Waratahs V Force - Superugby Rd 4

[AngrySeahorse]

Well that was f*cked

I can cope with losing, but what I struggle with is a side not appearing to put in. This may sound silly, but an easy try early and they seemed to think the game was done and they could coast.

So .. .. ..

Why the total change in approach at the breakdown?
Against the Highlanders they were agressive at the breakdown, why the next week stand off and have tackling practise, simply why no counter ruck? Why no clean out?
Why were the backs so lateral?
Who in the backs was to be direct?
Why kick it away in a game where you are struggling to get possession?

But to the Force congrats, they were better on the night, Graham has a well drilled side that plays to their abilities and strengths

Watching the second half (I missed the 1st) I was wondering the same thing about the clean outs/countering.

 

[Scarfman]

No Scarfman, this is a pretty stupid insult. First of all most teams in the competition would love the Waratahs' performance record. Making finals doesn't happen just by having lots of good players - ask the Blues!

The one problem is performing when they are favourites and the crowd doesn't care. Very, very difficult situation to motivate yourself to the same level as your opposition. The SFS was only 20% full and the atmosphere at those games is like a piece of lettuce flapping in the wind.

Don't imply the Tahs have an unfair advantage in "access" to good players. They developed and created the vast majority of their Wallabies: Polota-Nau, Benn Robinson, Rob Horne....

To be honest I think the Force are hugely underrated and it's no shame to lose to such a team.

I'm not trying to insult the Tahs, just trying to figure out why they tend to have solid, unspectacular ( ... mediocre? ... ) results every year. If you can show me my assumption is wrong, fair enough, otherwise we have to figure out what's going on. You mention the Blues - they have the 2nd best record in the S12/14/15 after the Crusaders. Bad example, bro. But if I were a Blues fan today I'd be asking the same question as me - why are you underperforming with your playing roster?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They are now 1-3 for a season that seemed full of promise, what with Foley's promotion, big Wallaby count, etc.

Is there any way of making this a "sticky post" and putting at the top of every thread involving the Tahs?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Godi hate the "waratahs management is cancer andmustchange blah blah blah" shit. The result was about the application of the playing group. They have proved they can play at a better standard, tonight they did not. It's not managements fault, what they have put on the fields a group of players capable of winning and a well trained coaching staff. The rest lies at the feet of this playing.

Over the last 40 years the playing group has been turned over quite a few times yet the results, in general terms, remain predictably and painfully the same.
There is a cultural issue and the only way to deal with it is to start again - either literally (a new franchise with no culture - unlikely I accept) or by having a clean out in which every job (even the unpaid intern's) is reviewed and their suitability to continue in that job decided as of now.
Bight the bullet Tahs.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hmmm so you had to already be a fan of the Tahs (enough to like them on FB) then download a form that required you to give them all your details, THEN only use said form at the gate (no pre-purchasing). Yup, that's effective marketing.

Assuming GA was the areas behind the goal posts, I wouldn't be too worried that those $10 tickets padded crowd numbers...there were two men and a dog down there!

has anyone seen the dog play?

 

[qwerty51]

Gagger, can I turn your focus momentarily to the Tahs' management and coaching. They are now 1-3 for a season that seemed full of promise, what with Foley's promotion, big Wallaby count, etc.

What Wallaby count? Mumm, the front row, Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne were the only Wallabies in the side last night. I don't think any Tahs fan actually thought highly of this season after all the injuries anyway.

 

[Scarfman]

Here's the Waratah's S12/14/15 history.


Year Pos
1996 7
1997 9
1998 6
1999 8
2000 9
2001 8
2002 2
2003 5
2004 8
2005 2
2006 3
2007 13
2008 2
2009 5
2010 3
2011 5

A hell of a lot of results in the mediocre range. Prior to 2002 we tended to come mid-field. After 2002 we tend to just make the finals. Overall (and appropriately enough), we have the 7th best record in the competition.

 

[qwerty51]

2008 was the only year they had a squad good enough to win, unfortunately they clicked too late in the season and had to play the Crusaders in Christchurch in the GF, just about impossible task if you ask me. Despite that they nearly won but then Beale and Vicks decided to get injured and ruined all hope of that. 2010-12 they've had the personell easily but unfortunately injuries have been cruel to them, every side has their poor losses.

 

[Scotty]

What Wallaby count? Mumm, the front row, Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne were the only Wallabies in the side last night. I don't think any Tahs fan actually thought highly of this season after all the injuries anyway.

And the way they are going, Mumm, Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are unlikely to be wallabies this year.

 

[qwerty51]

And the way they are going, Mumm, Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are unlikely to be wallabies this year.

Top prediction of Mumm considering he wasn't even close last year. Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will easily make the Wallabies 22.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No Scarfman, this is a pretty stupid insult. First of all most teams in the competition would love the Waratahs' performance record. Making finals doesn't happen just by having lots of good players - ask the Blues!

The one problem is performing when they are favourites and the crowd doesn't care. Very, very difficult situation to motivate yourself to the same level as your opposition. The SFS was only 20% full and the atmosphere at those games is like a piece of lettuce flapping in the wind.

