Waratahs 2024

[WorkingClassRugger]

Not if Coleman is coaching.

Yep. 1 from 6 this season. I'm sure he's a good bloke but he's out of his depth at this level. I'm sick of the 'we were this close' bullshit. I've been a Tahs fans through thick (being disappoint) and thin. But enough is enough. Move him on. Sort out the headcase of an org. (which worries me seeing as RA now have the keys and aren't any better) out and start actually doing something to move the team and the game forward in NSW.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There's a lot of angst here and on the game thread about the Tahs' skill levels and performances and mostly it seems to be aimed at Coleman as the coach. Supporters and the rest of us should remember why the Tahs came to this situation. Apparently, they were pretty deep in debt some few years ago and as I recall the management at the time took a decision to cut back on player recruitment. There have been very few top class signings for the Tahs in recent times, Jorgo being an obvious exception. Consequently, the squad is not deep in talent and when injuries, suspensions etc hit, there is not much in reserve to call on. I don't think it is worthy to be hitting on Coleman when the squad has been weakened over a longer period than he has been in charge of the coaching.

With RA having taken over the side, the expectation would be that there will be some concentration now on improving the squad, as much as that will put all other franchises' noses out of joint. Maybe a new coach will be required too, but it is harsh to load all the responsibility for the current state of affairs on to Coleman's shoulders. Probably, no other coach available at the moment would improve the situation.

 

[Linerunner2023]

Sua'ali'i wont bring a whole lot next year
Still have real trouble defending at centre in the nrl
Also still lacks any kind of passing game, step or fend to break tackles
Seems to be a winger only
Runs and tackles hard, gives it his all but seems to be lacking other parts to his game atm
The roosters will benefit greater then the tahs
Next year could be
11. Pietch
12. Foketi
13. Kellaway
14. Sua'ali'i
15. Jorgo

 

[Doritos Day]

There's a lot of angst here and on the game thread about the Tahs' skill levels and performances and mostly it seems to be aimed at Coleman as the coach. Supporters and the rest of us should remember why the Tahs came to this situation. Apparently, they were pretty deep in debt some few years ago and as I recall the management at the time took a decision to cut back on player recruitment. There have been very few top class signings for the Tahs in recent times, Jorgo being an obvious exception. Consequently, the squad is not deep in talent and when injuries, suspensions etc hit, there is not much in reserve to call on. I don't think it is worthy to be hitting on Coleman when the squad has been weakened over a longer period than he has been in charge of the coaching.

With RA having taken over the side, the expectation would be that there will be some concentration now on improving the squad, as much as that will put all other franchises' noses out of joint. Maybe a new coach will be required too, but it is harsh to load all the responsibility for the current state of affairs on to Coleman's shoulders. Probably, no other coach available at the moment would improve the situation.

The current squad is miles better than what he inherited yet results are going backwards. Admittedly some of that is player development (Nawaqanitawase, Bell etc.) rather than recruitment. Whilst not deep the top line talent is very good and generally been available.

They are massively underperforming as a unit and this is in a year where the Kiwi teams are the weakest they have been in a while, the Rebels have every excuse to check out, and they haven't even played the best (or second, whatever) team in Aus yet.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm not pointing fingers at the individual performance of the players in the context, but it seemed to me that things seemed to go from pretty bad to downright awful when the mass replacements came on. There doesn't seem to be any flexibility in who stays on and who comes off, the ones having a reasonable outing came off and the ones having a Barry stayed out there. I understand the need for returning players like Foketi and Harrison to get some game time but wait until the game is in the bag, or put one of them on the wing instead of Pietsch. I notice the rule reviews from RA are going to look at reducing the number of subs, I'd dearly love a return to injury subs only and 15 minute capped HIA/blood subs. Still name a 23 but try and schedule an A game the next day or straight after if its an arvo game, or in this instance when the game is on a Friday name the 8 reserves in their club sides and if they don't get enough game time they play there. I know it's not an ideal scenario for professional players but in the case of pro rugby in Australia with a very limited number of opportunities we need to exercise our common sense a bit.

 

[pnut]

The current squad is miles better than what he inherited yet results are going backwards. Admittedly some of that is player development (Nawaqanitawase, Bell etc.) rather than recruitment. Whilst not deep the top line talent is very good and generally been available.

They are massively underperforming as a unit and this is in a year where the Kiwi teams are the weakest they have been in a while, the Rebels have every excuse to check out, and they haven't even played the best (or second, whatever) team in Aus yet.

Develop them in club. There are better club props running around than these academy players

 

[Steve_Grey]

Develop them in club. There are better club props running around than these academy players

There are better players in many positions (not just props).

