Waratahs 2025

[molman]

Watching the Force game last night and seeing Donaldson put in some deft touches got me thinking about Will Harrison who I always thought looked better than Donaldson in the NRC days.

Anyone seen much of him for the Kintetsu Liners? Curious how he's going and wonder if well ever see him back playing in Australia. A player who I always felt never reached his potential, though at 25yrs I guess there is still time. Be interesting to see how things might have turned out if he hadn't picked up the injury.

It's crazy to think the Tahs had him, Donaldson and Edmed all on the books at one point. Always felt it was a shame they lost Donaldson.

 

[wamberal99]

Watching the Force game last night and seeing Donaldson put in some deft touches got me thinking about Will Harrison who I always thought looked better than Donaldson in the NRC days.

Harrison looked too small.

 

[molman]

Harrison looked too small.

Tom Lynagh is reported at 178m, Will Harrison 177m. Noah Lolesio is only 180m. Hardly much taller.

This guy called Damian McKenzie is only 175m and he seems to go alright. In fact, I sometimes feel like McKenzie's ability to evade is in part due to his stature (coupled with agility/speed).

Guess what I'm saying is, I don't think he was/is too small.

 

[TSR]

Watching the Force game last night and seeing Donaldson put in some deft touches got me thinking about Will Harrison who I always thought looked better than Donaldson in the NRC days.

Anyone seen much of him for the Kintetsu Liners? Curious how he's going and wonder if well ever see him back playing in Australia. A player who I always felt never reached his potential, though at 25yrs I guess there is still time. Be interesting to see how things might have turned out if he hadn't picked up the injury.

It's crazy to think the Tahs had him, Donaldson and Edmed all on the books at one point. Always felt it was a shame they lost Donaldson.

Watching Donaldson last night I was reminded when guys like he & Lolesio started out and one the coaches (McKellar I think) urged everyone to be patient and give these guys 3-4 years to develop.

Donaldson look in control and comfortable with pulling the strings and with good variety in his game and generally good decisions. Lynagh too was excellent and the Reds really missed him in the second half. 100% from the tee for both of them can’t be overstated either - notably both kicking goals from wide out.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Sometimes blokes need a change. Would he be playing like he is currently if still at the Tahs and we gave him time? Probably not. I wasn’t disappointed to see him go but I’m happy to see his for Aus Rugby.

We really have a contest of who can be at their peak of 7.5/10 to get the Wallabies job. There is no elite playmaker in the country.

 

[wamberal99]

We really have a contest of who can be at their peak of 7.5/10 to get the Wallabies job. There is no elite playmaker in the country.

The Reds have the two best IMHO.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Same ceiling as the others but probably the highest floor. Very consistent whereas Donaldson can give you a good performance but also have a shit the bed moment or game.

 

[molman]

Watching Donaldson last night I was reminded when guys like he & Lolesio started out and one the coaches (McKellar I think) urged everyone to be patient and give these guys 3-4 years to develop.

Donaldson look in control and comfortable with pulling the strings and with good variety in his game and generally good decisions. Lynagh too was excellent and the Reds really missed him in the second half. 100% from the tee for both of them can’t be overstated either - notably both kicking goals from wide out.

I feel like some people forget how young these players are and there's been this odd desire in AU Rugby to inject the next new player into the role. We haven't been great at development at times.

Lynagh at only 21yrs I feel is playing a very solid game. Donaldson is just starting to play a more consistent and rounded game at 25yrs. Noah I always felt got injected a little early into the role with the Wallabies back when he was 20yrs old. It's probably only been the last year where he's started to look fully comforable/assured. It really highlighted the poor planning and development we had in AU after the Foley, O'Connor, Leali'ifano, Cooper collection had moved on. Waratahs in particular with the way they managed Mack Mason and lack of depth outside Foley was a real low point. Unlike countries like Ireland which can develop a player like Prendergast because they have him surrounded by so much experience, consistency, systems, we really asked a lot of these young players.

Bringing it back to the Waratahs, Edmed has been showing some good progress. I've noticed that his comms has improved a lot in these two openning games. He looks a lot more confident in directing play. His kicking whilst not at good as Lynagh or Donaldsons has been reasonably solid. With a new attach coach, so many new players, it'll be interesting how long it takes for him and the team to find their groove.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Age thing is huge. We see it in so many sports but Rugby has been hamstrung by a recruitment/retention problem so we play guys earlier than ideal.

Makes Isaac Lucas such an interesting player at 26. I’m reluctant to just call him a gun because the Japanese comp does allow guys to shine who are on the edge of good.

 

[TSR]

I feel like some people forget how young these players are and there's been this odd desire in AU Rugby to inject the next new player into the role. We haven't been great at development at times.

