Waratahs v Stormers, rd 13 Super Rugby 2013

[Pfitzy]

If you hold a player up in the tackle until its a maul, then when it goes to ground you don't have to roll away, and if you tie it up you win the put in. However if you are defending a maul and work your way through to the ball holder and take him to ground, you are required to roll away. Why is this? Isn't it the same situation? IMO if you get to the ball Ayer in a maul and bring him down you should win the turnover, same as with holding a player up. Anyone know why they have different rings?

They are exactly the same situation BUT it depends if the ball can get to deck, or if the ref deems it playable. Once you're out the back of the maul the ref knows where the ball is and will give benefit to the side with the ball generally. Otherwise the defending team.

Rugby interpretations are well crap

 

[fatprop]

I was pretty impressed with the Tahs attitude.

The stormers are a difficult team that smothers sides with tough incredibly consistent structures

It isn't too long ago that they would have lost that game, but last night they stuck at it and came through.

I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne were immense, Horne was direct, straight and effective - and real tough in defense. If Deans is looking for that type of 12, he could do a lot worse, especially if McCabe continues to be a bench option at the Ponies

It was an ugly game at times with the Stormers defence blotting out plenty of potential moments, they just slowed the ball down enough for them to realign and start smashing again. Thankfully they are clueless in attack, so the Tahs were able to not let them get their momentum from the too many turnovers

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I think Barnes very nearly resorted to his old self with those aimless kicks but he quickly pulled his head in and I thought he looked really good. I expect him to get more game time next week.
Agree re Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Both are playing very well.
Ur forwards, robbo and tpn aside, go in way to high. Timani is useless going into contact against a good defensive unit like the stormers. He had some good tackles but overall I thought hewas poor. Paul was ok
Betham and Mitchell were both quiet.

 

[Blue]

Stormers are a very difficult team to play and score against - rock solid defence, which was clearly offside at times - particularly the outside backs. It looked like a Canterbury Rugby League umbrella defence from the 80s.

Are they really? I don't think so.

I take nothing away from the Tahs but the Stormers have nothing in attack. Before the game I said that they don't have enough points in them. 5 or six phases of one out bashing up is all they have in attack. There is no deception or variation. Van Aswegen must be one of the worst attacking flyhalves I have seen in a long time. Either that or he is under instruction to do exactly the same thing every time he gets the ball.

Match them upfront, make sure you defend them well (which they make easy because you know what's coming), and take yout chances. The Tahs did all of those. Opposing teams have been studying the Stormers game plan for about four years now and in that time it has not changed one little bit.

Coach Coetzee is stuck in 2007 World Cup winning rugby.

Do the basics well and you beat them. If you go an analyse their tries you will see a large percentage come from the forwards and individual brilliance by a back. Almost never from a sustained, planned attack.

All I can say is thank god I do not support them. I would have started cutting myself by now.

As for the Tahs there is genuine reason for optimism. They would dead set have lost this game in the past, even earlier this season.

Barnes really is a great guy to bring on off the bench. Good rugby head to carry out an exact plan suited for the situation if someone lobotomises his kicking gene before he runs on.

As for Timani vs Douglas. If you cannot see that Douglas is a far superior lock forward than Timani after last night's game you seriously need a lobotomy yourself. Timani is a flat track bully. Met by tough men he just disappears.

 

[fatprop]

Cheika's press conference
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/waratahs-presser/video-e6frf4pu-1226640365350?subcat=1226625973574

His comments on the stormers defensive system was pretty interesting, it is no wonder the wings don't get the ball, their umbrella defence makes that near impossible, he said you just have to keep going through your attack and hope they make a mistake and Habana finally did

He is also damn impressive in admitting errors, apparently he was in the coaches box wanting Dennis to take that penalty kick, but after hearing Dennis's thoughts afterwards (he wasn't confident the Tahs could get back down there again in the time remaining against the Stormers defence), he admitted was 100% right. Dennis as a captain appears to be be growing as well. His play is getting better as the burden becomes more comfortable on him.

