Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Before we get to that: which school did he go to?
Waratahs 2024
- Thread starter RugbyReg
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Before we get to that: which school did he go to?
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
This comment is why Rugby is on the decline. Its the pathways that are broken and not working and those who are in charge of selection should be held accountable just like the coach will be. The best player should always be selected not the best prospect. The Tahs selected him because they had no one else in there system and are not prepared to think out of the box. Hence the position we are in at NSW.
Adam84
Rod McCall (65)
Not really, this happens in every major code(NRL/AFL/HAL) in Australia, where a younger player with a higher ceiling is contracted and brought into the squad over an older player with less potential.
All clubs and codes also have enterprise agreements, salary caps and financial implications which limit them from selecting players outside the squads.
Arguably the problem for Australian Super Rugby is that squad depth isn’t deep enough.
Limitations on squad sizes($$$) means clubs have to juggle sacrificing potential versus seasons players.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
That, and no real pro or semi-pro comp below supper means most of the players actively pushing for a contract a 23 or younger. Once they finish uni/training and get a start on their actual careers there's not as much time and energy to devote to the rugby.
It's also probably not helped by Super rugby starting so much earlier then Shute Shield/Hospitals Cup these days. It's easier to call in a good solid club player when they're a month or two into the season with a solid base of match fitness under them. When club isn't really going yet you have to focus on the guys in pathways and pro-programs as the only options ready to go.
eastman
John Solomon (38)
Incorrect- the Waratahs aren’t a representative side; they are a professional franchise. They selected their seventh string prop to play 20 minutes against the Melbourne Rebels- let’s not get too hysterical.
Correct we don't have the $$$ to run the same pathways as NRL/AFL etc so our pathways need to include Shute Shield otherwise you have a limited player pool to call upon. Pathway players should dominate at shute shield comps and that often dose not happen.
Why should they?
Everyone agrees that the 20 year old prop who has barely played any games at an adult level is going to get beaten at scrumtime by a 30 year old with a ton of experience. No one is giving the 20 year old a professional contract because they think they're better than the 30 year old. They're given a contract because they are among the best of their age cohort and picked as someone with significant potential to develop in the future.
This is how professional sport works. I don't understand why so many people have an issue with this.
You don't have an option to only sign the best players right now and expect that the best young players will just play Shute Shield for the next few years until you're ready to sign them to a contract. They will just take up an opportunity elsewhere.
The Ghost of Raelene
David Codey (61)
Then the same people scream that we lose our home grown talent....
I'm sure the teams would like to have the resources to have squads of 45+ but we don't.
I'm sure the teams would like to have the resources to have squads of 45+ but we don't.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
The other thing that is relevant with Props - it is very obvious when a prop gets towelled up in a scrum. What is less obvious is when they get exposed in defence or miss a clear out.
A lot of the club props which are great in scrums don’t always have the work around the park to make it at top level. And whilst we all love to say you need to pick props for their ability to scrum and everything else is a bonus, that’s not how pro rugby works (you only need to look at all the stick Tupou is copping).
A lot of the club props which are great in scrums don’t always have the work around the park to make it at top level. And whilst we all love to say you need to pick props for their ability to scrum and everything else is a bonus, that’s not how pro rugby works (you only need to look at all the stick Tupou is copping).
DropGoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
No nrl clubs have many feeder clubs who give constant opportunities for players in lower grades to reach the NRL.. happens all the time … union your basically washed up if your not in super rugby academy by 19
Because he is in the program and we have run out of other choices. I don't think it was anyone's plans that he would being playing any minutes this year, but to drag a club prop with no fitness base?
I would imagine if Bell's prognosis is as dire as expected they will bring in someone with some level of pro base
I would have thought Shute Shield Grade Teams and Colts teams would be a feeder for the Tahs. An opportunity to watch players from their pathway programs and not in their pathway in a suitable game situation.
What you are saying is if they are not in the academy and pathway program they will never get an opportunity even if they perform better in a game.
The game is quickly running out of money and your solution is carry on, the system is working well. We are producing great front rowers.
Adam84
Rod McCall (65)
It’s extremely rare that a player makes their NRL debut without being in one of the NRL academies or in a supplementary list from the moment they leave school these days, or at least by the age they’re 19. Outside of the Top 30, NRL clubs also carry a supplementary player list of up to 10 players earning about $65k each, essentially an academy group who play for in these ‘feeder clubs’, these players cant be picked for NRL except for circumstance around injuries.
Which isn’t a whole lot different to what rugby does however NSWRL & QRL are at higher levels of professionalism then SS/QPR, rugby just cant afford as many or pay as much. If Australian Super Rugby teams had the comparative squad sizes as to what the NRL has, then each Australia Super Rugby team would have a squad of 54 contracted players, which is about 20 more players then they currently have.
Of course they watch players playing Shute Shield and Colts to gauge how good they are. So does every other Australian team.
This concept that the Waratahs can just leave players in the Shute Shield until they are ready to play Super Rugby doesn't bare out in reality. Players will move for opportunity and if someone else is offering to make them a full time professional they'll take it.
I am not saying that players not in the academy and pathway programs will never get a shot. I'm saying that the most talented youngsters get signed up sooner to secure their services and likewise they aren't competing for the same roster spots.
Jack Barrett is effectively the Waratahs 8th best prop behind Bell, Johnson-Holmes, Stringer-Thompson, Lambert, Botha, Ross and Holz. In a normal season he would never be playing Super Rugby this year. He's signed on the basis of youth and potential and the expectation that he will become a key player in the future.
DropGoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
Loads of players moves up from NSW cup to the nrl all the time ..what r u on about …
lol I love how you guys will defend ur terrible feeder system within a inch of ur life its hilarious.. no one wonder rugby is dead in this country …
A lot of those players already have contracts with the NRL team.
The NSW Cup is a combination of players fully contracted to an NRL team on either a top 30 contract or a development contract (which have different salary cap rules) and players who are essentially playing for beer money.
We're not defending rugby's feeder system, merely explaining the concept of professional sporting teams to people who seemingly have no idea how they work.
wamberal99
Jim Clark (26)
Nothing good.
DropGoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
Your jabs are cute but your just going around in circles ..
yeah we know mate , there’s no pro club comp and only 4 super rugby teams blah blah …. and guess what else you forgot ? … A whole lot of solid talent that either goes to league (because theyre smart) or bizarrely plays for the love of the game at club level , with no hope of ever moving up a tier ..
So yeah that the EXACT reason rugby is fucked in the country … it based on purely on hype at the schoolboy level .. and not merit .. which is why so many schoolboy “prodigies” in rugby become busts, and then u have no depth …cause your “depth” has been ignored playing club rugby for last 5 years or quit…. So you just wait for the next “golden child” of schoolboy rugby to come and solve all your problems.
You’ve got no answers, Just more smarmy “we know best attitude” , it just smacks Australian rugby… hey, you should apply for a position on the Waratahs board, or maybe you’re on it already