Waratahs 2025

[Agent]

He wouldn't be the worst candidate out there but I'd pass on HC but love to see him as a Forwards coach if he wanted it. Doubt he'd want it for some reason. I'd love Thorn to be involved in the U20s, 18s along with people like Fisher. Setting standards and teaching fundementals.


I think any good coach right now would be rightfully concerned about the disconnect. I think Cheika can be a guy who is bigger than that to get the ball rolling. If they could get the house together over a couple of years with the intent to then bring in another coach it could work. Is Chieka too big for a transition?? He'd have to be involved in it to not trash it I feel.


Cheika came out of that world initially but yes I agree this organisation needs someone who has run a pro side before. I don't think its the place right now for the likes of Hoiles, Mowen, Gilmore.

When you consider budget we are very likely to have the names like Tim Sampson get pushed quite hard.

Cheika as HC and Hoiles / Gilmore as assistants could work.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Yet to be shown Hoiles is deserving of it though. He wants to be a coach but he's basically DC lite right now. Yeah he won a Shute Shield. Was DCs assistant at LA under Frier as the GM. They folded when he was LA HC and came back and took the Randwick job.

Gilmore gets spoken of highly but I personally want it all cleared out.

Who are the genuine options including internal options?

- Cheika
- Millard
- Gilmore
- Grey
- Sampson
- Hewat
- Friend
- Thorn

Aussie options off the top of my head.

 

[Ignoto]

I think there's room for Chieka or Grey to be a "Manager" of sorts to support Gilmore or even a wild option in Toutai Kefu.

 

[RugbyReg]

Matt Cockbain now available too.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Has Kefu had much pro exposure besides Tonga? Think the Tahs need someone who's been through all the bullshit.

I like Cockbain as an option. Has been at the Tahs before, albeit with Rob Penny. But has a couple of stints at the top of a Club.

I personally like Billy Millard. Has been in all positions from Shute Shield, Aus 7s, Rebels, USA, HC & DOR at Harlequins. If you want someone who has seen it and dealt with it he's safe. 20 years in professional coaching can't be underestimated. Kiss has brought this steadiness and confidence to QLD.

 

[Wilson]

Yet to be shown Hoiles is deserving of it though. He wants to be a coach but he's basically DC lite right now. Yeah he won a Shute Shield. Was DCs assistant at LA under Frier as the GM. They folded when he was LA HC and came back and took the Randwick job.

Gilmore gets spoken of highly but I personally want it all cleared out.

Who are the genuine options including internal options?

- Cheika
- Millard
- Gilmore
- Grey
- Sampson
- Hewat
- Friend
- Thorn

Aussie options off the top of my head.

Raiwailui looks like the star candidate for mine, assuming you can get him off of world rugby. Looks like the right mix of experience and ability to build something long term, rather than the quick fix gamble with little hope of long term planning that Chieka represents.

Otherwise John Manenti has come up a bit as an option post olympics, also Daniel Halangahu and Brock James.

That said there should probably be some options other than Australians, particularly if the tahs want an experienced head.

 

[Ignoto]

Has Kefu had much pro exposure besides Tonga? Think the Tahs need someone who's been through all the bullshit.

Pulling this directly from Wiki

2010–2011 Sunshine Coast Stingrays
2011–2012 Tonga (assistant)
2012–2016 Kubota Spears
2016–2023 Tonga
2016 Queensland Country

With the addition of Tonga in the 2023 RWC. While not strictly professional he was coaching school boys with his brother (and one of the QPR followers can correct me if Ive miss-remembered on whether he was Souths coach?)

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Raiwailui looks like the star candidate for mine, assuming you can get him off of world rugby. Looks like the right mix of experience and ability to build something long term, rather than the quick fix gamble with little hope of long term planning that Chieka represents.

Otherwise John Manenti has come up a bit as an option post olympics, also Daniel Halangahu and Brock James.

That said there should probably be some options other than Australians, particularly if the tahs want an experienced head.

Certainly plenty of international options my mind just goes through the Aussie ones since I don't see a whole lot of Japanese and Prem Rugby where they are mostly. Can't imagine many international options will be affordable either... Kind of banking on some Aussie interest to come home.

I like Halangahu and thought he would have been good as the Wallabies assistant but didn't he recently say he is pretty tied into the Blues now which either tells me he has been ear marked in NZ for things or he wouldn't move for less than a HC role...

Pulling this directly from Wiki


With the addition of Tonga in the 2023 RWC. While not strictly professional he was coaching school boys with his brother (and one of the QPR followers can correct me if Ive miss-remembered on whether he was Souths coach?)

I guess you don't know unless he has a go but besides the Kubota stint it's fairly lean in full running of a side. The international stuff seems like a very different environment especially with Tonga when it's all in for short periods of time. I can't look at Schools stuff as serious as it is and they are professional, it's just too different. If we did then Brian Smith from Scots becomes an option (which he's not) but he's been around plenty of pro clubs.

 

[Rob42]

There was some rubbish propaganda being perpetuated that the coach of the Waratahs needed to have a connection to the Shute Shield to really understand NSW rugby.

Turns out the coach really needs experience in professional high performance environments and not a semi amateur one.

I agree in theory, but in the bullshit realpolitik of Sydney rugby, someone with at least some connection to Shute Shield will get a smoother ride when the inevitable bumps in the road arrive.

