Tahs show they've changed we'll be back.
In the meantime those defending the Tahs would do well to question their role in the development of the all pervasive attitude of entitlement implicit in berating fans for not turning up to watch this inept crap.

 

[Quick Hands]

^ Wouldn't Saturday arvo games clash with playing commitments?

TV probably wouldn't cop Saturday afternoons, but Saturday nights or even Sunday evenings (6.30pm start) would be a goer for both TV and fans.

I realise that this is one thing that NSWRU/Waratahs have no control over - but SANZAR (of which the ARU is 1/3 stakeholder) does. They really need to push this if they are serious about getting big crowds. Friday night basically takes 10,000 from the crowd. If you work in the suburbs, finish at 5 or 5.30, there's just no way you can get home, pick up the kids and get to the ground on time for the game.

 

[JSRF10]

Have to say haven't been on since the game, but was pleased that the Waratahs mixed it up a bit in attack however the tries we conceded were all so soft. The task ahead is massive for Cheika, but I saw enough there to be encouraged about the future.

The timing of the games haven't been great, lets hope we get some nice weather the next two sundays and get some decent crowds into SFS.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

TV probably wouldn't cop Saturday afternoons, but Saturday nights or even Sunday evenings (6.30pm start) would be a goer for both TV and fans.

I realise that this is one thing that NSWRU/Waratahs have no control over - but SANZAR (of which the ARU is 1/3 stakeholder) does. They really need to push this if they are serious about getting big crowds. Friday night basically takes 10,000 from the crowd. If you work in the suburbs, finish at 5 or 5.30, there's just no way you can get home, pick up the kids and get to the ground on time for the game.

3:30 sunday arvo
There's virtually no S15 ever played that late on the weekend and it would be on air in NZ at 6:30 sunday night: even the Tahs would rate the house down.
I suspect it creates a problem for travel because anyone playing that late would not get to Seth Efrika until Monday evening, i think.

 

[Richo]

There was an A-League game at the SFS on Saturday night. That may have been scheduled earlier. It certainly had more fans.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ That must be of concern to ARU. Traditionally diveball has had huge numbers in the juniors with the mums not wanting kids to play rough games like Mungoball or Heavensgame, but that support hasn't translated into the domestic Adult game.

A League seems to be the vehicle that is starting to do that. More fans = more demand for TV = more interest from the big end of town = less interest from the big end of town for Heavensgame.

 

[barbarian]

I thought the Tahs played well this game, but lost it with a few very poor moments in the first and last 10 minutes.

The Cheetahs certainly aren't the minnows they were two years ago. The two losses are not really that comparable IMO.

Very impressed with Ryan and Betham. Both now should have starting spots locked for a month at least. Was also very impressed by Folau. Could it be we have finally discovered a fullback who can catch the high ball?
.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Agree Hugh. I was worried pre season that we wouldn't see much of Bethan due to other former wallaby stocks, but he took his chance very well. I also like kingston's form and energy on the other wing.

What do do with drew Mitchell now?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I thought the Tahs played well this game, but lost it with a few very poor moments in the first and last 10 minutes.

The Cheetahs certainly aren't the minnows they were two years ago. The two losses are not really that comparable IMO.

Very impressed with Ryan and Betham. Both now should have starting spots locked for a month at least. Was also very impressed by Folau. Could it be we have finally discovered a fullback who can catch the high ball?
.

The lack of viable structures meant that Betham played as an additional backrower.
He's got ticker but how anyone could be suggesting him for the Wallabies is beyond me: part of the disease infecting this country's rugby culture I suspect - always looking for the next big thing as a solution to structural fundamental issues.

 

[cyclopath]

For the Wallabies? Who suggested that?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For the Wallabies? Who suggested that?

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/wallabies-watch.12362/page-26#post-457116

 

[fatprop]

OK

Sort of recovered from the poo that was that game

The things they lacked
The ability to catch and pass
The ability to pass in front of a player
The ability to catch a ball while moving
The ability to run at the gap instead of the man

Things that are nearly there
There was a structure of sorts. They were moving the ball two passes away from contact, they were then trying the inside line to find lazy runners. The challenge was they dropped ball, allowed turnovers and the Cheetahs just slowed the game down.

The things I liked
Paddy Ryan - scrums well, works hard
Hooper - good unit
Bethan - Bethan does shit a speed

The Meh
Timani brothers - run at people too often

We looked like the Reds and the Crusaders (until they got going) - too much ball high, low or behind, not enough units working off the ball.

Also our clean out & support is too lateral - we lack depth unless the runner breaks the line - we spread out to do those static catch and passes; and don't have units positioned in a second (staggered?) line as ball support/cleanout options from depth

 

[cyclopath]

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/wallabies-watch.12362/page-26#post-457116

Sample size = 1.
Hardly a movement, IS!!!

 

[Richo]

Also our clean out & support is too lateral - we lack depth unless the runner breaks the line - we spread out to do those static catch and passes; and don't have units positioned in a second (staggered?) line as ball support/cleanout options from depth

It was interesting watching the Saders game in contrast. They play that side to side game but support is always there and players know when to come back at an angle to reverse the direction and shift the defense. The Tahs are a long way from that sort of play, but it's good to see the seeds there.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That being said, the Saders were a little ordinary in the early games.

Unfortunately for the Bulls, things clicked for them last weekend.

If they can continue to play that way, then Saders vs Chiefs, Chiefs vs Ponies, and Poines vs Saders will be memorable games.

 

[BPC]

I was there. The crowd was small but was largely backing the Tahs, compared to large segments of apathy last season.

I would not be surprised if Cheika takes the opportunity to dramatically change the squad with a number of players coming off contract. There are several good players who are just too set in their ways to change. I remember Barnes showing so much potential when he subbed for Larkham in the 07 RWC and I was excited when he moved to the Tahs. But slowly his game has changed (maybe from the head knocks and footballer's migrane) so now he sits too deep in the pocket and his first instinct is to kick. I suspect it would be too hard to change his style now so as good a player as he is, I would not be upset to see him let go. If Cheika gets his way and there is a big clean out at the end of the season, next year might be grim as well but hopefully it will pay off after that.

Was also very impressed by Folau. Could it be we have finally discovered a fullback who can catch the high ball?

He has an amazing jump but was this the first time he has used it?

Speaking of jumping, I was impressed by the Cheetahs prop who lifted his lock to take the ball only for the lock to fall backwards. The prop had the strenght to pull the lock back upright and bring him down. That lock owes that prop many a beer.