Lynagh at only 21yrs I feel is playing a very solid game. Donaldson is just starting to play a more consistent and rounded game at 25yrs. Noah I always felt got injected a little early into the role with the Wallabies back when he was 20yrs old. It's probably only been the last year where he's started to look fully comforable/assured. It really highlighted the poor planning and development we had on AU after the Foley, O'Connor, Leali'ifano, Cooper collection had moved on. Waratahs in particular with the way they managed Mack Mason and lack of depth outside Foley was a real low point. Unlike countries like Ireland which can develop a player like Prendergast because they have him surrounded by so much experience, consistency, systems, we really asked a lot of these young players.

Bringing it back to the Waratahs, Edmed has been showing some good progress. I've noticed that his comms has improved a lot in these two openning games. He looks a lot more confident in directing play. His kicking whilst not at good as Lynagh or Donaldsons has been reasonably solid. With a new attach coach, so many new players, it'll be interesting how long it takes for him and the team to find their groove.

Lolesio really has experienced the highs and lows of it.

When he was thrown in we really had no other viable or more deserving option. But he definitely wasn’t ready for it and Rennie cast him aside pretty easily. Still - along the way he has accumulated invaluable test experience. Regardless of present form he remains in the box seat to wear 10 v the Lions and should get plenty of chance to show he too has developed into a test level 10 soon enough.

But Donaldsonand Lynagh are doing the best they can to show Schmidt he has options. I’m not really sure how Edmed fits into this but he’s now got enough time and experience behind him to make a run for the 10 shirt if he’s good enough.

 

[molman]

Age thing is huge. We see it in so many sports but Rugby has been hamstrung by a recruitment/retention problem so we play guys earlier than ideal.

Makes Isaac Lucas such an interesting player at 26. I’m reluctant to just call him a gun because the Japanese comp does allow guys to shine who are on the edge of good.

Knowing Eddie, he'll probably be as likely to be lacing up for Japan next to Dylan Riley and Ben Gunter than in a Aussie team. He can't be far off eligibility.

 

[Yoda]

Sometimes blokes need a change. Would he be playing like he is currently if still at the Tahs and we gave him time? Probably not. I wasn’t disappointed to see him go but I’m happy to see his for Aus Rugby.

We really have a contest of who can be at their peak of 7.5/10 to get the Wallabies job. There is no elite playmaker in the country.

Ghost. Donno has flourished since leaving the Tahs. I put that down to Cron being a better coach. Getting full games at 10, not on bench or playing at 15 on a rotating basis. Who was at the Tahs when Harrison and Donaldson were there? Gibson… Penney and Coleman. They definitely didn’t help in back play that’s for sure. Wonder how much influence Leon MacDonald has on Donaldson now? Handy coach to help out at the Force. Both Lynagh and Donaldson are playing well so far. Hopefully Noah gets back and plays well too. Better for Australia with Lions coming. Goal kicking from both so far has been outstanding.

 

[molman]

Lolesio really has experienced the highs and lows of it.

When he was thrown in we really had no other viable or more deserving option. But he definitely wasn’t ready for it and Rennie cast him aside pretty easily. Still - along the way he has accumulated invaluable test experience. Regardless of present form he remains in the box seat to wear 10 v the Lions and should get plenty of chance to show he too has developed into a test level 10 soon enough.

But Donaldsonand Lynagh are doing the best they can to show Schmidt he has options. I’m not really sure how Edmed fits into this but he’s now got enough time and experience behind him to make a run for the 10 shirt if he’s good enough.

I think for 10's it's sometime hard to seperate their individual performances from the collective team at times. The Force pack in particular have really stepped up and Donaldson is looking a lot better I suspect in part because of the collective. Lynagh has a lot of consistency and continutiy around him. Some of the Tah's breakdown work isn't where it needs to be which likely means Edmed is working with slower ball coupled with a number of new faces around him meaning that patterns and plays are less intuitive.

 

[TSR]

Given this is a Tahs thread I’ll push the conversation back that way. I feel like we are moving towards having much better options at 10, but 9 I actually think we’re regressing. And I struggle to see any appeal in Jake Gordon at the moment. I know he had 1-2 good test last year but mostly thought he looks like a guy who has peaked and is on his way down (but the other options weren’t killing it either). It hasn’t always been this way and, in fact, I think for years Gordon at Super level has been as good as anyone and often better. Interested in the thoughts of others. Does he just need more from his pack, has he clocked off or am I being harsh?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Given this is a Tahs thread I’ll push the conversation back that way. I feel like we are moving towards having much better options at 10, but 9 I actually think we’re regressing. And I struggle to see any appeal in Jake Gordon at the moment. I know he had 1-2 good test last year but mostly thought he looks like a guy who has peaked and is on his way down (but the other options weren’t killing it either). It hasn’t always been this way and, in fact, I think for years Gordon at Super level has been as good as anyone and often better. Interested in the thoughts of others. Does he just need more from his pack, has he clocked off or am I being harsh?

