Waratahs v Brumbies trial in Mudgee

[Slim 293]

MST - right on the mark. The most disappointing aspect of the Brumbies' play is in the coaching. Bernie surely has to do something, but I think the influence of McKellar is what's killing any attacking play.

Bernie appears to be operating far better in an assistant role for the Wobs then as a Super Rugby head coach.........

They're going to need a coaching overhaul next year because they can't continue to play Jake White rugby with an inferior coaching staff and playing roster.

 

[mst]

MST - right on the mark. The most disappointing aspect of the Brumbies' play is in the coaching. Bernie surely has to do something, but I think the influence of McKellar is what's killing any attacking play.

Yep agreed. McKeller has had months to show off his capabilities and even said as much in recent media reports about it being part of showing off his head coaching capabilities (or not in this case). The same issues we have seen in the past even at NRC level are still showing through. In what will be an atrocity and potentially end the Brumbies, after going through the motions, I think he will end up with the HC job.

Overall, it blows my mind how 12 months on and with a lot of players changes it was like watching a repeat of 2016. The same patterns and the same issues. AMAZING!!!!!

I am also not sure what is going on with the defence? It seems we still can't defend out wide and always short a man at least. I suppose when you have 92,000 "utility backs" on your roster and prefer them over actual wingers it will have an impact. Amazing that 2 of the standout in the first trial were new blood wingers. Wonder what happened to them?

I see other people have noticed the issue with our tall timber and its immobility, general slowness and low impact. The reality is we can't run the combination of Fardy, Carter and Arnold (we saw this in the NRC). We struggle with a lack of support in both attack and defence and this "slowness" compounds the obsessive over-structured setup up that lead to being short most of the time. The Tahs were the opposite with good numbers in support in both attack and defence. (compare the breakdowns). Sadly out of the tall timber Carter provides the least - but he is captain so that locks it in an issue. The Tominatior provides more both in attack and defence atm.

Larkham has one glaring trait that is now becoming very apparent. Gibson to his credit not only has put his faith in his next gen, but he is willing to hand them the keys to let them have at it and show their stuff. Larkham can't seem to be able to do the same and defaults back to the past and we can also see that in his recruitment and style of play.

It's a shame we didn't see Hawera in the last 3rd with the young guns who were throwing it around a bit more towards the end that would give him more creative options.

I have said it before, but if it was anyone else except a "Brumbies son" this coaching situation would be absolutely unacceptable and intolerable.

 

[Froggy]

Thoroughly enjoyed the game, and while the Brumbies were well beaten, I didn't think it was as one-sided as the score indicated.
I don't think any of the young Tahs did their cause any harm, and their up and in your face defence was excellent. Their handling was a lot more accurate than the Brumbies, which was surprising as it was their first hit-out. I though Dempsey was outstanding, Toleafoa went okay, as did Wilkin, Gordon was sharp, Simone looked very good and Robinson is getting better and better at rugby. McCauley is tall kid, looks a good prospect.

In defence, the Brumbies don't seem to be trusting the man inside to make his tackle, you really have to at this level or you will constantly be gifting overlaps. I know Kyle Godwin had a good first year, but after a pretty pedestrian NRC he was fairly ordinary last night, I'm struggling to see how he is so highly rated.
I thought Powell was a little slow to deliver the ball, they will miss Cubelli if the injury proves long term.

 

[Micheal]

I see other people have noticed the issue with our tall timber and its immobility, general slowness and low impact. The reality is we can't run the combination of Fardy, Carter and Arnold (we saw this in the NRC). We struggle with a lack of support in both attack and defence and this "slowness" compounds the obsessive over-structured setup up that lead to being short most of the time. The Tahs were the opposite with good numbers in support in both attack and defence. (compare the breakdowns). Sadly out of the tall timber Carter provides the least - but he is captain so that locks it in an issue. The Tominatior provides more both in attack and defence atm.

I think this really nails the problems the Brumbies face in the pack (and perhaps the entire team) as you seem to stock a lot of very, very similar players in terms their skill sets and what they offer.

Who in the Brumbies pack is going to do this?

Who provides the go forward? The big shots in defence? The dynamism?

Instead you've got a forward pack that is composed entirely of hard workers with minimum impact, and there isn't much relief within your wider playing roster, which, to be brutally honest, I think isn't great.

Fardy // Carter // Arnold just doesn't have the right balance, and I don't think Staniforth is much better. He's not big enough to have the mobility and speed that he has. When you add Alcock, Smiler, Enever and Butler to the equation you really don't have too many options. Fakaosilea has to step up.

The backline has a similar problem - you have a bunch of utility backs (Ah Wong, Fainga'a, Dargaville, Godwin, Smith) who are solid players, but they are certainly lacking in x-factor and are very far from world-beaters.

They're also not the type of player to grab a game by the horns, dominate it and lead the team around much like a Folau, Foley, Hodge, DHP, Lance, Kerevi, Hunt, Cooper etc. could.

Cubelli added some much needed attacking spark last year, but he's likely to be gone for a while now, and I'm worried that the lack of dynamic and exciting players will lead the Brumbies to continue to play Jake-ball with a game plan thats dominated by territory and rolling mauls.

Fans won't sit in the Canberra cold for that.

Personally, I think 2017 will be a long year for the Brumbies and I worry about them moving forward.