 

[Brisbok]

Van Aswegen must be one of the worst attacking flyhalves I have seen in a long time. Either that or he is under instruction to do exactly the same thing every time he gets the ball.

This! Why have they persisted with him?! Between Fleck and Coetzee can they not see that this guy adds NOTHING? Nothing on attack, nothing on defence, he's not there for his goalkicking, his kicking out of hand is nothing special. WHY? The Stormers looked a their best this year with Jantjies at 10. They actually posed some questions of opposition defences and scored a few good tries. Now they have nothing. No disrespect to the Waratahs, but they are not the best defensive team in the competition. Yet the Stormers did not look like scoring a try or even breaking the line at any stage. Heads need to roll in the coaching box after this campaign.

 

[qwerty51]

JdV gave the Tahs a big compliment

"This team is playing for something bigger than just the team or just rugby games," he said. "They're much more committed to the cause and to the team.
"I won't say it's a better team than in the past. I won't say they've got much better players, but the willingness to do well, and to play for each other and to get results is there."

 

[barbarian]

Cheika gives a fucking great presser. Every question he gives you something a little out of the ordinary. Even the last one on Rob Horne and the salary cap (not sure if that was in the video), he gave a really interesting insight into negotiation and reconfiguring of salaries and incentives.

 

[fatprop]

Cheika gives a fucking great presser. Every question he gives you something a little out of the ordinary. Even the last one on Rob Horne and the salary cap (not sure if that was in the video), he gave a really interesting insight into negotiation and reconfiguring of salaries and incentives.

you would think with Palu, Barnes, Mitchell & Timani leaving it won't be too hard to keep Horne

 

[Pfitzy]

Horne bossed it last night. You know he's not going to pass it much, but you know he's going to run wherever you point, and potentially damage a fluffybunny while he's at it. Still young too

 

[Quick Hands]

Are they really? I don't think so.

I take nothing away from the Tahs but the Stormers have nothing in attack. Before the game I said that they don't have enough points in them. 5 or six phases of one out bashing up is all they have in attack. There is no deception or variation. Van Aswegen must be one of the worst attacking flyhalves I have seen in a long time. Either that or he is under instruction to do exactly the same thing every time he gets the ball.

Match them upfront, make sure you defend them well (which they make easy because you know what's coming), and take yout chances. The Tahs did all of those. Opposing teams have been studying the Stormers game plan for about four years now and in that time it has not changed one little bit.

Coach Coetzee is stuck in 2007 World Cup winning rugby.

Do the basics well and you beat them. If you go an analyse their tries you will see a large percentage come from the forwards and individual brilliance by a back. Almost never from a sustained, planned attack.

All I can say is thank god I do not support them. I would have started cutting myself by now.

As for the Tahs there is genuine reason for optimism. They would dead set have lost this game in the past, even earlier this season.

Barnes really is a great guy to bring on off the bench. Good rugby head to carry out an exact plan suited for the situation if someone lobotomises his kicking gene before he runs on.

As for Timani vs Douglas. If you cannot see that Douglas is a far superior lock forward than Timani after last night's game you seriously need a lobotomy yourself. Timani is a flat track bully. Met by tough men he just disappears.

Where did I say anything about Stormer's attack?

I didn't, because they don't have any.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think Barnes has got to be in the XV, purely on goal kicking, he showed it there with his 2 kicks. A better goal kicker will let us play more, teams will be more worried about infringing.

Hard to dislodge Foley and Horne though.

But his general kicking was the same old mindless hoisting of the ball without a plan relying on hope.
80 minutes of that would spell trouble, I think.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Cheika's press conference
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/waratahs-presser/video-e6frf4pu-1226640365350?subcat=1226625973574

His comments on the stormers defensive system was pretty interesting, it is no wonder the wings don't get the ball, their umbrella defence makes that near impossible, he said you just have to keep going through your attack and hope they make a mistake and Habana finally did

He is also damn impressive in admitting errors, apparently he was in the coaches box wanting Dennis to take that penalty kick, but after hearing Dennis's thoughts afterwards (he wasn't confident the Tahs could get back down there again in the time remaining against the Stormers defence), he admitted was 100% right. Dennis as a captain appears to be be growing as well. His play is getting better as the burden becomes more comfortable on him.