 

[Ignoto]

Certainly plenty of international options my mind just goes through the Aussie ones since I don't see a whole lot of Japanese and Prem Rugby where they are mostly. Can't imagine many international options will be affordable either... Kind of banking on some Aussie interest to come home.

I like Halangahu and thought he would have been good as the Wallabies assistant but didn't he recently say he is pretty tied into the Blues now which either tells me he has been ear marked in NZ for things or he wouldn't move for less than a HC role...


I guess you don't know unless he has a go but besides the Kubota stint it's fairly lean in full running of a side. The international stuff seems like a very different environment especially with Tonga when it's all in for short periods of time. I can't look at Schools stuff as serious as it is and they are professional, it's just too different. If we did then Brian Smith from Scots becomes an option (which he's not) but he's been around plenty of pro clubs.

That's fair ghost.

I think the way the Waratahs structure their coaching team is a good way for RA to put in place the model they would like to see for the future pathway's for Australian coaches.

That is, a more senior figure that sits above the coaching staff that supports a less experience coaching team.

It's something I could see working well for the Reds as well when a replacement is considered for Les (i.e. Les would move aside to the senior role and support the next generation come through).

 

[stillmissit]

I agree in theory, but in the bullshit realpolitik of Sydney rugby, someone with at least some connection to Shute Shield will get a smoother ride when the inevitable bumps in the road arrive.

HI Rob, I thought DC was supposed to be that guy and he certainly pulled plenty of guys from Shute Shield.
I think Gilmore if they go for an ozzie coach. An international could be anyone but whoever it is needs to be teflon-coated and pretty tough.

 

[Rob42]

HI Rob, I thought DC was supposed to be that guy and he certainly pulled plenty of guys from Shute Shield.
I think Gilmore if they go for an ozzie coach. An international could be anyone but whoever it is needs to be teflon-coated and pretty tough.

DC has been that guy, the whinging from the Shute Shield gys has been reduced at least 5% whilst he's been coach.

Gilmore doesn't need this shit sandwich at this point in his career, better for him to go overseas and learn more about club head coaching without the Sydney pressure. Unless he was HC beneath an experienced DoR.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Gilmore will also be given such a short leash by fans and others since he's been with them since 2020 as what seems the senior assistant coach.

I reckon he's a good chance of getting it due to cost and availability but I don't know if he can do it in the time he'll be allowed. Others will be given a settling in period. Also every chance he wants to move on to something else as well right now.

 

[Braveheart81]

So DC buys a roster at rats they win. Buys a roster at Gordon wins same at LA. In club spent well overs compared to opponents. Goes to Tahs can’t replicate same model what a surprise .

I don't think that is reasonable for Warringah and Gordon. They certainly recruited but I wouldn't have said they had outstanding squads relative to the other top teams.

He was astute with his recruitment and I don't think it is crazy to think that he could have also recruited well at the Waratahs. Some was good, some was average or bad.

LA was a different story and was clearly financed well above the rest of the league.

I think it sucks for Coleman. He clearly had to go after this season but likewise I think the hand he was dealt made it very difficult to succeed.

 

[Dan54]

@The Ghost of Raelene I think you pretty bang on. Funny, as Cheika was someone who used to piss me off with his attitude that showed on tv etc. But then as I have since said to a few people, I still have to admit he seems bloody good at coaching teams. Perhaps just needs good support etc.

 

[stillmissit]

@The Ghost of Raelene I think you pretty bang on. Funny, as Cheika was someone who used to piss me off with his attitude that showed on tv etc. But then as I have since said to a few people, I still have to admit he seems bloody good at coaching teams. Perhaps just needs good support etc.

Dan, unless he has changed or my memory has faded, he starts great, gets the guys all wound up and gets results but it doesn't last. He falls back because I ain't sure he is good enough when you compare him to other HC's around.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Dan, unless he has changed or my memory has faded, he starts great, gets the guys all wound up and gets results but it doesn't last. He falls back because I ain't sure he is good enough when you compare him to other HC's around.

Other than win Shute Shield, win the Celtic League, win the Heineken Cup, win Super Rugby, make a WC final, and win in NZ with Argentina, what has he ever done for us?

 

[Strewthcobber]

@The Ghost of Raelene I think you pretty bang on. Funny, as Cheika was someone who used to piss me off with his attitude that showed on tv etc. But then as I have since said to a few people, I still have to admit he seems bloody good at coaching teams. Perhaps just needs good support etc.

I think he just subscribes to the old "get the press to focus their attention on my crazy antics" method of coaching, taking the pressure off his players

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

If we had a side humming along and it was a coaching transition situation then Cheika is not the guy but this side is busted and seems to have no confidence what so ever. He's a culture shock and a guy that will squeeze the most from them. I think everyone understands he has a limited lifespan with a group before it's bothersome but nobody at NSWRU can say it would be worse than last on the ladder.

From a broader perspective as well I think he and Schmidt would have crossed paths enough that he wouldn't be a distraction or problem.

 

[Dan54]

Other than win Shute Shield, win the Celtic League, win the Heineken Cup, win Super Rugby, make a WC final, and win in NZ with Argentina, what has he ever done for us?

I understand what @stillmissit is saying, and as I said never thought much of him, but genuinely was impressed what he did particularly with Pumas.