With such a small market surely a poor 2017, on and off the field (crowd numbers and Super success), could cause them to be brought into the conversation about the Australian Super franchise that might be axed moving forward?

I'm hearing all the right things from the Force at the moment, and I can't say the same about the Brumbies.

They have history on their side but not much else.

 

[Micheal]

Not really...

The problem is that it was far too close to the Brumbies starting 23 to lose to a Waratahs team that was very, very far from their starting 23.

Who were you missing?

Sio is all I can really think of.

As I mentioned, the Tahs were missing:

Folau, Foley, Holloway, Hooper, Horne, Kepu, Mumm, Skelton, Phipps, TQN and Ta'avao.

Tom Robertson had really limited minutes.

You get those guys on the field and it could have been really, really ugly.

 

[Slim 293]

It's just a trial match.........

 

[Micheal]

It's just a trial match...

Thats kind of my point.

Its just a trial match for the Tahs, we played a B/C team. Theres a fair way we can go from here.

Where do the Brumbies go? Start Alexander, Ala'alatoa and Sio? Then what?

Regardless I'll stop being a negative nancy. I've made my point here and elsewhere.

 

[Slim 293]

Its just a trial match for the Tahs, we played a B/C team.

It was a trial match for both teams........

I'm not particularly focused on the personnel involved when there's so many other variables involved.

 

[mst]

^^^^is a valid point. Trial matches are to check / solidify combinations and plays, as well as try out things; takes chances etc.

On the Brumbies side of things its looked like a poorly coordinated rinse and repeat of 2016, with less combination and fluency than you get from a good under 9's team.

There were no real attacking chances taken and every 22 exit was a kick - they never chanced there hand.

The current Furby child's toy has a better evolutionary learning AI than the Brumbies coaches who appear to be stuck for idea in general. Its just sad atm.

****I have bitten my tongue as long as I could to see how long until someone else asked the question but I cant wait any longer.

Where is Jooste?

 

[Slim 293]

Yeah, I think there should be concern with the Brumbies style of play as they look to try and repeat what they did last year which didn't bring any success, and with the Tahs I thought that Gibson did a great job last year and not at all surprised by the skills on display..........

But as trials are mostly used to give players some match experience, experiment with new plays/combinations/patterns etc. I don't really get hung up too much on the personnel- I've seen far worse teams beat far better teams in these kinds of games.

 

[todd4]

It's just a trial match...

If I remember correctly last year the Force smashed the Hurricanes in a trial match. That was a pretty good indicator of the season ahead , not.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm hearing all the right things from the Force at the moment, and I can't say the same about the Brumbies.

Who is propping up the force, remind me?
You can only sell your IP once

 

[todd4]

Who is propping up the force, remind me?
You can only sell your IP once

WA State Govt. 'Road Safety' campaign sponsorship 1.5 million for 2017.

 

[mudskipper]

I have never known the Brumbies to use a trail match to just win, they have always looked to test plays & players.

Must say thou good sign for the Tahs... and great it was in Mudgee too...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

WA State Govt. 'Road Safety' campaign sponsorship 1.5 million for 2017.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...e/news-story/22beb2a88c0918d22a5b466bd5d167a0

its a slippery slope they are on

 

[cyclopath]

Trials (for fans) are good for a little pissing competition, but that's about it. The big issue for most Aust franchises will be how they adapt to injuries and a challenge to the roster. All have Achilles' heels in certain positions. Some have an entire Achilles' lower limb. We'll see.

 

[todd4]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...e/news-story/22beb2a88c0918d22a5b466bd5d167a0

its a slippery slope they are on

This is not the right thread for this but I'll just say I can't see past the pay wall.

 

[Hawko]

Trials (for fans) are good for a little pissing competition, but that's about it. The big issue for most Aust franchises will be how they adapt to injuries and a challenge to the roster. All have Achilles' heels in certain positions. Some have an entire Achilles' lower limb. We'll see.

Agreed. But given that it was the back-up players who went really well, I reckon that I'm a whole lot more confident about our back-ups being able to slot in if required. Some of those back-ups are going to put huge pressure on the starting 15 by the look of things. The most obvious player who can't afford a bad game is Phipps, but plenty of the others need to really step up too.

It puts Gibson in a great place.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Certainly, it was just a trial match and history will show that the Brumbies lose more trials than they win, even in their best years, but there was such a chasm between the two sides yesterday that I am not sure at all that the Brumbies have the wherewithal to inspire very much hope for this season.

Only thing to be said for the representative players sent out in this game is that it was their first run of the year after a longer than most others' off season. In retrospect, that could have been a contributing factor to their pretty woeful display.

However, the lack of enterprise in their play was very reminiscent of last year and doesn't fill me with confidence for the Super Rugby season.

We, the fans, can see there's a lot wrong with the style of play in recent years. Why does it escape the coaches?

 

[Twoilms]

With such a small market surely a poor 2017, on and off the field (crowd numbers and Super success), could cause them to be brought into the conversation about the Australian Super franchise that might be axed moving forward?

I'm hearing all the right things from the Force at the moment, and I can't say the same about the Brumbies.

They have history on their side but not much else.

Every club goes through peaks and troughs. Brumbies have lost some key players and will have to struggle for a while before they come good again. Which is fine. Tah's are mid-table mediocrity every third or so season. They won't axe the Brumbies.