I think the Tahs should really focus on getting minutes into Wilson and figuring out if he is the guy which I think he has it in him but they need to find out as there are very good young 9s in the system below (Sharples, Blank and Grover in the Aus18s that decisions need to be made on signings and who the Brumbies end up with who will end up the one we should have kept.

While they are 2/2 the idea of getting bulk mins in younger guys wouldn’t be front of mind but by mid year it may be a different story.

 

[Yoda]

Given this is a Tahs thread I’ll push the conversation back that way. I feel like we are moving towards having much better options at 10, but 9 I actually think we’re regressing. And I struggle to see any appeal in Jake Gordon at the moment. I know he had 1-2 good test last year but mostly thought he looks like a guy who has peaked and is on his way down (but the other options weren’t killing it either). It hasn’t always been this way and, in fact, I think for years Gordon at Super level has been as good as anyone and often better. Interested in the thoughts of others. Does he just need more from his pack, has he clocked off or am I being harsh?

TSR. “Much better options at 10”!! Edmed and Bowen as opposed to Donno and Harrison? You’re kidding. Classic.

 

[molman]

Given this is a Tahs thread I’ll push the conversation back that way. I feel like we are moving towards having much better options at 10, but 9 I actually think we’re regressing. And I struggle to see any appeal in Jake Gordon at the moment. I know he had 1-2 good test last year but mostly thought he looks like a guy who has peaked and is on his way down (but the other options weren’t killing it either). It hasn’t always been this way and, in fact, I think for years Gordon at Super level has been as good as anyone and often better. Interested in the thoughts of others. Does he just need more from his pack, has he clocked off or am I being harsh?

Truthfully, probably a little hard to say without looking closely. Schmidt would have more insight on core aspects, such has how quickly the 9's are getting to rucks, speed of clearing, the quality of the ball/passing when they do, their option taking of who they choose to hit, the quality of their kicks, defence and tackles made. They'd know what they want and have likely communicated such to the 9's who are likely in contention.

I feel like Gordon has made a reasonable start to the Super Rugby season. He has a nice pass (better than Tates), his kicking is good, he generally looks to be taking the right options, sees space and takes chances when they're there. For example the little kick over the top in the Tahs v Drua game that resulted in the chase down by Jorgensen, try to Gleeson was him seeing the space. He is also generally solid in defence and provides leadership in guiding the team.

So, no. I'm not sure he is on the downhill. I think him and Tate have both put in pretty solid performances in these openning games.

I'm less sure of the other 9's, but I'd have to look at them more closely. Fines was probably the disappointment (considering he was in the Wallabies squad). I'm not sure if he was overplaying as you sometimes see from players coming off the bench trying to push a case, but some of his option taking was poor. White was pretty solid and Lonergan has been ok. His kicking needs a little work (not just conversions, but in game), but his passing and option taking is good. He hit Frost with a nice switch of direction pass to open their scoring against the Chiefs. I also noticed that he (Lonergan) looks to be doing a lot less step passing with some nice balls from the base.

For the Tahs, it's been great to see Jack Grant and Teddy Wilson also get some time, even when the game has very much been in the balance.

 

[TSR]

TSR. “Much better options at 10”!! Edmed and Bowen as opposed to Donno and Harrison? You’re kidding. Classic.

Sorry Yoda - my comment above isn’t well written. Despite my opening line, when I was saying better options at 10, regressing at 9 I was meaning at Wallaby level and was referring to the improvement in Donaldson & Lynagh. Badly written in my part - especially given it is the Tahs thread.

 

[Hogan]

Sometimes blokes need a change. Would he be playing like he is currently if still at the Tahs and we gave him time? Probably not. I wasn’t disappointed to see him go but I’m happy to see his for Aus Rugby.

We really have a contest of who can be at their peak of 7.5/10 to get the Wallabies job. There is no elite playmaker in the country.

I can’t imagine Donaldson is losing any sleep over leaving the Tahs. He’s currently playing under a quality coach who seems to know how to get the best out of him. And he’s regularly playing 80 mins in his preferred position at 10 in a team with an expansive, attacking game plan which certainly suits Donaldson’s instinctive running game. He’s been great to watch. As has Pietsch. The change is doing them the world of good.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I can’t imagine Donaldson is losing any sleep over leaving the Tahs. He’s currently playing under a quality coach who seems to know how to get the best out of him. And he’s regularly playing 80 mins in his preferred position at 10 in a team with an expansive, attacking game plan which certainly suits Donaldson’s instinctive running game. He’s been great to watch. As has Pietsch. The change is doing them the world of good.

He's also getting paid more money than the Tahs were offering, which becomes significantly more with an RA top-up.

Happy as a clam