Waratahs V Force - Superugby Rd 4

[Piglet]

I don't know, but given the size of the SFS it was near enough to empty so that on every shot of the stands there were more empty seats than filled. So bad perhaps that Fox didn't broadcast the crowd figure that I can recall.

I was there and it looked pretty empty. My estimate was maybe 10k to 11k. Came in at about 14.5k, I think.

Anyway, that's the last Tahs game that I will go to for this season. Tired of spending good money to watch tripe that I could easily watch from home.

 

[Bruce Ross]

The official crowd number was 14,673. They didn't announce it until the closing stages of the game which was unusual...maybe someone was doing a recount.

They weren't expecting a big crowd as they were offering $10 general admission tickets during the week.

After what the Tahs served up, a fair few won't be returning too soon.

That crowd number is even more disastrous than it might appear. As Badger points out hugely discounted tickets were widely promoted and distributed. There is also the fact that a substantial proportion of the crowd are members from whom the Waratahs derive no income. Based on the evidence of previous years and taking into account the resort to discounting it would appear that a crowd roughly double that of tonight would be needed to achieve break even.

Quite apart from the competitive problems the team now faces, the administration may well incur crippling financial losses for the season.

 

[p.Tah]

I'm so pissed with this result. I'm not going to make excuses. It does my matter what I think the result is 21-20 and thats how it is.

From a development point of view. I like Toupu. I'll be interested in his progression.

.. And Tahs stop kicking it. If your goal is to get it back, you're failing...

 

[Gagger]

What can one say about that rubbish. The Force played a very limitted game well. The Force pigs won that game. I stand by the judgement that Graham is a shocking coach, the standard of backline play has been woeful under whatever team I have seen coached by him. With over 70% of the ball in the first half they offered no threat at all and the basic skills execution was terrible.
.

A coach is judged solely on his back line play? You seem to agree his "limited" forward play was very good

 

[Brumbies Guy]

The same limited forward play which managed to maintain that 70% possession in the first place..

 

[Newter]

What can one say about that rubbish. The Force played a very limitted game well. The Force pigs won that game. I stand by the judgement that Graham is a shocking coach, the standard of backline play has been woeful under whatever team I have seen coached by him. With over 70% of the ball in the first half they offered no threat at all and the basic skills execution was terrible..

Can you point to an example? In the games I've seen his backlines tend to win the gainline pretty regularly and build enough pressure with multiple phases to get tries or force a penalty. It takes to skill to achieve that consistently, which they do.

I get the feeling you want to see linebreaks and chip and chase and razzle dazzle. Coaches don't make that happen. Freak players do that. It's not Graham's fault there aren't that many Digby Ioanes and Kurtley Beales in Aus rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

Well, what Gnostic is saying is that the Force pack have no problem retaining possession, or even regaining possession from the opposition with their forward pack... but...

Their backline doesn't know what to do with it... and Richard Graham is supposed to be a backline/skills specialist...

And I don't think you can really credit Graham too much for the forward display...

 

[Moono75]

The Force did what they needed to get the result. Tupou looked promising. David Harvey sound but not flashy, solid. They got the result on the board and can build from there. Tahs may have been effected by the announcement of players contracts for next year who knows. Force weren't great but they were gutsy and that's all you can ask from your team.

 

[RedsHappy]

A coach is judged solely on his back line play? You seem to agree his "limited" forward play was very good

Gagger, can I turn your focus momentarily to the Tahs' management and coaching. They are now 1-3 for a season that seemed full of promise, what with Foley's promotion, big Wallaby count, etc.

Gnostic posited last year with some thoroughness a long post: 'The tragedy of the modern Tahs' wherein he argued that deep structural and management deficiencies underpinned the many long years of 'nearly men', and that grave commercial and fan support dangers faced the franchise post 2011 if radical changes in management and coaching practices were not immediately pursued.

You're a long standing Tahs supporter, as of tonight, do you think Gnostic had it wrong last year? And perhaps this year is a different, rebuilding year?

I especially ask as, manifestly, this issue of the Tahs' being able to fulfill their potential in business and championship terms is hugely important for the future prosperity - or otherwise - of Australian rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

It would really benefit the Force to now get some of those other backline players of theres in form like Nalaga, Shepherd and Cummins....

They can certainly improve from that performance.