Shit: that's a very impressive thought process from Dennis actually on the field after 70(?) minutes.
I mean, we in the stands and lying on our couches get them right for the right reasons all the time but on the field it's not always so easy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Quick Hands]

But his general kicking was the same old mindless hoisting of the ball without a plan relying on hope.
80 minutes of that would spell trouble, I think.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And we saw 2 examples of it last night in his 10 mins on the field. (which after the 2nd mid-field bomb saw the crowd break into boos as we had flashbacks from the Hickey/Foley era). He's not going to be here next year and we're not going to make the semis. I can't see the point of picking him just to kick goals, when we're looking to the future.

One of the reasons things are proceeding so well is that the backline has been so settled, 9, 10, 12, 13 & 15 haven't changed for weeks. 11 & 14 have had the odd change, mainly through injury. It's not a coincidence.

And does anyone know why he defended at hooker on Stormers lineout throws? (with TPN at half and Lucas defending at 5/8.)

 

[Quick Hands]

Shit: that's a very impressive thought process from Dennis actually on the field after 70(?) minutes.
I mean, we in the stands and lying on our couches get them right for the right reasons all the time but on the field it's not always so easy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Very impressive and proved to be correct.

I'm wondering what the rugby folk of Cape Town think about the style of play (if you can call it style) played by the Stormers. It was like watching the Waratahs of 2011, only worse. They basically seem like that have no interest in scoring, just stopping the opposition and hoping to win by default. Any of their matches that I have seen this year have followed a similar script.

 

[Blue]

Where did I say anything about Stormer's attack?

I didn't, because they don't have any.

You made the argument that they are tough to play and I am making the argument that it's not as hard as it seems if you play the right game plan. The reasons I gave are exactly why they 4wins and 6 losses.

In the six losses the winning teams planted big boppers in the backline and allowed them to keep coming but met them every time.

As a result you do not need to score a boatload of points.

 

[Richo]

The Stormers defense is really impressive in person. Not sure how clear it is on tv, but they maintain their line so well and fold that umbrella so reliably that it really looks difficult to get through.

It's also interesting to see that the Tahs really have added some tactical kicking to their play. Cheika was not bullshitting when he described the way the team's play would develop.

 

[Quick Hands]

You made the argument that they are tough to play and I am making the argument that it's not as hard as it seems if you play the right game plan. The reasons I gave are exactly why they 4wins and 6 losses.

In the six losses the winning teams planted big boppers in the backline and allowed them to keep coming but met them every time.

As a result you do not need to score a boatload of points.

You don't need to score a boatload of points to beat them, but every point you get has to be earned the hard way.

EDIT:
They're coming 10th out of 15 and have a points differential of -4, which suggests a well structured defence, lack of attack and close matches win or lose. I'd call that tough to play - no one has run through them so far this year and watching last night, I would expect that to continue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And we saw 2 examples of it last night in his 10 mins on the field. (which after the 2nd mid-field bomb saw the crowd break into boos as we had flashbacks from the Hickey/Foley era). He's not going to be here next year and we're not going to make the semis. I can't see the point of picking him just to kick goals, when we're looking to the future.

One of the reasons things are proceeding so well is that the backline has been so settled, 9, 10, 12, 13 & 15 haven't changed for weeks. 11 & 14 have had the odd change, mainly through injury. It's not a coincidence.

And does anyone know why he defended at hooker on Stormers lineout throws? (with TPN at half and Lucas defending at 5/8.)

Foley was doing the same.
Its no doubt some dastardly and cunning plan - leaves us somewhat bare if we jag one against the throw!

 

[Braveheart81]

Foley pointed out in the press conference that Barnes has only trained with the side for a few days.

The last couple of weeks when he would have been training with the side they were in South Africa.

I think he's got plenty to add this season and he'll be a lot better once he's joined the team for a couple of weeks. At least he looks fit and ready to go.