Don't imply the Tahs have an unfair advantage in "access" to good players. They developed and created the vast majority of their Wallabies: Polota-Nau, Benn Robinson, Rob Horne....

To be honest I think the Force are hugely underrated and it's no shame to lose to such a team.

I thought Cyclo proved the correctness of Scarfy's point pretty conclusively.

 

[Scotty]

Top prediction of Mumm considering he wasn't even close last year. Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will easily make the Wallabies 22.

I was backing your point of view regarding high expectations of the tahs team. Surely even you see that both AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne are well down on form? Not to mention tpn as well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How

I was backing your point of view regarding high expectations of the tahs team. Surely even you see that both AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne are well down on form? Not to mention tpn as well.

How can you say Horne is down on form? the only form the guy has in his entire Superugby career is the admission form at St Vincent's casualty

 

[qwerty51]

I was backing your point of view regarding high expectations of the tahs team. Surely even you see that both AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne are well down on form? Not to mention tpn as well.

They're all proven performers, the Wallabies aren't being selected this week you know? Again more panic because of one performance.

 

[waratahjesus]

The performance was shit but the panic here is fever pitch.
In the end it was a one point loss.
What makes it so bad was the expectation and belief of us Tahs fans that are team is good enough to win. We have these expectations not because were Insane but because we have come to expect it from them due to there consistant good performances.

People will criticize that due to the teams "game plan" and that's fine that debate. But that debate is as a result of a consistently performing team.

 

[qwerty51]

Exactly people can't have it both ways, the reaction here is because of how good a team the Tahs are.

 

[Badger]

That crowd number is even more disastrous than it might appear. As Badger points out hugely discounted tickets were widely promoted and distributed. There is also the fact that a substantial proportion of the crowd are members from whom the Waratahs derive no income. Based on the evidence of previous years and taking into account the resort to discounting it would appear that a crowd roughly double that of tonight would be needed to achieve break even.

Quite apart from the competitive problems the team now faces, the administration may well incur crippling financial losses for the season.

Thanks for pointing out that the crowd includes the members, Bruce. Take the members out of the equation and the final number is closer to 10,000. The numbers at the Reds game were likely to be inflated as well since there was a promotion to get the school kids in. It would be sad to see an official crowd of less than 10,000 at a game this season if the Tahs' woes continue.

The inevitability of a financial loss for the season is probably a given, the only question is the extent of the loss for the year.

 

[waratahjesus]

Over the last 40 years the playing group has been turned over quite a few times yet the results, in general terms, remain predictably and painfully the same.
There is a cultural issue and the only way to deal with it is to start again - either literally (a new franchise with no culture - unlikely I accept) or by having a clean out in which every job (even the unpaid intern's) is reviewed and their suitability to continue in that job decided as of now.
Bight the bullet Tahs.

Fair enough, write three people you believe could conduct a review without bias or preconceived ideas that you would be happy to do such a thing.

 

[MrMouse]

has anyone seen the dog play?

He's hard on the ball, loves to chase and tackle, and his enthusiasm is unsurpassed. I think we have our newest openside!!!

 

[mark_s]

So firstly the positives for the tahs, Barnes played well we just need to get him into his best position (for the tahs anyway) of 10. The first try was well executed and we remarked at the cleverness of the rolling maul to depower the Force back row (which was really their only weapon against us). It seemed to be a good sign for the rest of the game, maybe the tahs did get a bit complacent - I don't think we tried another rolling maul for the rest of the game. I thought Dennis was the best of the pigs and it was his fourth good game in a row. We would be getting better results if his 7 counterparts played with the same consistency, application and discipline.

On the flip side, we keep relying on Sarel for almost all of our spark and he wasn't able to produce enough last night. We need more from our 10, and for the whole back line really. ITs hard to understand why Kingston, BFoley and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) aren't getting more ball as they look willing and likely. But is hard when they are consistently getting slow ball.

Which bring me to the pigs. IT was like our guys knew that we were in for a tough night at the rucks and decided it was easier to trust our defence and wait for errors rather than ruck/counterruck with venom. Problem was that the Force played low risk rugby so all it resulted in was lots of posession for the Force which they struggled to convert into points. I took a Canadian work colleague to the game, and had a lot of trouble explaining to him why I love rugby and keep turning up to watch each week.

Overall, I really wish the tahs would chance their arm more. I wouldn't mind losing games, even if our errors lead to tries for the opposition, if we just had a go a bit more. We still seem to be in the mindset of winning by not losing.

A few comments earlier about the crowd booing the tahs. I was where most of the crowd was and the only time anyone around us boo'd the tahs was late in the game when we kicked the ball away. The rest of the boos were targetted at specific decisions by the officials.

I can see the tahs have changed a few things to try and get more atmosphere at the game. I think it was an improvement over last year, but reality is that people won't pay $60 each, week after week, to watch that crap, and that comment would apply even if we had of snuck a win at the death last night. Nevertheless, I will be back next week and given its a day game, will be taking the wife and kids.