 

[Jimmyjam]

Losing Bell and Gamble during the week didn't help..... It was always going to be challenging at scrum time when we start with Jack Barrett and Tom Ross in the front row.... seriously those boys were both penalised 2-3 times each in general play not even counting scrum penalties... Then have another Shute shield standard hooker for the entire second half... Tahs need to seriously recruit an international class TH and another 200cm+ Super Rugby. I love what Sinclair, Hanigan and FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner) bring, but they just aren't big/powerful enough to dominate at this level... They are all BR size, and not even particularly big for backrowers. We can have one of them in the back 5, but that's it. Then with Holz, Lambert, Botha, Fourie and Porecki also out, we were just too weak upfront against the rebels who probably have the most powerful front row depth in Oz where they can amazingly leave big Pone out of the match day squad and bring on TT from the bench....

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's a lot of angst here and on the game thread about the Tahs' skill levels and performances and mostly it seems to be aimed at Coleman as the coach. Supporters and the rest of us should remember why the Tahs came to this situation. Apparently, they were pretty deep in debt some few years ago and as I recall the management at the time took a decision to cut back on player recruitment. There have been very few top class signings for the Tahs in recent times, Jorgo being an obvious exception. Consequently, the squad is not deep in talent and when injuries, suspensions etc hit, there is not much in reserve to call on. I don't think it is worthy to be hitting on Coleman when the squad has been weakened over a longer period than he has been in charge of the coaching.

With RA having taken over the side, the expectation would be that there will be some concentration now on improving the squad, as much as that will put all other franchises' noses out of joint. Maybe a new coach will be required too, but it is harsh to load all the responsibility for the current state of affairs on to Coleman's shoulders. Probably, no other coach available at the moment would improve the situation.

It's gone beyond angst at this point.

 

[Froggy]

I have been holding fire re Coleman, but after that debacle I am thinking maybe he's not the guy. I won't blame him for the scrum, it's not his fault we are without Bell, Lambert, Porecki, Holtz and Botha, resulting in us playing Shute Shield and U20's front rowers.
However, two issues particularly stand out for me, being the failure of our crucial 9/10 pairing to work, which is fundemental to any side, and the lack of an obvious purpose, stupid mistakes and an unbelievable number of penalties, all of which come down to leadership, both on and off the field.
Surely Colemen can see the issues at 9/10! Gordon as an individual is a talented footballer, and does some spectacular things due to his alertness to what's going on, but has absolutely no ability to link with or set up the players around him. He seems to be the one dictating play, but has no feel at all for that job. Further, the lack of discipline and direction throughout the team indicates to me a lack of leadership.
Edmed is a tough little guy who tries hard, but his constant and seemingly aimless kicking doesn't appear to have any plan behind it. Kicking in rugby is a wonderful weapon, but it must be with a clear purpose in mind, not just because you can't think what else to do. He also offers no threat at all in attack.
Contrast that with the play by Grant to create the Gleeson try, where he stepped of the side of the ruck and drew the pillar defender to deliver Gleeson a clear passage. Gordon would have tried to score that himself. Likewise look at the instant attacking threat posed by Harrison, he was more dangerous than Edmed has looked in five games. Sure he was rusty, but I think we can excuse that after two years out with injury.
We have two other 9's on Grant and Wilson, and two other 10's in Harrison and Bowen, yet we follow what purportedly was Einstein's definition of stupidity, continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. As to a new captain, Bell and Holloway are two names that come to mind, and of course Porecki when he returns.
There are other issues of course, but I see these as the most glaring.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Yep. 1 from 6 this season. I'm sure he's a good bloke but he's out of his depth at this level. I'm sick of the 'we were this close' bullshit. I've been a Tahs fans through thick (being disappoint) and thin. But enough is enough. Move him on. Sort out the headcase of an org. (which worries me seeing as RA now have the keys and aren't any better) out and start actually doing something to move the team and the game forward in NSW.

Coleman needs to bite the bullet and clean the staff out from under him. Whittaker yes a gutsy player but has really added nothing as a coach, Pauli similar, as for the S&C what a disaster over the past 2 years. From a recruitment perspective there is a lot more talent than what is continually served up from Eastern Sydney, the naming of the 2 new players on the weekend showed exactly where the coaches mindset is, after all they are the NSW Waratahs !!

 

[Agent]

I have been holding fire re Coleman, but after that debacle I am thinking maybe he's not the guy. I won't blame him for the scrum, it's not his fault we are without Bell, Lambert, Porecki, Holtz and Botha, resulting in us playing Shute Shield and U20's front rowers.
However, two issues particularly stand out for me, being the failure of our crucial 9/10 pairing to work, which is fundemental to any side, and the lack of an obvious purpose, stupid mistakes and an unbelievable number of penalties, all of which come down to leadership, both on and off the field.
Surely Colemen can see the issues at 9/10! Gordon as an individual is a talented footballer, and does some spectacular things due to his alertness to what's going on, but has absolutely no ability to link with or set up the players around him. He seems to be the one dictating play, but has no feel at all for that job. Further, the lack of discipline and direction throughout the team indicates to me a lack of leadership.
Edmed is a tough little guy who tries hard, but his constant and seemingly aimless kicking doesn't appear to have any plan behind it. Kicking in rugby is a wonderful weapon, but it must be with a clear purpose in mind, not just because you can't think what else to do. He also offers no threat at all in attack.
Contrast that with the play by Grant to create the Gleeson try, where he stepped of the side of the ruck and drew the pillar defender to deliver Gleeson a clear passage. Gordon would have tried to score that himself. Likewise look at the instant attacking threat posed by Harrison, he was more dangerous than Edmed has looked in five games. Sure he was rusty, but I think we can excuse that after two years out with injury.
We have two other 9's on Grant and Wilson, and two other 10's in Harrison and Bowen, yet we follow what purportedly was Einstein's definition of stupidity, continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. As to a new captain, Bell and Holloway are two names that come to mind, and of course Porecki when he returns.
There are other issues of course, but I see these as the most glaring.