It's still only round 4 and too early to write off some teams, or even start pencilling in other teams for final spots.

The Crusaders look like sleeping giants with McCaw and Carter to return... and the Tahs could bounce back with some changes in their side too...

As a Brumbies supporter I'm stoked by how they played against the Chiefs but anymore injuries could bring them back down again...

Still a few months to go...

 

[MrMouse]

I don't know, but given the size of the SFS it was near enough to empty so that on every shot of the stands there were more empty seats than filled. So bad perhaps that Fox didn't broadcast the crowd figure that I can recall.

It was a bit under 15,000. Accurate from what I could tell at the ground, unlike some figures in the past.

 

[MrMouse]

hugely discounted tickets were widely promoted

Bruce, where were these tickets promoted? I commented to someone after the game that I haven't seen any promotion for the Tahs of late. Nothing from ads on telly down to signs on the backs of cabs. I'm genuinely interested to know where it was promoted.

 

[Slim 293]

The Rebels aren't really getting that much attention down in Melbourne (which is to be expected from a city dominated by AFL... and then soccer a far distant second), but at least they're promoting the hell of the team...

 

[Moono75]

100% right Moono.

I won't let the victory tonight over the Tahs put the blinkers up on my eyes entirely. Red's Happy you have made some very good points and I agree with a lot of them. As a Force fan I'd like to see a sustainable and well thought out approach to ensuring we have a strong and viable team in the comp for the long term. The Reds are an example of a team that was a basket case for many years but have turned it around and become the model for Super Rugby success and you can only admire that.

 

[MrMouse]

The Rebels aren't really getting that much attention down in Melbourne (which is to be expected from a city dominated by AFL... and then soccer a far distant second), but at least they're promoting the hell of the team...

Yes! And not only that, they seem to be going out of their way to do it in a cooperative way with other codes - offering to supplement Melbourne's sport lovers with a delicious slice of rugby, rather than saying you must watch rugby and only rugby or you may not attend the rugby. Eg promoting going to the rugby and then an AFL game or vice versa. It's a clever strategy.

I know Sydney's a slightly different market but jeez, is it really that hard to promote a team? Really?

 

[waratahjesus]

Godi hate the "waratahs management is cancer andmustchange blah blah blah" shit. The result was about the application of the playing group. They have proved they can play at a better standard, tonight they did not. It's not managements fault, what they have put on the fields a group of players capable of winning and a well trained coaching staff. The rest lies at the feet of this playing.

 

[MrMouse]

This result was down to the playing group, beyond doubt. However:

1) The 'management' (coaches and administration) select the playing group. ie who to offer contracts. See other threads for more on that topic.
2) The 'management' (administration) are responsible for promoting the game, the team and the sport. They have failed on this front in so many ways it's hard to count them all.
3) The 'management' (administration) are responsible for the recruitment and retention of members. These numbers have been plummeting, and the administration is too quick to blame it on the football. Even the mid-80s Swans did a better job, and of all the codes in Sydney, the Tahs are worst at recruiting members and treating them well.
4) The 'management' are a visible and easy target for our frustration

 

[waratahjesus]

The promotion of the game comes down to another chicken and the egg situation though, with the declining crowds etc comes less revenue and less money to spend on such things.

As for the picking of the playing group, if the Tahs had played against the force like they did during the first three rounds they would have won, they didn't. Last week they lost by one while having a crack against the highlanders and there was alot of praise for there application, that application wasn't there tonight and that is the players and coaches not upper management that should be brought into question. The playing group assembled is better than the performance given.

 

[Nusadan]

Bruce, where were these tickets promoted? I commented to someone after the game that I haven't seen any promotion for the Tahs of late. Nothing from ads on telly down to signs on the backs of cabs. I'm genuinely interested to know where it was promoted.

Via their Facebook page:

http://www.waratahs.com.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=y4OVRoFo0Kw=&tabid=909

 

[MrMouse]

Via their Facebook page:

http://www.waratahs.com.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=y4OVRoFo0Kw=&tabid=909

Hmmm so you had to already be a fan of the Tahs (enough to like them on FB) then download a form that required you to give them all your details, THEN only use said form at the gate (no pre-purchasing). Yup, that's effective marketing.

Assuming GA was the areas behind the goal posts, I wouldn't be too worried that those $10 tickets padded crowd numbers...there were two men and a dog down there!