Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
You're point was to suggest our system had created a JOC (James O'Connor), beale, and cooper who rely on others to facilitate so they can exploit their x-factor was it not?
Anyways to get back OT, yes great post Gnostic.
Waratahs - post-season think
- Thread starter Scarfman
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You're point was to suggest our system had created a JOC (James O'Connor), beale, and cooper who rely on others to facilitate so they can exploit their x-factor was it not?
Anyways to get back OT, yes great post Gnostic.
rugbyisfun
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Anyone read Matt Burkes article today? Isn't he still employed by the Tahs? Some ridiculous statements made by the bloke
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I started to read Growden's... made me want to vomit.
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
It was pure shit.
HE doesn't even know what he's trying to say.
Ladies and Gentlemen, what we have witnessed this year was a ground breaking social experiment on the effects of a leadership vacuum, of a magnitude that you won't even find in outer space.
Witness:
I can't help feel though that leadership clusterfucks like the one described above don't all come down to one man and that these bizarre symptoms are more likely to come from some de facto committee - made up of board members, CEO, coaches - and god knows who else - sticking fingers in pies.
But, let's just say for a minute that actually ALL of the above was just down to Foley - he was given free reign and was backed to the hilt. In this case we are now looking at a Board that has seen all of this, reviewed it (with 2 games left to go).........
AND DONE NOTHING.
Whichever way you slice it, there's dysfunction from the very top down and before you take a broom through players or even coaches, you need to start upstairs. Otherwise we'll just end up with the same shit, different faces.
The ultimate tell tale sign of all of this is the players disinterest. Why bother when things are so fucked up top? is the inevitable thought that creeps in to any workplace in such a situation.
Witness:
- The gun for hire that you select as captain when he played a total of 80 minutes all of last year and everyone in the biz knows is crocked.
- The 8 man leadership group that you don't select the replacement captain from.
- The marquee player that you don't play
- The palpable lack of fitness
- That you have injury magnets like Barnes, Vickerman, TPN, Palu, Horne and Elsom in your side and yet claim you've been hijacked by unforeseeable injuries due to unreasonable work loads
- The complete lack of any discernible game plans
I can't help feel though that leadership clusterfucks like the one described above don't all come down to one man and that these bizarre symptoms are more likely to come from some de facto committee - made up of board members, CEO, coaches - and god knows who else - sticking fingers in pies.
But, let's just say for a minute that actually ALL of the above was just down to Foley - he was given free reign and was backed to the hilt. In this case we are now looking at a Board that has seen all of this, reviewed it (with 2 games left to go).........
AND DONE NOTHING.
Whichever way you slice it, there's dysfunction from the very top down and before you take a broom through players or even coaches, you need to start upstairs. Otherwise we'll just end up with the same shit, different faces.
The ultimate tell tale sign of all of this is the players disinterest. Why bother when things are so fucked up top? is the inevitable thought that creeps in to any workplace in such a situation.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Everytime I read a statement that talks of player disinterest, all it does is fill me with hope, if they are really disinterested and have been in a position with 20 to go to win every game, imagine what just a little interest will result in next year.
W
What2040
Guest
agree but how do you fix it !!!
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Nope, you can coach a team to play better patterns/take better options.
You can't coach desire,anyone who you think might have turned it up this year you should get rid of. Regardless of reputation or ability.
Let's start next year with a bunch of guys who get shitty when they lose as a first step.
scaraby
Ron Walden (29)
I remember when the Tahs were considered the fittest and best defensive side in Super Rugby....what happened? We had a young Beale and Burgo who would create moments of brilliance and occasional madness and we would scream in joy and frustration..but we screamed.. We decided to dump a coach because he could only finish second or third.(Management )We got Burgo, Beale to the peak and forgot to reward them. (Management)We retired the best captain we've had but forgot to resign his replacement who went to QLD under OUR old coach for next to nothing. (Management)We finally fixed the tight five but forgot that you need people behind them. We were offered JOC (James O'Connor)..Didnt want to bid?(Management) How to fix it? Specialist defensive coaching(Muggleton?) this would obviously combine conditioning or its a waste of time. Get Beale back or JOC (James O'Connor) or someone of that caliber..watch the AACs Tom Kingstons ,Turners or Mitchells with a decent playmaker inside them...look at the Rebels!! Get Burgo back or find someone who can create an option at 9 so your 10 and 12 have space. Put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back at 13 ,Barnes at 12 Foley at 15. We have a gun 7 next year and a great back up. As a great coach of mine once said."boys if you keep them to 0 even you guys can score 1 try." Everyone here knows how to fix the problem its not a hard fix. As for attitude if you seriously think that the Tahs don't have the desire to win a super 15 then you haven't been a part of the system. Next season they will have less pressure than ever to perform because the public will be happy just to make the semis..(until semi time). What throws us all is the blind stupidity to let all your playmakers go without replacing them...especially in KBs case who should have been locked in for life after being part of the system since he was 15. The players are confused not disinterested ....we have 4 halfbacks next year and no 10s?????.....stress is an evil animal. I'm sorry but I agree with others who say we need a manager at the top who manages..suggestions?..David Gallop?