Agree - Edmed kicking options are often pointless and serving the ball back to the opposition in attacking positions. Agree - Gordon is good but overplays his hand. Maybe he has too much on his plate with captaincy etc. Agree - Bell and Holloway are natural leaders and would be great captains but think Holloway is more likely to be an 80 minute option so give him the armband.

 

[Adam84]

I missed this weeks game, but comments about Edmed's kicking done surprise me, i mentioned it after the first few games this season but it's just not good enough for Super Rugby, doesn't have enough distance and accuracy seems to be lacking. He might do well to play as a 2nd playmaker at inside centre and bring another 5/8 in who has a better kicking game

 

[pnut]

Coleman needs to bite the bullet and clean the staff out from under him. Whittaker yes a gutsy player but has really added nothing as a coach, Pauli similar, as for the S&C what a disaster over the past 2 years. From a recruitment perspective there is a lot more talent than what is continually served up from Eastern Sydney, the naming of the 2 new players on the weekend showed exactly where the coaches mindset is, after all they are the NSW Waratahs !!

Spot on

 

[pnut]

I missed this weeks game, but comments about Edmed's kicking done surprise me, i mentioned it after the first few games this season but it's just not good enough for Super Rugby, doesn't have enough distance and accuracy seems to be lacking. He might do well to play as a 2nd playmaker at inside centre and bring another 5/8 in who has a better kicking game

Not a 12 at the wildest stretch. However understand your logic. Just not the bloke for that role

 

[Froggy]

He actually has played a bit of 12. Having said that, I would rate Foketi, Walton and Tuipolotu all ahead of hm at 12.

 

[eastman]

I watched Gordon pretty closely over the weekend to see the extent that he ‘overplays his hand’ and for the first 30 minutes at least he played no differently to any other halfback in this competition. He connected directly with Edmed plenty of times and the structure was typical if not simple.

What was more apparent is that Edmed is the handbrake. He plays tough and probably trains well but directing the team around the field and picking the right options doesn’t come naturally to him. He’s had plenty of opportunity now and its time to look at other options.

 

[Hogan]

I watched Gordon pretty closely over the weekend to see the extent that he ‘overplays his hand’ and for the first 30 minutes at least he played no differently to any other halfback in this competition. He connected directly with Edmed plenty of times and the structure was typical if not simple.

What was more apparent is that Edmed is the handbrake. He plays tough and probably trains well but directing the team around the field and picking the right options doesn’t come naturally to him. He’s had plenty of opportunity now and its time to look at other options.

‘Handbrake’ Edmed was being tipped by many on this forum to be the Wallabies 10 this year after one good performance against an understrength Crusaders. Interesting how quickly things change.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Coleman needs to bite the bullet and clean the staff out from under him. Whittaker yes a gutsy player but has really added nothing as a coach, Pauli similar, as for the S&C what a disaster over the past 2 years. From a recruitment perspective there is a lot more talent than what is continually served up from Eastern Sydney, the naming of the 2 new players on the weekend showed exactly where the coaches mindset is, after all they are the NSW Waratahs !!

Completely agree. Especially around the coaches. Whittaker has been there for ages now and there has been no development amongst 9s,10s or his area of responsibility. Pauli... Never got it at the time and seemed like a job for a fellow Shute Shield buddy who I'm sure came at the right price with a pretty bare coaching resume. I also haven't seen any of the pack kick on or a new playing shape emerge as a pack like the Reds turning the maul into a weapon this year.

The Tahs play like a Club side. It's simple crash balls on repeat and then get it to someone to hopefully do something. In Club games people fall off tackles or can't sustain phases of defence but at this level it just gets eaten up until we drop the ball.

 

[Braveheart81]

The biggest issue the Tahs have with Edmed currently is that he suits a certain gameplan and we're trying to do something very different.

The way we played against the Crusaders was far closer to how we should be playing with him where he carries a lot more and we play a lot more direct.

We've moved away from that too far, are spreading the ball wide at every opportunity particularly when it isn't on and everything is falling apart.

The loss of structure at many points against the Rebels was just atrocious. One of the worst couple of Waratahs performances I've seen in the last 15 years.