Torn Hammy
Johnnie Wallace (23)
I thought that the forwards went well enough to win the competition. The set pieces were good and they often provided more than an even share of the ball. With the addition of Hooper and Vickerman they will be very strong.
The backs however to me seemed like a hastily bung together barbarians' side. Their attack was pedestrian and predictable and I couldn't believe how players whom I thought very highly of, delivered very bad seasons. I was hoping for lots of career defining games from Carter, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Kingston but was very disappointed in the execution of their excellent skills. I loved how Pretorius took on the big blokes and thought Foley showed enough to build on.
I think Gaffney needs to go. Last year the backs were poor, this year they were a rabble.
And while it is hard to say, I think Berrick Barnes needs to go as well. His legs and decision making have slowed, and he is taking time and opportunity away from his outside men. His jinking and linebreaks are closed down quickly and his passing and kicking are a bit "paint by numbers" and premeditated by nature. Hard call though.
The backs however to me seemed like a hastily bung together barbarians' side. Their attack was pedestrian and predictable and I couldn't believe how players whom I thought very highly of, delivered very bad seasons. I was hoping for lots of career defining games from Carter, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Kingston but was very disappointed in the execution of their excellent skills. I loved how Pretorius took on the big blokes and thought Foley showed enough to build on.
I think Gaffney needs to go. Last year the backs were poor, this year they were a rabble.
And while it is hard to say, I think Berrick Barnes needs to go as well. His legs and decision making have slowed, and he is taking time and opportunity away from his outside men. His jinking and linebreaks are closed down quickly and his passing and kicking are a bit "paint by numbers" and premeditated by nature. Hard call though.
The biggest problem the Waratahs had in my opinion was major lapses in concentration and simple errors which resulted in conceeding points. It always felt like the Waratahs had to work much harder to score points than their opposition did.
If you just look at the Reds game, the first try was due to a stupid defensive play by TPN. He should have had Higginbotham covered fairly comfortably. We then let in a try from a 5m lineout with an overthrow. Again, not something that should happen. Another try was scored after Barnes threw a shocking pass, Mitchell dropped it and the Reds picked it up and scored.
If you take those errors out of the game, we might have won.
Alcock should have scored from his chargedown but he got a bad bounce and then had the ball kicked out of his hands. If he'd just kept it at his chest and gone to ground he would have almost certainly scored. It seems like this sort of thing happened a lot this season when things went wrong as a matter of course. In a normal season I feel like Alcock would have scored this try every time.
Super Rugby is a close competition and if you concede easy points you will lose most games like the Tahs did this year. Fitness, leadership and concentration seem to be the three areas which need dramatic improvement. Every game there was a period when the Tahs would just lose the plot and concede a bunch of points on the back of poor decisions, schoolboy errors and lack of concentration.
If you just look at the Reds game, the first try was due to a stupid defensive play by TPN. He should have had Higginbotham covered fairly comfortably. We then let in a try from a 5m lineout with an overthrow. Again, not something that should happen. Another try was scored after Barnes threw a shocking pass, Mitchell dropped it and the Reds picked it up and scored.
If you take those errors out of the game, we might have won.
Alcock should have scored from his chargedown but he got a bad bounce and then had the ball kicked out of his hands. If he'd just kept it at his chest and gone to ground he would have almost certainly scored. It seems like this sort of thing happened a lot this season when things went wrong as a matter of course. In a normal season I feel like Alcock would have scored this try every time.
Super Rugby is a close competition and if you concede easy points you will lose most games like the Tahs did this year. Fitness, leadership and concentration seem to be the three areas which need dramatic improvement. Every game there was a period when the Tahs would just lose the plot and concede a bunch of points on the back of poor decisions, schoolboy errors and lack of concentration.
scaraby
Ron Walden (29)
think thats fitness again?..Phil Waugh had that unique ability to choose correctly when out on his feet...
I think it is a multitude of things. Phil Waugh was an excellent leader and I think he was really good at keeping everyone focused. I think lack of leadership and fitness is combining to cause the massive lapses in concentration.
It was a shocking pass. I don't think a lack of fitness caused him to drop it.
It was a really poor throw by TPN but again I think better concentration could have avoided the try. A defender could easily move up to field an overthrow or the player at the back of the lineout could backpedal to cover an overthrow. Our defence should be 5m closer to the action than the opposition so we should get there first.
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
Burke should not be a rugby journalist.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Actually, TPN was poor the whole Reds game apart from a few decent carries. Apart from his mistakes for the tries, his midfield defence was poor as he let a few guys run past him.
There was a real lack of urgency in the midfield defence for the Tahs. In the past the Tahs have had great scrambling defence and a decent kick chase, this year they seemed to have less urgency. I remember being impressed by the desperation of the Tahs in defence, quite often a team makes a break and more Tahs desperately cover it than attackers support. Not this year.
There was a real lack of urgency in the midfield defence for the Tahs. In the past the Tahs have had great scrambling defence and a decent kick chase, this year they seemed to have less urgency. I remember being impressed by the desperation of the Tahs in defence, quite often a team makes a break and more Tahs desperately cover it than attackers support. Not this year.
Greg Mumm has clearly struggled coaching the defence. The difference between this season and several previous years is stark.
Gaffney and Mumm would be the first two coaches I would let go.
Gaffney and Mumm would be the first two coaches I would let go.
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